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Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?

  
 
rob_ww
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


I moved from Leica to Sony about six months ago. When I purchased the A7R4 I added the Sony 24/2.8G as a light walk-around lens. The combo works very well in itself, and the 24G is a sharp, full-featured modern lens. But I don't reach for it often. For some reason I find the photos a bit 'hard' and unappealing.

In the meantime I came across the Batis range while resarching 18mm lenses (with assistance on this site, thank you). I noticed the Batis 25mm and have become tempted to replace the 24G with it. Or would that be a step back in history? Most of the reviews are six or seven years old and a lot has changed in the meantime.

Would appreciate any relevant experiences or suggestions. Many thanks, Robert



Sep 15, 2022 at 06:36 AM
Alan Parker
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


The 25 Batis is still highly regarded, but with the 24GM in the same price range it's generally harder to recommend unless you can find a good second hand deal. They have come down a lot in price.


Sep 15, 2022 at 06:44 AM
QuietOC
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


The background rendering of the 24 G is about the worst of the native options. I have no experience with the Batis. About the time I was ready to buy one several cheaper options were released. One mistake I made was adapting the A-mount Distagon 24mm F2 ZA SSM.

The Samyang 24mm F1.8 is just as sharp as the 24 G, but has lovely background rendering.

The Sigma 24mm F2 has been on sale at Adorama. I am somewhat tempted because I have the 35/2, 45/2.8, and 65/2. But there is nothing I dislike about Samyang.

The Tamron 24mm F2.8 I bought had some decentering. I gave them the opportunity to fix it, but they did not.

Edited on Sep 08, 2023 at 05:28 PM · View previous versions



Sep 15, 2022 at 06:51 AM
chiron
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


rob_ww wrote:
I moved from Leica to Sony about six months ago. When I purchased the A7R4 I added the Sony 24/2.8G as a light walk-around lens. The combo works very well in itself, and the 24G is a sharp, full-featured modern lens. But I don't reach for it often. For some reason I find the photos a bit 'hard' and unappealing.

In the meantime I came across the Batis range while resarching 18mm lenses (with assistance on this site, thank you). I noticed the Batis 25mm and have become tempted to replace the 24G with it. Or would that be a
...Show more

This is not quite your comparison, but may be helpful. At the moment, I own both the Batis 25mm and the Sony 24mm 1.4 GM (not the 2.8), which is clearly redundant and unnecessary. Both are very fine lenses. However, at least lately, I often find that I prefer the over-all look of images from the Batis, I think because of the Batis's colors and contrast. Also, there is a quality to edges on Batis lenses that seems to make for a smooth roll-off of edges that I like. Just slightly painterly. Zeiss talks about this quality of the lenses as what they call "rounded sharpness." I think it is a very smooth, fine-grained color and contrast transition. One also sees it in the Loxia lenses, for example in a comparison of the Loxia and Voigtlander 21mm lenses. The Loxia looks smoother and more appealing to me--less bite and more grace. These are qualities that are hard to measure in a review, so I think they get underplayed by reviewers in preference to more easily observed qualities, like characteristics of bokeh balls. Of course, some people prefer images with more bite, which is obviously fine. Sometimes I do also. But overall, I am liking the Batis and its images more.



Sep 15, 2022 at 08:26 AM
guyharrison
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


For optical performance and rendering I would give the edge to the Batis. Really, it is everything you could want in terms of sharpness, contrast and microcontrast, and color rendering. But, I have a particular liking for Zeiss rendering and my prime set is all 5 of the Batis lenses.

Having rented one, I will say the 24 1.4 GM is not far behind but has a different "look", and also gives the extra speed (and some extra weight). Really, I would base my choice on whether you simply must have the extra stop of speed. If you can live with f 2, then shop around for a used Batis (I got a "like new" one on the forum here for $750--no brainer!).

My use case is landscape, astro landscape, travel/architecture. So, optical quality across the frame and at smaller f-stops is important for me, and bokeh and background blur much less important. So, consider my comments from that point of view. BTW, the Batis is excellent wide open and a great astro landscape lens.



Sep 15, 2022 at 09:02 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


There have been some QA issues with Batis 25, considered the weakest of the Batis line of lenses. Not to say good copies aren't around, but you may or may not be satisfied.

The Loxia 25 is probably the best of its type, going back to the Contax Zeiss 25mm SLR lenses. If manual focus isn't an issue, try the Loxia first.

