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Archive 2022 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?

  
 
RustyBug
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


Since Macs are not suited to intermittent upgrades like PC's can be, how long do you expect your Mac to be your main rig, until you feel compelled to upgrade your Mac again.

In other words, how many years do you tend to keep your current Mac (upgrade cycle)?

Mostly curious about cycle expectations for the newer M1 chip Macbooks, but applies to all.




Sep 03, 2022 at 08:45 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


I would replace a desktop at √2x performance intervals. A laptop would be replaced less frequently, maybe at 2x performance intervals. Of course upgrade cycles may need to be revised based on compatibility issues. I keep some older computers for light duty or older software/hardware needs.

EBH



Sep 03, 2022 at 09:24 AM
sbay
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


Still have a 2017 iMac although I did max ram. My laptop (m1 pro) is quite a bit faster but I haven't bothered moving that to be my main machine.

In that time, my RAWs went 50% bigger (42mp to 60mp). Still seems to be fine.



Sep 03, 2022 at 10:13 AM
castlekeeper01
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


Apparently it's about 5 years for me, circumstances notwithstanding. I'm on my sixth primary device since the early 90's.

The driving factor in each of the replacements was software compatibility. Operating systems and apps have been increasingly large and complex.

Storage is another matter. I have 15 year old backup hard drives that continue to perform on an as-needed basis. With the emergence of cloud storage, cloud file sharing, and cloud computing I find less need for a large on board drive, which on earlier models was a bottleneck.



Sep 03, 2022 at 10:15 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


Kent - I think the answer is - it depends. I stretched out my MacBook Pro cycle to about ten years to wait for the new M1's, but M1 and M2 are also game changers in terms of performance increase and will convince many to upgrade sooner than they might have otherwise. I also have a five year old iMac that feel like it's getting on in years and will probably be replaced in the next year, but that's about a $10K proposition, as I'd also have to totally upgrade a couple of peripheral hard drive enclosures as well. I'm still running one 2011 MBP that will boot into two older operating systems, one to run one specific cataloging program and also back into OS 10.6.8 to operate my ancient Gretag MacBeth Spectrolino for measuring profile targets. And then finally, I have still running on a regular basis a Dual Mirro Door G5 Mac tower that is twenty-two or twenty-three years old and still running Mac OS 9.2.2 which is what's required to operate the drum scanner, which was built in '94 and is still going strong. So, yeah, the answer is still - it depends.


Sep 03, 2022 at 11:23 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


^ IIRC the PowerMac MDD was the G4 chip. The G5 was only in the 'cheese grater' tower.

Kent, for me it was roughly 3-4 years in the 2000s, with the last major round being in 2010-2011. For various reasons, that surprisingly held me through to the present reasonably well. Last week I picked up a 14" MBP M1 Pro to be a 'do it all' stop-gap solution. Eventually I may get a Studio or an iMac if it is ever released in SoC configurations comparable to the Studio.

I feel for me, Apple computer upgrades have gone similarly to digital camera upgrades. In the 2000s there were significant camera improvements in what seemed like shorter intervals that also benefitted from faster computers. But in the 2010s I didn't have much need to go beyond 24MP and the circa 2010 hardware handled that OK. As mentioned in the other thread, the tipping point for me is current software incompatibility with hardware that old, whenever I next upgrade cameras. Like Peter, I will keep my old iMac and an old 2011 MBP to run 10.6.8 for a couple specific programs.

Things could change for me if I transition to more video work, which would require more horsepower than I'd need for photography.



Sep 03, 2022 at 09:59 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


I was looking up Apple version history and it looks like there was indeed a G5 Dual Mirror Door which came out in 2003 even though the G4 version continued for another year. And that G5 version was also the very last version to boot natively into OS9, which concurs with my memory of the time. Can't check on this until I get back in the studio next week.


Sep 03, 2022 at 11:02 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


I had a look at apple-history.com and only see the G5 referenced to the new tower design. They state the G5 ran hotter than the previous PowerPC chips and required a new tower design centered around improved airflow. I recall that the G5 tower was considerably different, internally than the previous G4 towers (I had the 2001 Quicksilver). Indeed according to that site, a July 2003 version of the MDD tower was the last OS9 bootable PowerMac.

