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Archive 2022 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low ...

  
 
my_mika
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Hello,

first I would like to introduce myself. My name is Michael and I love photography. After long time using a Canon Rebel I switched to the Z6 which I used for round about 2 years. Last week I was able to collect my Z9 and I love that camera.

But shortly after picked it up I noticed a stuttering EVF and monitor while using AF-C in low light at certain shutter speeds. I did some testing:

Take Note:
-For ease, I only speak about "stuttering". Some call it lagging, some call it decreased refresh rate
-Tests were done on FW 2.1 on the Z9
-I used the Z 24-70 at 2.8
-Starlight view Mode is off (on made it worse but it is to be expected and is stated in the manual)
-Enabling / Disabling AF subject detection options didnīt make any difference
-Live View Exposure (WYSIWYG) on or off did not make any difference
-120hz or 60hz refresh rate did not make any difference

Testing:
Low light situation, no people, animals or vehicles. Just a boring room
-Auto ISO (starting from 64 going up to Hi 2, depending on the shutter speed)
-AF-C, pressing the AF button: Single Point AF or Dynamic Area AF S or Wide Area AF S
-Panning or tilting the camera while pressing the AFbutton
1. Back-Monitor:
-Shutter speed of 1" until and including 1/200 -> Stuttering
-Shutter speed including 1"1.3 and lower and including 1/250 and faster -> no stuttering
-Even if you go up to 1/32000 and ISO Hi2, there is no stuttering. Even if most of the scene is black on the monitor
2. EVF:
-Shutter speed of 1" until and including at 1/80 -> Stuttering
(note: at 1/80 it is slightly stuttering. At 1/50 and slower it is severly stuttering)
-Shutter speed including 1"1.3 and lower and faster than 1/80 -> no stuttering

"Normal" daylight situation, no people, animals or vehicles. Just a boring room
-Auto ISO (same as above)
-AF-C (same as above)
I canīt notice any stuttering on any ISO at any shutter speed in the EVF or the back-monitor.

I compared the results to my Z6 (AF-C Single-Point, Dynamic and Wide-S, same shutter speeds, auto ISO) and my Fuji S-10. Both of these cameras had zero stuttering while doing the exact same procedure in the exact same scenarios.

I would kindly ask if you find the time that you would try and see if your Z9 behaves the same.

Thank you very much,
Michael



Jul 26, 2022 at 09:37 AM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Every mirrorless I've used of all brands have that type of stuttering in the EVF/LCD in low to very low light scenarios FWIW. Curious that your Z6 doesn't exhibit it.


Jul 26, 2022 at 10:12 AM
Bobby V
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


RoamingScott wrote:
Every mirrorless I've used of all brands have that type of stuttering in the EVF/LCD in low to very low light scenarios FWIW. Curious that your Z6 doesn't exhibit it.


Agree, this is normal behavior when the shutter speed is lower than the EVF refresh rate and happens with every mirrorless.

The camera needs to decrease the FPS to show you the exposure. EVF has 120fps, that means every frame can be exposed only for 1/120. To show you the exposure preview the camera is adjusting the ISO and shutter speed internally. In most cameras if you turn the live view effect off said stutter goes away, but if you are working in a dark environment then you won't see the exposure, which is the whole point of buying mirrorless



Jul 26, 2022 at 11:00 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Refresh rate and FPS are independent, but if there is nothing new to show you (low FPS) then the same frame is going to be redrawn multiple times before it actually changes to new information.

For example you can play a computer game on a 240Hz monitor but if your computer can only feed it 60FPS, the monitor can still refresh at 240Hz but it's going to show you the same frame 3 times before the information is updated on every 4th frame.

So far I haven't seen so much as the slightest hiccup in my Z9's EVF. I've been in situations where I needed ISO 12,800, F5.6, and 1/60 shutter speed for a proper exposure and there is zero change in the EVF performance. I don't think I've shot darker than that yet though, so if anything changes in near-darkness I haven't experienced that yet.

