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Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead

  
 
runamuck
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


I had two Lumix cameras. Most recent the FZ80 IIRC. The other was 4 years older. Nice little cameras but a total nightmare to use. Seriously, in over a year I never figured them out. Press one button and everything changed. I finally sold both. May heaven help whoever bought them. IQ was very good especially the fz80. BUT that was far overshadowed by their complexity. I finally found an SX 60H and use it far more because it is far simpler to use. Quite like like a DSLR.

I have to wonder if the P&S didn't shoot itself in the foot with the overwhelming complexity. The book of advanced features runs 370 pages. Seriously? The basic manual is 70 pages. That is 440 pages. Rube Goldberg would be hard pressed to devise something this fiendishly complex.



Sep 02, 2022 at 02:22 PM
tkbslc
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


This is like lamenting the drop in pocket calculator sales.

More people are using cameras than ever, they just happen to be attached to their phones. Newer phones have sensors approaching 1Ē and fast apertures in the f1.4-1.8 range. They never mis-focus or mis-expose. They have outstanding video and built in photo editors. They have a giant high quality and bright screen to compose with. They have modes for shooting in low light with good (for 5x7Ē prints) quality. These are far better results than 99% of the public ever got with a normal point and shoot.

I say good riddance to the 10s of millions of boring clone cameras with tiny sensors and slow zooms. With few exceptions, there is nothing to miss. Enthusiast compacts and fixed lens cameras are still in good shape and still being made. So nothing to fret over there.



Edited on Sep 04, 2022 at 12:04 AM · View previous versions



Sep 03, 2022 at 08:59 PM
PicGuy
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


What the graph tells me is that there is very little movement of DSLR shooters to MILC which is surprising. The number of MILC sales over the past ten years have been very consistent with no overall growth. MILC tech has been advancing fast the past then years but I think it is reaching a plateau like DSLRs did through the 2010s. This might negatively impact sales into the future since there will be less and less reasons to upgrade gear quickly.

If were an ILC manufacturer, I would be scared to death that at some point the smartphone industry would decide to compete directly against me. All the carnage wrought by smartphones to the dedicated camera makers to this point is a result of competition between smartphone makers. Imagine the damage smartphone makers could do to the ILC industry if they targeted them intentionally or as a byproduct of them creating a new genre of photography that caters to the billions of smartphone users who want more capable imaging gear. I think it is inevitable that this will happen one day. When it does I believe there will be a revolution in how the bulk of hobbyists and enthusiasts practice photography. This won't mean the end of the ILC makers but many won't survive and ILCs will become a niche area of photography for the well heeled. Luckily there will be a used ILC gear market for some time for those that will want to stick to traditional means of photography.



Sep 03, 2022 at 11:02 PM
tkbslc
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


They are already competing with mirrorless and DSLR, at least for all the people that used to buy the $800 kits and never add any lenses. Why do you think we never see entry level launches anymore?


Sep 04, 2022 at 12:03 AM
Desmolicious
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


Bassat wrote:
Not dead to me. I just picked up a new P&S a week or so ago. Yashica-Mat TLR. All it does, is Point and Shoot.


It focuses and sets exposure automatically? My 124g was manual everything.



Sep 04, 2022 at 12:52 AM
PicGuy
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


tkbslc wrote:
They are already competing with mirrorless and DSLR, at least for all the people that used to buy the $800 kits and never add any lenses. Why do you think we never see entry level launches anymore?


Maybe I should have been more clear. Imaging devices resulting from direct competition that use smartphone tech will replace ILCs for many people by directly competing against them and offering much of the same capabilities.



Sep 04, 2022 at 09:15 AM
tkbslc
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


PicGuy wrote:
Maybe I should have been more clear. Imaging devices resulting from direct competition that use smartphone tech will replace ILCs for many people by directly competing against them and offering much of the same capabilities.


Those "imaging devices" will just be phones.

For the vast majority of the population, the idea of needing to buy and carry a separate "imaging device" is an antiquated one. How would you even market it? Oh it's a camera that operates like my iPhone? Cool, I have one of those in my pocket.

Those of us with specific needs that take us beyond what a phone can do are not going to want simplistic devices. We need specialized devices.




Sep 04, 2022 at 01:01 PM
PicGuy
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


tkbslc wrote:
Those "imaging devices" will just be phones.


Not necessarily. They could be hybrid devices that mix smartphone and P&S and/or ILC features and form factors. They will be small. lightweight, very capable, less expensive and have most of the functional features of a smartphone.

tkbslc wrote:
For the vast majority of the population, the idea of needing to buy and carry a separate "imaging device" is an antiquated one. How would you even market it? Oh it's a camera that operates like my iPhone? Cool, I have one of those in my pocket.


They wouldn't need to carry a separate imaging device. The item I am referring to would serve both purposes but have a form factor more conducive to taking images in a wider set of circumstances. This device will likely be marginally thicker than a smartphone. This would accommodate the electronics, lenses etc. needed to enhance its increased functionality for taking images. Why would these devices have to be the same exact form as a current smartphone? My guess is they will mimic a current P&S camera in many respects but leverage smartphone tech to get much more imaging capability from them. They could have an EVF, or not. Have swapable modules for customization for certain use cases etc.

tkbslc wrote:
Those of us with specific needs that take us beyond what a phone can do are not going to want simplistic devices. We need specialized devices.


These devices will be far from simplistic. There will be many classes of them just like cameras are today and have been in the past.



Sep 04, 2022 at 09:49 PM
tkbslc
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


Sorry, I just donít see it happening.


Sep 04, 2022 at 10:56 PM
PicGuy
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


tkbslc wrote:
Sorry, I just donít see it happening.