I personally own the Loxia 25 and find it the best of the system (slightly edging out the Loxia 21). I also still own the impressive ZE 25/2, another fine (but larger, and heavier) Zeiss MF lens. The Loxia is better than the ZE in everything but the f/2.0-2.4 aperture range.

I've been eyeing the Batis 25 myself, liking the Batis 18 so much. The main thing deterring me if my first experience with a friends brand new Batis 25 I tried and found out of whack and had to have sent back immediately (through Samy's Pasadena) to Zeiss for adjustment. A bit of a personal peeve, but still interested an AF Zeiss 25!



Sep 15, 2022 at 09:04 AM
rob_ww
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


Thanks. Unfortunately MF is not realistic for me. One of the reasons I switched from Leica M was to gain a good AF system as my ability to do MF deteriorated somewhat.


Sep 15, 2022 at 09:25 AM
SoundHound
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


The SONY 28 is a.24mm width which is cropped to 28mm for better edges. A good utility lens but the Zeiss is much better especially for landscape or other full frame use. It is large with itís 82mm filter but very lightweight.


Sep 15, 2022 at 10:44 AM
Dave Sanders
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


guyharrison wrote:
For optical performance and rendering I would give the edge to the Batis. Really, it is everything you could want in terms of sharpness, contrast and microcontrast, and color rendering. But, I have a particular liking for Zeiss rendering and my prime set is all 5 of the Batis lenses.

Having rented one, I will say the 24 1.4 GM is not far behind but has a different "look", and also gives the extra speed (and some extra weight). Really, I would base my choice on whether you simply must have the extra stop of speed. If you can live with
...Show more

I had the 24GM, Batis 25 and still have the Loxia 25. The Loxia is the best if landscapes are your game; sharper, better contrast. The best 24/25 in existence, IMO.

My experience with the GM and the Batis is different from yours; my testing echoes all of the reviews online: the GM is sharper, even wide open, has lower CA and much better bokeh.

To quote the review on Phillip Reeve:

When I first used the GM I would not have known it was a little larger and heavier than the Batis if I hadnít looked at the specs. This is remarkable, a full stop faster and yet a very similar form factor. The GM is as sharp wide open as the Batis is stopped down a little; so the GM at f1.4 is sharper than Batis at f2. And the bokeh of the GM is much nicer both wide open and f2 than the Batis, and perhaps a touch better at other apertures.

I have seen online complaints about flare and CA on the GM: but again both are considerably better, in my experience than the Batis!



Sep 15, 2022 at 11:06 AM
maestrofilms
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


I had the Batis for a couple years and used it extensively. Loved it.
Then I bought a GM, and did a comparison. I immediately sold the Batis.
A year later, I was feeling nostalgic for the Batis, so I bought another one.
I did another comparison with the GM, and immediately sold the second Batis.

These days I'm using the Samyang 24 1.8 because it is shockingly good and I don't use a 24 prime that often. If I did I would still have the GM.



Sep 15, 2022 at 11:18 AM
 


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tsdevine
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?



Is the GM sharper than the Batis in the corners when you shoot stopped down?

Dave Sanders wrote:
I had the 24GM, Batis 25 and still have the Loxia 25. The Loxia is the best if landscapes are your game; sharper, better contrast. The best 24/25 in existence, IMO.

My experience with the GM and the Batis is different from yours; my testing echoes all of the reviews online: the GM is sharper, even wide open, has lower CA and much better bokeh.

To quote the review on Phillip Reeve:

When I first used the GM I would not have known it was a little larger and heavier than the Batis if I hadnít looked at the specs.
...Show more



Sep 15, 2022 at 11:24 AM
Erichimedes
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


chiron wrote:
This is not quite your comparison, but may be helpful. At the moment, I own both the Batis 25mm and the Sony 24mm 1.4 GM (not the 2.8), which is clearly redundant and unnecessary. Both are very fine lenses. However, at least lately, I often find that I prefer the over-all look of images from the Batis, I think because of the Batis's colors and contrast. Also, there is a quality to edges on Batis lenses that seems to make for a smooth roll-off of edges that I like. Just slightly painterly. Zeiss talks about this quality of the lenses
...Show more

I'm also following this thread because I keep looping around to thinking about the Batis 25mm. This is great info, and makes sense. Thanks for posting this. The Batis 25 seems like a great deal for what they go for used these days.



Sep 15, 2022 at 11:41 AM
Dave Sanders
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


tsdevine wrote:
Is the GM sharper than the Batis in the corners when you shoot stopped down?