Edited on Jul 26, 2022 at 11:32 AM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM
Bobby V
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Following up, I did some tests including turning D9 (Apply Settings to Liveview) off and I can still see what you mean about the viewfinder experience changing at 1/50th or below. My guess (those more informed about this kind of thing may have better info) is that at 1/50th something happens in the EVF/sensor pipeline (maybe a shift in gain setting or something) that causes a slightly less than smooth experience.

However, this is only in extremely dark environments, I tested it in a closet with the lights off and the door closed almost entirely. Needless to say, I don't notice this phenomena in any of my practical use of the camera, but maybe someone working in a dark night club would. I'd be curious to play around and see if any other settings are affecting this.



Jul 26, 2022 at 11:31 AM
my_mika
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


RoamingScott wrote:
Every mirrorless I've used of all brands have that type of stuttering in the EVF/LCD in low to very low light scenarios FWIW. Curious that your Z6 doesn't exhibit it.


Thatīs what made me check the Z6, I thought I would have seen this after I saw it on the Z9. But the Z6 is smooth all the way. Same with my Fuji X-S10. Please take note that I just press / engage autofocus to start the stuttering on the Z9, so the Z9 stutters at those shutter speeds whithout taking pictures.

Bobby V wrote:
Agree, this is normal behavior when the shutter speed is lower than the EVF refresh rate and happens with every mirrorless.


Why does it occur on shutter speed 1/200? The evf refresh rate is set to 120Hz.
Why does it not occur in well lit conditions? Why does it still occur if I change the refresh rate to 60Hz and try it at 1/80?

Bobby V wrote:
In most cameras if you turn the live view effect off said stutter goes away,


Disabling the live view mode didnīt remove the stuttering.

CanadaMark wrote:
So far I haven't seen so much as the slightest hiccup in my Z9's EVF. I've been in situations where I needed ISO 12,800, F5.6, and 1/60 shutter speed for a proper exposure and there is zero change in the EVF performance.


Thatīs interesting, whith those settings in a low light environment my Z9 would start to stutter as soon as I engage press and hold the autofocus button down (BBF in AF-C). Please if you have the time could you try to replicate my testing?

Bobby V wrote:
Following up, I did some tests including turning D9 (Apply Settings to Liveview) off and I can still see what you mean about the viewfinder experience changing at 1/50th or below. My guess (those more informed about this kind of thing may have better info) is that at 1/50th something happens in the EVF/sensor pipeline (maybe a shift in gain setting or something) that causes a slightly less than smooth experience.

However, this is only in extremely dark environments, I tested it in a closet with the lights off and the door closed almost entirely. Needless to say, I
...Show more

Thank you very much for taking some time to test it. I will try to take a shot of the conditions I am speaking of. In my case it is not so extreme like yours. Iīm in the livingroom which is lit from daylight through closed window blinds, so the sun comes through those gaps between the wood and another light source comes from the kitchen without the window blinds closed. What I donīt understand is why the Z6 or the X-S10 donīt behave like this.



Jul 26, 2022 at 12:38 PM
Bobby V
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light



Thank you very much for taking some time to test it. I will try to take a shot of the conditions I am speaking of. In my case it is not so extreme like yours. Iīm in the livingroom which is lit from daylight through closed window blinds, so the sun comes through those gaps between the wood and another light source comes from the kitchen without the window blinds closed. What I donīt understand is why the Z6 or the X-S10 donīt behave like this.


Do you still notice this with AF-ON? Sometimes I notice, i.e. when the camera wakes from sleep and when AF is not activated there will be a slight choppiness in the view, that disappears when half pressing the shutter. I have wondered if there is some power saving setting, but it never bothered me enough to investigate.




Jul 26, 2022 at 12:54 PM
my_mika
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Bobby V wrote:
Do you still notice this with AF-ON? Sometimes I notice, i.e. when the camera wakes from sleep and when AF is not activated there will be a slight choppiness in the view, that disappears when half pressing the shutter. I have wondered if there is some power saving setting, but it never bothered me enough to investigate.



