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Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2

  
 
andyptak
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


Welcome to FM Foto4B. The reason I asked this question in the first place is not because I am not a fan of diglloyd, actually quite the contrary. But here in Canada, like in Australia apparantly, sending back multiple copies of a lens is not standard practice and if I buy them from B&H then I pay multiple customs duties on the same purchase if I keep sending them back.

While I appreciate that making zooms is not simple and 24-70 in apparantly a difficult one. However, Sony have three levels of lenses - consumer grade, G and GM. I expect the tolerances of a GM to be more precise than the other two because it costs a hell of a lot more. Phase One do this with their Blue Ring line. Sony should do the same.



Jul 30, 2022 at 07:53 AM
chiron
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


andyptak wrote:
Welcome to FM Foto4B. The reason I asked this question in the first place is not because I am not a fan of diglloyd, actually quite the contrary. But here in Canada, like in Australia apparantly, sending back multiple copies of a lens is not standard practice and if I buy them from B&H then I pay multiple customs duties on the same purchase if I keep sending them back.

While I appreciate that making zooms is not simple and 24-70 in apparantly a difficult one. However, Sony have three levels of lenses - consumer grade, G and GM. I expect
...Show more

Of course, the Blue Line 40-80 zoom, to pick something roughly comparable, goes for around $8,000 as far as I can discover in a brief search. It is hard to find a published price. Sources seem to ask you to "call to discuss a quote."

And then there is the question whether sample variation within usual limits (excluding grossly decentered lenses where one side or corner is soft in normal viewing, as was the case with many copies of the Voigtlander 15mm) actually matters to the thousands and thousands of photographs that will be made with the lens. One also needs to consider the variations in different samples of camera bodies, for example in terms of the alignment of the lens mount and of the sensor.

Some extremely good photographers and frequent posters on FM don't test their new lenses beyond taking normal photographs with them and looking at the results, and they rarely send back a lens.

And there is also this:

https://fstoppers.com/originals/end-medium-formats-reign-my-journey-phase-one-237535

I think that the real differences among lenses are between different models of lenses rather than between different copies of the same lens. And both Sony 24-70 GM zooms are outstanding lenses.



Jul 30, 2022 at 08:20 AM
andyptak
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


Thanks for the link Chiron. Interesting reading. Believe it or not, I'm not a pixel peeper. I use a lens and unless it has glaring faults I keep it. What bothered me most about this situation is that GM is supposed to stand for the highest of quality and not just a bunch of extra features, which I may or may not care about. Of the thousands and thousands of photographs and photographers who happily use whatever they received, only a small portion are paying the premium for the GM line and I think the accepted tolerances of a GM lens should be better than this. Frankly, I want Sony to succeed because that will benefit us all, but a "good enough" mindset is fine for Playstations, but not for a GM lens. That's my two cents. Cheers.


Jul 30, 2022 at 08:48 AM
chiron
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


AGeoJO wrote:
Thank you, Andy!


Thank you, Peter! I also do like the look, rendering and sharpness generated by that lens very much. To my eyes, they look similar to those of the GM 70-200mm II although obviously, their FL does not overlap, well, yes, at 70mm .

I may add that I took quite a few images at f/2.8 including some skies and those images do not show any perceptible vignetting although not measured, of course. The fit and finish of the lens are also excellent. Plus, the lens feels light but yet superb in the hand, making it a joy to use.


Hi Joshua.

Lovely pictures of a scene one would rarely use the word lovely to describe. Really nice images that distill a different vision of Vegas.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1765071/2#15995910

A question: Did you use any Topaz software in the processing of these? I ask because of the qualities of the colors in these shots, which I very much like in these. If not Topaz, which software that you used might account for the colors?



Jul 30, 2022 at 09:01 AM
AGeoJO
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


chiron wrote:
Hi Joshua.

Lovely pictures of a scene one would rarely use the word lovely to describe. Really nice images that distill a different vision of Vegas.

A question: Did you use any Topaz software in the processing of these? I ask because of the qualities of the colors in these shots, which I very much like in these. If not Topaz, which software that you used might account for the colors?