Anyway, it's splitting hairs.

If indeed you have a G5 in a MDD tower, perhaps it is rare and has collectible value!



Sep 03, 2022 at 11:29 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


We're recording in that room on Monday. I'll boot it up and check.


Sep 04, 2022 at 12:03 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


rscheffler wrote:
^ IIRC the PowerMac MDD was the G4 chip. The G5 was only in the 'cheese grater' tower.

Kent, for me it was roughly 3-4 years in the 2000s, with the last major round being in 2010-2011. For various reasons, that surprisingly held me through to the present reasonably well. Last week I picked up a 14" MBP M1 Pro to be a 'do it all' stop-gap solution. Eventually I may get a Studio or an iMac if it is ever released in SoC configurations comparable to the Studio.

I feel for me, Apple computer upgrades have gone similarly to
...Show more

Yeah, the maturation of capability vs. needs ratio for stills would be fine for a long time to come at my status quo (24MP + pano stitching + uprezzing). Video brings another realm into the equation, but unless I get into the drone thing (which, is starting to tug) video isn't likely. I figure that if this M1 gets me in the 4-6-8 realm, then the next rig should be more in the 8-10 ... combined for abut +/- 15 years out. Hard to predict the future, but that's kinda the model that I'm thinking.

I was just wondering how others experience represented this "model" as being realistic or not. Peter's "it depends" adds both plausibility and uncertainty to it. To that end, software utilization of GPU processing (for stills) is probably the biggest wildcard for down the road longevity.

One one hand, if I get a rig that isn't maxed out on the GPU, I can keep the $$$ in check better. Otoh, if I spend the $$$ for the maxed out dual GPU, I'm "future prepped" for video needs and software improvements for stills (if). Of course, if software development does NOT improve the utilization of GPU processing, then 1) it's "lost money" and 2) the reliance on CPU processing mostly means the upgrade cycle will likely be shorter as (if) demands increase and the CPU gets long in the tooth.

My .02 is that the "next one" will occur in the 4-8 year realm, maybe 6-10. Kind of a wide berth, but my crystal ball is a bit hazy. I've heard many anecdotal users talking about the Mac's by what year it is, kind of like a car. To that end, I've mostly had "good" older cars / trucks, as well as "good" older cameras.

So, I'm thinking that even as the Mac ages ... I'll be good, as long as the compatibility issue(s) doesn't get in the way. I figure that'll be the determinant, so my "crystal ball" worse case scenario (see the math on other thread) ... ain't so bad. Everything else, is better.




Sep 04, 2022 at 07:25 AM
bobby350z
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


I only recently moved to a Mac and I hope I can use it for the next 5-6 if not more without requiring any upgrades. The only reason upgrade would be needed if 1) I start doing video which not going to happen or 2) I get a 400-500MP camera which I don't think happening soon either. Currently I shoot with 100MP body and for my basic needs even my 5-6 yr old PC can handle it. The new Mac studio just makes it effortless even when I need to stitch 10, 100MP files.


Sep 04, 2022 at 09:27 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


It depends - and is usually driven by applications that don't work (aperture) or mac's that don't work with the new camera (eg apple stopped updating for M5 in old iOS) or the old computer being too slow with the new camera.

Down sized my mpx to R5 (45) several years ago from 5DSr (51mpx) but expecting when canon finally puts out a >50mpx system, it will drive my next computer. All about stills.

My current is 2017 5km iMac. I have been tempted to replace it with a studio m1 mini but my reading suggests that the improvements would be marginal - eg maybe 30% improvement at the expense of no compatibility with my old file system (aperture) that I would have to run two systems for.

I am extraordinary frustrated these days with LR but have not found a better system. It has good lens profile correction but has terrible GUI and is designed to be not easy to transfer to another system at a later date. Tried NEO luminair, photo mechanic, bridge/photoshop..... Its taking some of the joy out of photography.



Sep 04, 2022 at 10:28 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


bobby350z wrote:
The new Mac studio just makes it effortless even when I need to stitch 10, 100MP files.