A lot of people never saw the smartphone happening either.



Sep 06, 2022 at 09:11 AM
 


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JRobertson
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


PicGuy wrote:
A lot of people never saw the smartphone happening either.


Digital zoom and phone cameras will never be able to compete with a camera/lens combo when it comes to quality. The variability in your point is just that, quality, which is in the eye of the beholder.



Sep 06, 2022 at 10:07 AM
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


PicGuy wrote:
A lot of people never saw the smartphone happening either.


Why would someone want to buy one of these devices over a smartphone? The images delivered by today's smartphones are already good enough for this audience...what more would your hybrid concept offer that a smartphone won't?



Sep 06, 2022 at 12:15 PM
PicGuy
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


chez wrote:
Why would someone want to buy one of these devices over a smartphone? The images delivered by today's smartphones are already good enough for this audience...what more would your hybrid concept offer that a smartphone won't?


They would buy one because they have more imaging capability than a smartphone. A slightly different form factor would allow more robust and capable hardware. Say like an EVF, a larger sensor and wider range optical zooms. The typical thin design of smartphones limits these hardware items in today's phones.



Sep 06, 2022 at 10:48 PM
PicGuy
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


JRobertson wrote:
Digital zoom and phone cameras will never be able to compete with a camera/lens combo when it comes to quality. The variability in your point is just that, quality, which is in the eye of the beholder.


Multiple sensors with optical zoom lenses are in many cameras now. Add in the high resolution, fast readout sensors and this hardware is begging for a slightly more accommodating form factor to allow larger sensors and more robust lenses. Seeing what a current smartphone can get out of $40 worth of camera is amazing right now. With more capable gear and another ten years of software development and I think we will all be very satisfied with the results. For many, this will be all the gear they want or need and many of these people will be current or former ILC users.

IMO, the writing is on the wall at this point. As ILCs get more costly and out of reach for more and more people at some point these type of devices will fill a gap and bring in a new genre of photography. If I live to see it, I will be a user of this gear. As will many of us here. As time passes we all grab a smart phone more and more often for what we photograph. All of us here will adopt these devices for the same reasons we use smartphones today. As soon as the smartphone makers see there is a market for this type of device they will flood the market with them.



Sep 06, 2022 at 11:10 PM
dolina
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


Smartphones are making inroads with

- larger image sensors https://www.androidpolice.com/sony-1-inch-smartphone-camera-sensor/

- longer lenses https://www.xda-developers.com/periscope-camera-vs-telephoto-camera/

All digital still camera brands need to fight over an ever shrinking market that will be made up of

- enthusiast with discretionary $$$

- professionals

Hence the sudden R&D focus on bird & animal specific autofocus

- Canon https://global.canon/en/environment/bird-branch/how-to-photograph-birds/lesson25/index.html

- Nikon https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/tips-and-techniques/understanding-animal-detection-af.html

- Sony https://www.sony.com.ph/electronics/animal-eye-af



Sep 07, 2022 at 01:00 AM
lighthound
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead




PicGuy wrote:
Multiple sensors with optical zoom lenses are in many cameras now. Add in the high resolution, fast readout sensors and this hardware is begging for a slightly more accommodating form factor to allow larger sensors and more robust lenses. Seeing what a current smartphone can get out of $40 worth of camera is amazing right now. With more capable gear and another ten years of software development and I think we will all be very satisfied with the results. For many, this will be all the gear they want or need and many of these people will be current or
...Show more

I couldn't agree more. It's inevitable that the day is coming for such an imageing device aka " Photographer phone" in the next 10-15 years. With all the advancements in hardware and software we are yet to see, these devices will surely replace our 30+ lb. backpacks full of antiquated gear.
As you say, the writing is on the wall.



Sep 07, 2022 at 04:26 AM
jcolwell
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


lighthound wrote:
... these devices will surely replace our 30+ lb. backpacks full of antiquated gear...


Most of my heavy, antiquated gear is on eBay, or soon will be.



Sep 07, 2022 at 05:31 AM
dolina
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


lighthound wrote:
I couldn't agree more. It's inevitable that the day is coming for such an imageing device aka " Photographer phone" in the next 10-15 years. With all the advancements in hardware and software we are yet to see, these devices will surely replace our 30+ lb. backpacks full of antiquated gear.
As you say, the writing is on the wall.


1987-2018: EF mount
2018-2049: RF mount
2049-onwards: Medium format in a smartphone form factor?



Sep 07, 2022 at 05:33 AM
rancherpix
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


A good used Sony RX1R II still sells for over $2K and my "ancient" Sony RX1 is still one of my favorite travel cameras. So I think there is still a market for higher end small cameras although phones are clearly replacing the lower and middle market very quickly.


Sep 07, 2022 at 05:44 AM
JRobertson
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead


PicGuy wrote:
Multiple sensors with optical zoom lenses are in many cameras now. Add in the high resolution, fast readout sensors and this hardware is begging for a slightly more accommodating form factor to allow larger sensors and more robust lenses. Seeing what a current smartphone can get out of $40 worth of camera is amazing right now. With more capable gear and another ten years of software development and I think we will all be very satisfied with the results. For many, this will be all the gear they want or need and many of these people will be current or
...Show more

Again, for short wide angle shots, sure. I'd love to see how a camera in a phone can compete with a 600mm f4 capturing BIF or sports. The physical limits on the smart phone don't lend themselves to such capabilities. In the end, you can only fit so much glass in a phone camera. That's to say, isn't going to happen in my lifetime.



Sep 07, 2022 at 07:01 AM
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