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Archive 2022 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II

  
 
DaveFP
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


Is it worth trading the old for the new?

Reviews seem all over the map on that fundamental point.






Aug 25, 2022 at 03:08 PM
j4nu
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


I think all reviews I've seen show that II is visibly better than I, especially on the long end. Couple that with significant size & weight reduction and I think you have a case for upgrade.
Now, if we'd be talking about upgrading from the Sigma, then the situation seems less clear...



Aug 25, 2022 at 03:16 PM
doc4x5
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


Agree with j4nu. I had the old version and used it rarely because of the weight and arguably marginal image quality in the longer focal lengths. I have lots of (too many?) primes, 24GM, 35GM, 50GM, 85FE so the range is covered for the "serious" work but for travel and events the luxury of not having to change lenses is great. I have done two trips this summer one with family and grandchildren and one with just my spouse but to a reunion event where I was the "official" photographer, and having the 24-70GMII was a breath of fresh air. If I just photographed rocks and trees, what I really enjoy, I'm not sure I'd have upgraded. But I've just been looking at my 24-70GMII images even the landscape one and I'm quite happily impressed. From what I've read, the Sigma is quite good but I've never used it so cannot comment about it.


Aug 25, 2022 at 03:39 PM
SNJOps
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


If anyone has the original GM and wants/needs the best 24-70 on emount then the GM II is better in every single way optically. I have the Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 Art and compared it to the GM II recently, while the new GM is the better lens both in the centre and on the edges it wasn’t enough for me to upgrade. Especially as for me my Sigma is mainly used for studio portraits where I’m more than happy with the performance.


Aug 25, 2022 at 04:02 PM
IslandMed
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II




DaveFP wrote:
Is it worth trading the old for the new?

Reviews seem all over the map on that fundamental point.



Dave,
If you do not mind to get controversial point of view:
Majority of the people buy new equipment (2470GMii or A1) with subconscious hope that expensive gear will magically improve their photography. It will not (except bird shooters).
Certain people (me included) prefer A9 + 2470GM because I can easily risk this combo during my ice- and rock-climbing, extreme skiing or walking through CapeTown slums (but not Makoko in Lagos, unfortunately... I am not that stupid, but I am working on it))) Makoko is my dream).
If you want to spend 2×money at 2470GMii - why not? In real world you can hardly notice difference in image quility (both lenses have beautiful microcontrast, hence very 3D look - and, while 2ng gen is notably sharper, do you need the clinical sharpness which you, most probably, will not notice in real world), but ergonomics of the 2nd gen is top notch (2470GM ergonomically is incredible shit, honestly).
If you want to spend less in order to care less about security of your equipment - why not?

Below is short film about one of my favorite ski colours in Chamonix as explanation why I choose cheaper old gen equipment (with arguably the same quality) with excetion of 70200GMii (where I paid extra 1K for ergonomics and just because I fell in love with this lens).

https://youtu.be/QiUTZzrG0sY

To put all above bla-bla-bla in one sentence: philosophically we should buy things which make us happier long-term))))

Happy shooting!



Aug 25, 2022 at 04:49 PM
InFocus2014
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


Under 50mm, the GM I wasn't bad. My copy at 70mm was quite simply, not pleasingly sharp at f2.8. For the relatively short time I had this lens, I had to play a lot of "sharpening games" for portraits. I had several photographer friends who reported the same lackluster performance around 70mm with this lens. Fortunately, the GM II seems to have solved the problem, making the GM II's strength, 70mm, while simultaneously improving performance under 70mm, down to 24mm. I would say that it is very well worth the upgrade.


Aug 25, 2022 at 05:01 PM
DaveFP
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


IslandMed wrote:
Dave,
If you do not mind to get controversial point of view:
Majority of the people buy new equipment (2470GMii or A1) with subconscious hope that expensive gear will magically improve their photography. It will not (except bird shooters).
Certain people (me included) prefer A9 + 2470GM because I can easily risk this combo during my ice- and rock-climbing, extreme skiing or walking through CapeTown slums (but not Makoko in Lagos, unfortunately... I am not that stupid, but I am working on it))) Makoko is my dream).
If you want to spend 2×money at 2470GMii - why not? In real world you can hardly
...Show more

Thanks; good stuff.

For me it is about weight and better performance at 70mm - for landscape; not portraiture.

I am a little concerned about reported softness at 24mm as I use the "I" at that f.l. a lot.

