Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Macro World Resource
  

FM Forums | Macro World | Join Upload & Sell

  

Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.

  
 
theHUN
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


Hi folks,

I am a casual macro shooter (among many other things) and I am currently using a Canon 180 mm macro (sometimes with a 2x extender) on an A7R3. I like the 180 mm for the long working distance, and I have the extender because I wanted to go beyond 1x.

Of course, I am now a bit curious about perhaps going to 5x, and I was wondering what my options are. I am brand agnostic, and I do not mind adapting or even tinkering. That said, I have zero interest in focus stacking, and I would like to err on the side of having too much working distance (rather than too little) as I like to shoot live insects (out in the field, using either a tripod or while resting the camera on something steady). I think this rules out the high mag macro lenses with <60 mm focal length. But that still leaves many options: the MP-E, the Laowa 85 mm 2x (+ extender and/or tubes), reverse lens(es), microscope objectives mounted to tube lenses, ... .

In an effort to make apples-to-apples comparisons, let's assume I wanted to shoot at 3x. How would the alternatives compare to my existing Canon 180 mm (+another 1.4x extender or an extension tube)? Am I making a massive mistake by prioritizing working distance?

I would appreciate any input from people who have gone down this path.



Sep 15, 2022 at 09:20 PM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


Why 5:1? What do you plan to use this on?

I regularly shoot at 5:1 (10:1 35mm equivalent) but that is with fungi and slime moulds, where working distance is not an issue, provided you can get light onto the subject.

3:1 is probably adequate for most insects.

Harold



Sep 16, 2022 at 12:00 PM
LordV
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


You could use an add on raynox diopter (dcr-250) with a 72 to 67mm step down filter ring (to fit the raynox adapter) and get around 2.5 :1 with your 180mm lens at minimum focus. Whatever you do to get higher mag you will end up with very little distance between the end of the lens and the subject but with tiny subjects this is often not a problem.

Brian V.



Sep 16, 2022 at 01:20 PM
theHUN
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


e6filmuser wrote:
Why 5:1? What do you plan to use this on?


For the moment I can only say that I want to explore the world at 3:1 while having the option of going to 5:1. Perhaps I'll be drawn to fungi, maybe smaller insects, maybe something else completely.

LordV wrote:
Whatever you do to get higher mag you will end up with very little distance between the end of the lens and the subject ...


But with the 180 mm + 2x + 1.4 extenders, the working distance at 3.4:1 will be far more than with the 65 mm MP-E at the same 3.4:1. I think the main tradeoff will be size/weight and DOF. Is that true?

I was initially concerned about the image quality of the MP-E, but I see plenty of stunning images which makes me think that lesser images are mostly due to user error/impatience, so I am inclined to pick up a used copy.



Sep 16, 2022 at 02:55 PM
LordV
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


theHUN wrote:
But with the 180 mm + 2x + 1.4 extenders, the working distance at 3.4:1 will be far more than with the 65 mm MP-E at the same 3.4:1. I think the main tradeoff will be size/weight and DOF. Is that true?

I was initially concerned about the image quality of the MP-E, but I see plenty of stunning images which makes me think that lesser images are mostly due to user error/impatience, so I am inclined to pick up a used copy.


The DOF at the same effective aperture and magnification with be the same no matter how you achieve the magnification.
The MPE-65 is a wonderful lens but takes a lot of practice to use at higher magnifications and of course you will need a flash light source.

Brian V.




Sep 17, 2022 at 05:09 AM
theHUN
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


LordV wrote:
The MPE-65 is a wonderful lens but takes a lot of practice to use at higher magnifications and of course you will need a flash light source.


I do not mind steep learning curves if the results are worth it. Flash (and diffusers) do not intimidate me as I am already using them with my existing macro setup. So it appears the MP-E is the way to go as I don't see any attractive alternatives.



Sep 17, 2022 at 08:55 AM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


theHUN wrote:
I do not mind steep learning curves if the results are worth it. Flash (and diffusers) do not intimidate me as I am already using them with my existing macro setup. So it appears the MP-E is the way to go as I don't see any attractive alternatives.


I can't use the MPE because I don't use Canon.

I use the Laowa 25mm 2.5 to 5x. It is half the cost of the MPE and has nearly twice the closest working distance. It is fully manual.

Harold



Sep 17, 2022 at 09:22 AM
theHUN
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


e6filmuser wrote:
I can't use the MPE because I don't use Canon.

I use the Laowa 25mm 2.5 to 5x. It is half the cost of the MPE and has nearly twice the closest working distance. It is fully manual.

Harold


At 5x, the Canon has 41 mm working distance vs. 40 mm for the Laowa. That's not a meaningful advantage for Canon, but it is not a 2x advantage for the Laowa. Or is working distance measured from the front of the lens, and since the Canon is recessed it results in an advantage in effective working distance for the Laowa?



Sep 17, 2022 at 12:21 PM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


theHUN wrote:
At 5x, the Canon has 41 mm working distance vs. 40 mm for the Laowa. That's not a meaningful advantage for Canon, but it is not a 2x advantage for the Laowa. Or is working distance measured from the front of the lens, and since the Canon is recessed it results in an advantage in effective working distance for the Laowa?


Apologies. My error. I quoted the minimum focusing distance. Anyway I can't say about the MPE but the Laowa has no recess whatsoever, although I would expect working distance to be from the front of the lens barrel.

The MPE is quite a fat lens, as are many macro lenses, but the Laowa has a narrow front, making lighting easier and also access to subjects such as small fungi on convex surfaces, such as the tops of logs, often better (you can get closer).

Harold




Sep 17, 2022 at 12:49 PM
theHUN
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.


e6filmuser wrote:
Apologies. My error. I quoted the minimum focusing distance. Anyway I can't say about the MPE but the Laowa has no recess whatsoever, although I would expect working distance to be from the front of the lens barrel.

The MPE is quite a fat lens, as are many macro lenses, but the Laowa has a narrow front, making lighting easier and also access to subjects such as small fungi on convex surfaces, such as the tops of logs, often better (you can get closer).

Harold



I read a couple of comparisons between the two lenses, and I think I am now a Laowa convert.

Thanks for the input.



Sep 17, 2022 at 02:02 PM
theHUN
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Newbie looking for input on reaching 5:1.



After watching this video, I ended up with a second hand Laowa. Zero regrets so far.






Sep 23, 2022 at 01:34 PM







FM Forums | Macro World | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username      Reset password