I don't do heavy lifting a lot (stitches, uprezzed files, etc.) ... but, my current rig bogs when I ask a lot of it for such things. Hoping the M1 Macbook Pro will restore some of that "effortless" feeling.

That bog thing is a bit of a disruptor to the mental workflow. And, my "mental" doesn't have a lot of extra to spare.




Sep 04, 2022 at 11:09 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


Scott Stoness wrote:
It depends - and is usually driven by applications that don't work (aperture) or mac's that don't work with the new camera (eg apple stopped updating for M5 in old iOS) or the old computer being too slow with the new camera.

Down sized my mpx to R5 (45) several years ago from 5DSr (51mpx) but expecting when canon finally puts out a >50mpx system, it will drive my next computer. All about stills.

My current is 2017 5km iMac. I have been tempted to replace it with a studio m1 mini but my reading suggests that the improvements would be
...Show more

Yeah, I don't get too enthused by 30% gain. I'm closer to a 200% gain to get my attention.
EB-1 wrote:
A laptop would be replaced less frequently, maybe at 2x performance intervals.
EBH


Not a fan of LR either. I'm currently using Bridge / PS. Bridge has gotten better since days gone by.
I danced with Capture One for a year (still have it, but Bridge / PS is doing pretty well right now).

When I get my Mac, I'll probably dance with Capture One again and see how it plays. I liked aspects of it, but my PC bogged with it at times. Round 2 should be improved, I'd think.


That said ... has me wondering how much Capture One (or other) harness the GPU more so than Adobe (now, or future). Specifically, to the point of difference between the M1 Pro (single GPU) vs. M1 Max (dual GPU). I'm not a video guy, nor a gamer, nor a movie watcher (mostly You Tube info stuff), so the only thing of interest for more GPU would be if there is photo editing tasks that harness the GPU well, when doing heavy lifting.




Sep 04, 2022 at 11:14 AM
bobby350z
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


RustyBug wrote:
I don't do heavy lifting a lot (stitches, uprezzed files, etc.) ... but, my current rig bogs when I ask a lot of it for such things. Hoping the M1 Macbook Pro will restore some of that "effortless" feeling.

That bog thing is a bit of a disruptor to the mental workflow. And, my "mental" doesn't have a lot of extra to spare.



One thing, if you plan to go for C1, it still takes 1-2 seconds for opening the file with the file on the internal SSD. I think it is not optimized for M1 Mac yet. On my older PC, I have my files on a USB3.2 external and it takes 2-3 seconds to get the 100%. From reviews (Art is right youtube channel mainly), newer Lr is much faster than C1 in imports/exports. C1 runs much slower when I import from my SD card into the internal SSD. It is much faster than my old PC but not like wow. Could be my slower cards too. My Mac is Studio Max, 64GB, 1TB drive model.



Sep 04, 2022 at 01:46 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


bobby350z wrote:
One thing, if you plan to go for C1, it still takes 1-2 seconds for opening the file with the file on the internal SSD. I think it is not optimized for M1 Mac yet. On my older PC, I have my files on a USB3.2 external and it takes 2-3 seconds to get the 100%. From reviews (Art is right youtube channel mainly), newer Lr is much faster than C1 in imports/exports. C1 runs much slower when I import from my SD card into the internal SSD. It is much faster than my old PC but not like wow.
...Show more

Gotcha about C1 (current). I'm sure it'll still be better than my existing rig. And, the prospect of what C1 might become to harness the M1 in future releases.



Sep 04, 2022 at 01:51 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


Not sure about C1... DPR has a couple tests with the MBPs and C1 seems to consistently be faster on exports than LR, especially as the resolution/MP of files increases.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/laptop-review-m1-max-macbook-pro-2021-back-with-a-vengeance
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/msi-creator-z17-laptop-review-stealing-apple-s-thunder

The second review mentioned that the LR version 11.4 introduced GPU-accelerated exports. It's pretty clear from the tests that the Max chip is considerably faster than the Pro when it comes to larger MP exports. But again it will depend on your expectations and typical workload. Are you shooting events/weddings and exporting hundreds or thousands of images? I'm guessing not.