Best -






Aug 25, 2022 at 05:09 PM
wordfool
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


I just bought the new one, but also recently rented the old one. My take is the old one is worth buying used because you can get one for little over $1K and it's a great lens for that money. But if you're planning to buy either new, then spend the extra $300 and get the new version -- it's smaller, lighter and feels snappier (though the old one is not that much bigger or heavier TBH and it focuses fast). IQ wise I'm not convinced it's any better than the old one but I'm sure copy variation means that's a very YMMV thing -- mine is better at 24mm than 70mm, for example, which is apparently the opposite experience to some other folks.

The 70-200GM "old vs new" debate is entirely different IMO -- the old version is a real boat anchor of a lens and the new one feels almost featherweight in comparison, which is refreshing.



Aug 25, 2022 at 05:21 PM
adamgray1
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


I use the Sigma 24-70 on an a1 for breaking news daily, it's brilliant. Very prime like in its look. It CAN get tripped up on eye focus when people are coming at you fast and short distance - i'm sure the gm2 beats it easily here, but unless you really want 20-30fps and a bit of a weight saving the sigma is a bargain. Used they sell for silly prices too - $800? No brainer for most.

That said, I picked up the gm2 and would LOVE that weight saving but not by spending another $1300 on top of selling the sigma.

As others have said the 70-200ii is the best upgrade.



Aug 26, 2022 at 08:23 AM
andyptak
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


I went back and forth for several weeks about this myself and finally bit the bullet. Like others, I agree that at 70 mm it is much improved. However, I find that my copy also has better microcontrast than my GM1. I've never heard mention of this but it is certainly true about mine.


Aug 26, 2022 at 10:39 AM
adamgray1
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


How's the bokeh? I found the gm1 extremely flat, sigma was far punchier and prime like.


Aug 26, 2022 at 11:15 AM
andyptak
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


I'm not a bokeh guy so probably not the one to ask, because I haven't tested for it. I do think that my increased microcontrast gives more of a perceived punch though. Is it worth the money? Don't know. All depends on whether you're a pro or an enthusiast, and what kind of work you do. Overall I'm happy enough but not thrilled.


Aug 26, 2022 at 11:48 AM
Matti6950
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


I had the GM I (a little bit supbar copy, but even a normal copy would more or less be same for what i will be saying now). I also now own the Sigma and The GM II.

Sharpness: Sigma and GM II wins easely, at infinity is wash (old much wors at 70mm). At close focus distance GM II hands down (but it's not a macro for sure, need to stop down a lot still. GM II might have a hair more microcontrast then Sigma, but Sigma and GM II are way better then gM I. My GM 1 had also astigmatism at 24mm wich was supposed to be strong but not everyone had this. Both Sigma and GM II have way less astigmatism in corners.

Chromatic Aberration: GM I very bad, lot of pixels purple in lot of situations around branches. Sigma: still has some but way better, in fact i think it's slightly better then GMII wich is a bit worse then Sigma but way cleaner then GM I.

Flare: GM I worst, Sigma quite good, GM II very clean (especially contrast near light source).

Size: GM I very bad, the front heavyness is a lot worse then the Sigma, imo even being only 56 gram less weight the Sigma wins hands down in an use all day situation, it's very balanced if you hold hand under or on top of lens near mount (GM I is not, front heavy). And the GM II: big winner. In fact of all the reasons to buy the GM II this is the biggest (way more then image quality or focus speed etc, although they matter as wel). I'm not a person who will buy a lens for extreme low weight and 'no image quality gains', i don't mind heavy lenses like my Sigma 35mm F1.2. But still it's impressive how small, easy to use and portable Sony made this lens. Nitpicking: the GM II is the tiniest amount ever 'backheavy' now rather then frontheavy or balanced. But if you hold one ringer near the mount it's still by far the most balanced and comfortable lens to use (less backheavy then either Sigma or GM I is frontheavy). Round applause for GM II.

Build quality: a wash more or less. The GM I zooms quite stiff. The GM II has a very smooth and slightly stiff (not as stiff as GM I) mode. Sigma zooms very nicely, focus ring a bit to loose (but tbh that's true for GM I and GM II as well, although GM II is nicest to use. The aperture ring i thought (in such a small lens) would be annoying (GM II) but they really thought it well out, the click from A (not using ring) is strong enough to prevent accidents and the ring is tiny making if you hold the lens it wont turn suddenly. Just because of the new options the GM II wins. One small unimportant point. While the GM II really is build nice - the following part doesn't diminish that - of all the plastics used it feels the cheapest, but really by an incredible small margin (it's for sure better then Tamron 28-70, Sony 24-105mm (wich already is damn nice). This was probably a compromise for the weight and as I say it's still very nice build with no complaints.

Bokeh: GM I worst, no arguments, although it wasn't super terrible, there were worse zooms then it on market. Sigma's biggest surprise for me was that next to sharpness, it managed nice bokeh! The GM II is certainly better then GM I, it falls of faster then Sigma, so the transition is smoother, but the bokeh itself i prefer slightly on Sigma i think.