I have disabled the power settings and made sure the standby timers are all long enough to not interfere.

I only notice this while pressing the AF-ON button. I have not tried it with half-pressing the shutter button. I use the shutter button to take the picture and the back AF-ON button for engaging focus. I will try it with resetting it to shutter-button half press engaging focus.

I talked to my wife about this. I will try to record the screens of the Z6 and Z9 so I can show you the behavior better.

Thanks for the input.



Edited on Jul 26, 2022 at 01:05 PM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2022 at 01:04 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Bobby V wrote:
Do you still notice this with AF-ON? Sometimes I notice, i.e. when the camera wakes from sleep and when AF is not activated there will be a slight choppiness in the view, that disappears when half pressing the shutter. I have wondered if there is some power saving setting, but it never bothered me enough to investigate.



The Z9 lowers the refresh rate of the EVF (quite a bit, to my eye it looks like down to 20fps or so) to save battery when the meter or AF aren't active. As soon as you half press an AF button to "wake it up", the EVF refresh rate instantly reverts back to 120fps or whatever you have it set at.



Jul 26, 2022 at 01:05 PM
my_mika
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


CanadaMark wrote:
The Z9 lowers the refresh rate of the EVF (quite a bit, to my eye it looks like down to 20fps or so) to save battery when the meter or AF aren't active. As soon as you half press the AF button to "wake it up", the EVF refresh rate instantly reverts back to 120fps or whatever you have it set at.


Exactly. But on my Z9 it looks like the CPU canīt handle focusing and it lowers the refresh rate to try to acquire focus.




Jul 26, 2022 at 01:07 PM
Bobby V
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


I think I've been able to replicate what you are describing, basically sub 1/200th with AF-ON in less than ideal light conditions the refresh rate appears to slow a bit. However in my case, I only see the slower frame rate on the LCD panel and not the EVF. Another interesting thing I noticed is when actually shooting frames, the LCD no longer shows a "stutter effect" as described


Jul 26, 2022 at 01:09 PM
my_mika
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Bobby V wrote:
I think I've been able to replicate what you are describing, basically sub 1/200th with AF-ON in less than ideal light conditions the refresh rate appears to slow a bit. However in my case, I only see the slower frame rate on the LCD panel and not the EVF. Another interesting thing I noticed is when actually shooting frames, the LCD no longer shows a "stutter effect" as described


Thatīs nice. Thank you! Good to hear that the stuttering vanishes when taking frames. Have you tried it while using the EVF and a shutter speed of around 1/25? I ask because I noticed the same. There is some kind of a different affected shutter speed range.

Another thing I noticed is that if you start focusing while using the monitor with 1/200 the view stutters, then still press the AF-ON button and move your eye to your EVF so that the EVF will take over. The EVF view will stutter now too at 1/200 like the monitor did. If you start pressing the AF-ON while already looking through the EVF there is no stuttering at 1/200.

PS: Sorry for the late reply. The forum says I am not allowed to reply that quickly.



Jul 26, 2022 at 01:39 PM
Bobby V
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


my_mika wrote:
Thatīs nice. Thank you! Good to hear that the stuttering vanishes when taking frames. Have you tried it while using the EVF and a shutter speed of around 1/25? I ask because I noticed the same. There is some kind of a different affected shutter speed range.

Another thing I noticed is that if you start focusing while using the monitor with 1/200 the view stutters, then still press the AF-ON button and move your eye to your EVF so that the EVF will take over. The EVF view will stutter now too at 1/200 like the monitor did. If you
...Show more

Yeah, I can see that. Hmm, well I haven't personally noticed this to be an issue for me in several months of shooting, but perhaps you could flag it to Nikon to review if it affects your shooting. At least then maybe they will be able to tell you if its normal behavior or an issue that can be addressed. I've actually submitted firmware bugs myself, and they forwarded my comments on to Japan, and in the latest firmware, at least one was addressed.