One aspect revealed by the above tests that I appreciate about the new MBPs is battery life when photo editing. They don't appear to throttle on battery power and appear to be very energy efficient.



Sep 04, 2022 at 04:03 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


rscheffler wrote:
Not sure about C1... DPR has a couple tests with the MBPs and C1 seems to consistently be faster on exports than LR, especially as the resolution/MP of files increases.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/laptop-review-m1-max-macbook-pro-2021-back-with-a-vengeance
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/msi-creator-z17-laptop-review-stealing-apple-s-thunder

The second review mentioned that the LR version 11.4 introduced GPU-accelerated exports. It's pretty clear from the tests that the Max chip is considerably faster than the Pro when it comes to larger MP exports. But again it will depend on your expectations and typical workload. Are you shooting events/weddings and exporting hundreds or thousands of images? I'm guessing not.

One aspect revealed by the above tests that I appreciate
...Show more

I'll check those out. Thanks.

I don't do a lot of event stuff ... but now and then I do. Music, sports / motorsports, etc. are in my wheelhouse, and have certainly captured thousands over a weekend of shooting at times. Actually, I probably "don't" do it more often, because I know my rig isn't well suited to it. Not saying that I'll immediately start doing so, but it's not out of the question (someday) either. Not sure I'll get back into the wedding game, but occasionally I get a call.




Sep 04, 2022 at 07:10 PM
tcphoto
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


My Refurbished Mid'15 MBP purchased in June '16 is still running strong but the M Series may motivate me to replace it. I don't process and edit huge images or video so I don't feel like I push computers hard. Are you one to buy the latest product or simply have the cashflow to do so? I would also look at Apple's Obsolete list as they make parts and service hard to find on machines.


Sep 05, 2022 at 09:23 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · How long is your Mac upgrade cycle?


tcphoto wrote:
Are you one to buy the latest product or simply have the cashflow to do so?


I don't play the "keep up with the Jones's" game.
I do like to have good tools that have lasting value.
My current rig is from early 2018, an i5 8400H with 64GB RAM and a pair of 1TB SSD on a wide gamut, 4K touch display.
Which actually a pretty good setup, just that I can't upgrade the CPU, and things are starting to get long in the tooth ... so, looking at what the "next" will be (whether now, or when ?).


So, the prospect of an upgrade isn't that it is an issue of "latest product" ... rather, I feel as though my workflow has progressed to a place that I can benefit from a change from what I consider to be an "optimized" unit to a "performance" unit.

So, I'm 4.5 years on this one. I certainly could go longer with this one for most things. But, when I get into some heavy lifting (photomerge, etc.) work, I feel the pain of my "optimized" i5. 100% previews could benefit to improve the fluidity in the workflow.


Looking at the crystal ball of waiting another year, I could be looking at an M2 chip (guessing 3500 MHz vs. 3200 MHz) for a ~10% increase. I don't feel that the M2 chip (vs M1) would have any more longevity (obsolescence) than the M1 ... since the architecture will likely be the same, and software, etc. yada, yada.

Which, then raises the question of to what end is the value of waiting another year with my current rig? I could do that, but not sure that it gains me much more than I can get now with the M1 (less the 10% diff) ... which my estimates are between 200% - 300% performance gains. The M2 would correspond to 220% - 330% gains over my current rig (task dependent). If the M3 chips are 3Nm, that still won't represent a doubling over the M1 ... so, the 2 year wait (or so) keeps me in the i5 for what would amount to around 7 years.

The prospect or a 7 year old i5 ... vs. software computational functions continuing on a more demanding (more capable) trajectory, just seems like things can only become more challenging as time marches on in opposing directions.

That said, I do feel like my current rig is solid ... so, it'll likely get demoted to a different role (tbd). I'm not flush with $$$, but I've been saving some pennies to get here. The main question is timing ... now, soon or wait. To that end, looking at out-year trajectories is a piece of the puzzle.

tcphoto wrote:
My Refurbished Mid'15 MBP purchased in June '16 is still running strong but the M Series may motivate me to replace it.


Pretty much the same place for me with my current rig. The M Series has caught my attention.




Sep 05, 2022 at 10:30 AM
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