Colors: GM 1 had a weird color profile for landscape imo. Not as vivid as Gmaster 24/35mm, also reds and blue's where under tuned making sunsets on the hard side, green was good but a bit harsh due to how this lens renders high contrast scenes. The Sigma colors are a tiny bit on vivid side, but never exaggerate. For Landscape it's really a nice start if you want to go to the vivid side. Some people dislike the Sigma colours, but since it's subtle, it should be no issue for anyone, the start 'the JPG' file imo needs way less work then GM I, and a bit less work then GM II. That brings us to GM II: this was my biggest dissaopintment. Not because it's a big issue, more because i didn't expect it from a gmaster. It has more subtle colours then the Sigma, Sony Gmaster 24, 35, 12-24mm, 100-400mm GM etc. I think It's like because it's such an allround lens that they wanted it clean enough for everyone. This makes Jpg's loose a bit of punch (although the microcontrast of the lens is really good, making a bit colour punch back. So GM I the worst, the GM II subtle but workable. Sigma imo (for landscape) least work.

Autofocus: GM I was fast, but in sports sometimes couldnt follow like cycling. Didn't test GM II in speedy situation yet, but the speed and accuracy of acquisition give me high hope for sports. The Sigma is the worst in this. Pure accuracy wise it's still very good, speed is better then any non pro DSLR lens (non trinities basically). But this will be better on GM II. GM I is a little faster then Sigma (but not per sé more accurate. Especially for having the closest focus capabilities at 70mm, the speedy AF operation makes a big difference (there it would have been annoying with old speed sometimes).

Price/performance: GM I by far the worst if bought new. Since there's a big gap in the price from cheap to new i'll list them all, old price 2400€: bad, new price now: 1899€ supbar, Old used price 1500€ good, newest used price: 1150€ just short of very good.

Now Sigma. That one is easy: Outstanding. 1200€ brings you almost GM II performance in almost very regard, safe a few (it even wins in a few). Sometimes it cost even less. Hence best price/performance. And image quality is way better then i could ever hope. I expected more compromises. It's the lack of those that makes it so good in P/P.

GM II: the second best (or worst if compared on used prices).. However i would still give it a 'good' rating because of some factors. For same price as old GM I you now get a way better lens (especially in weight and aperture ring). Secondly, it's clear this weight wasn't simple to make, it beats any competition by 100 grams at least, and some low weight lenses are quite costly. For a quite normal OEM price (cheapest of trinity) you get a really good lens. Though the 70-200mm GM II is clearly a bigger improvement.

Edited on Aug 29, 2022 at 02:42 AM · View previous versions



Aug 27, 2022 at 09:41 AM
summmers
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


The biggest factor for me to consider moving to gmii is manual focus. the response on the gm i is horrible, slow, nonlinear. Shooting events I like to use MF in low light, tracking shots, etc, I came up manually focusing cameras and shooting events for over a decade so I'm a bit biased. the images the gm 1 produces are beautiful, imo. I'm not a sharpness freak, but the color and AF is way better than sigma imo. it can look a little soft compared to similar prime if you're 1:1ing a giant 50mp image. no one will notice.

Edited on Aug 27, 2022 at 09:48 AM · View previous versions



Aug 27, 2022 at 09:47 AM
Grenache
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


What no one talks about is the weight gain on v2 from the paint of that extra Roman numeral to make the II.

🤣🤣🤣

Jim



Aug 27, 2022 at 09:48 AM
DaveFP
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Basic question - 24-70 GM vs 24-70 GM II


Matti6950 wrote:
I had the GM I (a little bit supbar copy, but even a normal copy would more or less be same for what i will be saying now). I also now own the Sigma and The GM II.

Sharpness: Sigma and GM II wins easely, at infinity is wash (old much wors at 70mm). At close focus distance GM II hands down (but it's not a macro for sure, need to stop down a lot still. GM II might have a hair more microcontrast then Sigma, but Sigma and GM II are way better then gM I. My GM 1 had
...Show more

Thanks for the thorough comparison.

I will be doing a lot of hiking this fall and toward that end I picked up the new PZ 16-35 (very impressed thus far).

I really need a mid-zoom that is very strong at 70 as my 70-200 won't fit within my favorite small pack and I don't want it dangling from my Peak Design clip all day.

My gen 1 24-70 GM is a fine lens and I have gotten a LOT of great images with it but it is not a landscape lens at 70mm.

Not even when stopped down.

Thanks again.




Aug 27, 2022 at 09:53 AM





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