Jul 26, 2022 at 02:01 PM
my_mika
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


Bobby V wrote:
Yeah, I can see that. Hmm, well I haven't personally noticed this to be an issue for me in several months of shooting, but perhaps you could flag it to Nikon to review if it affects your shooting. At least then maybe they will be able to tell you if its normal behavior or an issue that can be addressed. I've actually submitted firmware bugs myself, and they forwarded my comments on to Japan, and in the latest firmware, at least one was addressed.


Thank you for your testing.
At the moment, due to high temperature here in Europe, we have to close the window blinds in our living room to prevent heating up the room. Everyday my toddler makes some progress in development. So I donīt want to miss a moment.

I will try to add a video recording.

I think contacting Nikon is a good idea. I just wanted to know the experience other Z9 users have made to see if that is the "normal" behavior of the Z9 or if something is wrong with my Z9.



Jul 26, 2022 at 02:15 PM
my_mika
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


I uploaded a quick video showing the stuttering:


The top view is the Z9 (beginning with 1/80) the bottom view is the Z6 (beginning with 1/30)
You can see the stuttering at the 5sec mark. The recording shows it not as severe as it feels in real life.
The Z6 feels really smooth. The Z9 stutters until switching to 1/250th.
Sorry for the focus issue.



Jul 26, 2022 at 04:08 PM
dalegaspi
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


my_mika wrote:
The top view is the Z9 (beginning with 1/80) the bottom view is the Z6 (beginning with 1/30)
You can see the stuttering at the 5sec mark. The recording shows it not as severe as it feels in real life.
The Z6 feels really smooth. The Z9 stutters until switching to 1/250th.
Sorry for the focus issue.


i have a z6 and z9 and also noticed this EVF stuttering annoyance. the stuttering on z9 does not happen at all with the z6 and to be honest i have not figured out the pattern; it's not always the sudden change of exposure from light to dark (which does happen most often). i don't even recall the z6 stutter so bad it that it gets jarring...



Jul 26, 2022 at 04:31 PM
Bobby V
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


my_mika wrote:
I uploaded a quick video showing the stuttering:


The top view is the Z9 (beginning with 1/80) the bottom view is the Z6 (beginning with 1/30)
You can see the stuttering at the 5sec mark. The recording shows it not as severe as it feels in real life.
The Z6 feels really smooth. The Z9 stutters until switching to 1/250th.
Sorry for the focus issue.


I'd send this vid as a link to Nikon and carefully describe the issue if you can



Jul 26, 2022 at 05:36 PM
sjms
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


i suggest doing a factory reset on this and carefully start setting it up again. the only time i get a stutter is when the eyeball monitor comes out of sleep mode which i set up and its only for a moment. after that it's on its smooth at 60hz (which i use pretty much all the time) or 120hz. i also suggest you look into the manual (updated on thr nikon website) and try each thing you're doing before you go to the next one. that way you get to know this thing a bit more intimately. it took me a bit and another "book" which has over 1100pgs and a few charts. to get it to work the way i wished. we see results but not what is causing it. lots to learn on this thing.


Jul 26, 2022 at 07:04 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


interesting, I guess I haven't done any low-light work at all yet with my Z9. Hopefully if Nikon confirm it a solution will be found and included in a future fw upgrade. Now I have a lens other than my 500 PF, I can actually do some low light shooting.


Jul 26, 2022 at 09:26 PM
Bobby V
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Nikon Z9 - Stuttering / Lagging EVF and Monitor while using AF-C in low light


sjms wrote:
i suggest doing a factory reset on this and carefully start setting it up again. the only time i get a stutter is when the eyeball monitor comes out of sleep mode which i set up and its only for a moment. after that it's on its smooth at 60hz (which i use pretty much all the time) or 120hz. i also suggest you look into the manual (updated on thr nikon website) and try each thing you're doing before you go to the next one. that way you get to know this thing a bit more intimately. it took
...Show more

It only really shows up when the ambient light levels are low enough and the shutter is less than 1/200 . Doubt it is his camera at this point, since I can replicate it as described under the right circumstances.



Jul 26, 2022 at 09:30 PM
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