Good question. I'm not sure. The Loxia is better than both and was always going to hold the tile of 'landscape lens' for me, so I never looked specifically at the GM vs. the Batis. I'd guess that the extreme corners of the Batis and GM equal out. In reality, almost all of the good lenses for Sony are very sharp at landscape apertures, so things like ergonomics, build, AF, bokeh, CA, etc. will be things to consider to make a decision.



Sep 15, 2022 at 11:52 AM
PaulMoorePhoto
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


I really like my little Sigma I-series 24mm f/3.5. It doesnít get much love on this forum because itís only f/3.5 but itís sharp and I love the rendering. The close focus ability makes it possible to get some very nice bokeh too. Itís also tiny and has an aperture ring so handling is great.


Sep 15, 2022 at 11:55 AM
genjy
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


That's just how it is when your WA lens is 2.8. When you step back to shoot and everything is in focus, then the rendering is pretty meh. It was the same with my Zeiss 35 2.8 (sold it for a 35 1.4 GM).

To me, it's not really about Zeiss vs SY or whatever, but more about how much separation between the subject and the background. IMO, find a sharp and fast wide angle.

Edited on Sep 15, 2022 at 12:06 PM · View previous versions



Sep 15, 2022 at 12:05 PM
Dave Sanders
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


PaulMoorePhoto wrote:
I really like my little Sigma I-series 24mm f/3.5. It doesnít get much love on this forum because itís only f/3.5 but itís sharp and I love the rendering. The close focus ability makes it possible to get some very nice bokeh too. Itís also tiny and has an aperture ring so handling is great.


Yes, I've thought that it would be an interesting lens...minimal distortion too, if my memory of Fred's review is correct. I think the Sigma f/2 is nice as well, and likely their 1.4. Not a lot of missteps in 24mm land, optically speaking, so I think it's other aspects of the lens that will be the deciding factors.



Sep 15, 2022 at 12:06 PM
molson
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


rob_ww wrote:
When I purchased the A7R4 I added the Sony 24/2.8G as a light walk-around lens. The combo works very well in itself, and the 24G is a sharp, full-featured modern lens.


If you find the 24G sharp on an A7R IV you're not setting a very high bar, from my experience. The Batis 25 is better, and as others have mentioned already, the Zeiss Loxia 25 and Sony 24 GM are much better.



Sep 15, 2022 at 12:13 PM
rob_ww
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


chiron wrote:
This is not quite your comparison, but may be helpful. At the moment, I own both the Batis 25mm and the Sony 24mm 1.4 GM (not the 2.8), which is clearly redundant and unnecessary. Both are very fine lenses. However, at least lately, I often find that I prefer the over-all look of images from the Batis, I think because of the Batis's colors and contrast. Also, there is a quality to edges on Batis lenses that seems to make for a smooth roll-off of edges that I like. Just slightly painterly.


Thank you. Actually, this is really helpful. I am still learning about the range of Sony E-mount lenses and wondering about the Zeiss in particular. Recently I purchased the Zeiss 55/1.8 ZA and really find the images attractive. My friends said words to the effect of, "aha, that is the look we are more familiar with from your Leica photos" and I agree, although I cannot say why -- I just do not have the words to express it, and even good reviewers seem to follow a formula which does not identify the actual differences lenses can create, although we all know lens designers work quite hard to make the right design trade-offs.



Sep 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM
rob_ww
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


molson wrote:
If you find the 24G sharp on an A7R IV you're not setting a very high bar, from my experience. The Batis 25 is better, and as others have mentioned already, the Zeiss Loxia 25 and Sony 24 GM are much better.


Quite right. I was being brief. I wonder if there is too much edge contrast which is destroying the finer gradations. And as a former Leica photographer I am wary of coming to this forum and saying I am looking for the Leica 'magic'. I actually think in recent years Leica have lost their magic touch. I owned the SL50/2.0 for example and it just was not very good, despite the rave reviews. Taken as a set my Sony photographs over the last six months have been very pleasing, and easily compete with anything that went before.



Sep 15, 2022 at 01:01 PM
rob_ww
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Zeiss Batis 25mm or more modern 24mm?


Quick update. I decided to order a Batis 25 and see for myself how well the Batis lenses perform. I ordered a pre-owned one from Park Cameras in London. "Like New" at a good price, with a return period if not satisfied.

If the Batis 25 makes an impression the Batis 18 will be next. If not, next step is to try the Sammy 18, and check out the Sigma 24/2.0.

Will post an update in a couple of weeks. Thanks again!



Sep 16, 2022 at 09:11 AM
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