Thank you for your kind words, Peter! A little bit of my workflow; I import my files using LR, do basic adjustments, such as highlights, shadow, exposure, etc. The default sharpness of LR is 40 but I set it to 0 here. Then, I use Topaz Denoise; first I set the setting to “auto” but most of the time I dial back the sharpness to approximately 75% of the default setting. In this particular file, I also use a preset called “Sunset - Impact” of Luminar AI but I set the opacity to only 15% or so. The effect is barely perceptible but it did add a very slight warmish rendition. That’s it! From start to finish, depending on the processor speed of your computer, it took me a few minutes.

Here is another image from the same area but taken from the other side. The first image is an uncropped file and the second is an approximately 100% crop. Processed using virtually the same workflow above.




© AGeoJO 2022

Around the Venetian, Vegas

  ILCE-1    FE 24-70mm F2.8 GM II lens    50mm    f/2.8    1/30s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  





© AGeoJO 2022

Crop from above

  ILCE-1    FE 24-70mm F2.8 GM II lens    50mm    f/2.8    1/30s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Jul 30, 2022 at 09:27 AM
chiron
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


AGeoJO wrote:
Thank you for your kind words, Peter! A little bit of my workflow; I import my files using LR, do basic adjustments, such as highlights, shadow, exposure, etc. The default sharpness of LR is 40 but I set it to 0 here. Then, I use Topaz Denoise; first I set the setting to “auto” but most of the time I dial back the sharpness to approximately 75% of the default setting. In this particular file, I also use a preset called “Sunset - Impact” of Luminar AI but I set the opacity to only 15% or so. The effect is
...Show more

Thank you for the workflow, Joshua. That is characteristically generous of you. I'll learn from it.

I think perhaps the color qualities that I like are coming from the Luminar AI. It gives the photograph a painterly effect which contributes to a unique rendition of the scene. I like the mini-scene of the gondoliers near the restaurant. Beautiful composition and integrations of a scene that could be merely chaotic. And the image holds up very well at 100%.

The lens also does very well here. The rendering is beautiful.



Jul 30, 2022 at 09:59 AM
DaveFP
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


andyptak wrote:
Thanks for the link Chiron. Interesting reading. Believe it or not, I'm not a pixel peeper. I use a lens and unless it has glaring faults I keep it. What bothered me most about this situation is that GM is supposed to stand for the highest of quality and not just a bunch of extra features, which I may or may not care about. Of the thousands and thousands of photographs and photographers who happily use whatever they received, only a small portion are paying the premium for the GM line and I think the accepted tolerances of a GM
...Show more

These lenses strike most of us as being expensive but when the full spectrum of lens pricing is considered they really aren't.

e.g. - OTUS primes are $3 - 5K US.

Take a look at this list:

https://luxatic.com/top-8-most-expensive-camera-lenses-in-the-world/

(and then research cinema lens pricing)

GMs are Sony's best lenses but they might be considered prosumer lenses and as such don't necessarily "stand for the highest of quality".

I'm with you though; I wish that we didn't have to test lenses when we get them.



Jul 30, 2022 at 11:07 AM
andyptak
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


Dave, you're right. these are prosumer lenses. As I mentioned before, if Sony did the same as Phase One and their Blue Ring lenses I'd be a lot happier. A Blue Ring lens is exactly the same as their regular lenses but has scored at the top of the pile during quality control testing. Although it's identical, there is a premium attached to the selling price because there's no guesswork about it's quality - they are as good as it gets - period. I believe that's what the GM label should stand for. Are you listening Sony? (Fat chance)


Jul 30, 2022 at 03:50 PM
DaveFP
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


andyptak wrote:
Dave, you're right. these are prosumer lenses. As I mentioned before, if Sony did the same as Phase One and their Blue Ring lenses I'd be a lot happier. A Blue Ring lens is exactly the same as their regular lenses but has scored at the top of the pile during quality control testing. Although it's identical, there is a premium attached to the selling price because there's no guesswork about it's quality - they are as good as it gets - period. I believe that's what the GM label should stand for. Are you listening Sony? (Fat chance)


Their Blue Ring 35/3.5 is a $7,300 lens.

I wonder what the 35/1.4 GM would run as an "Orange Ring" lens.

In any case probably more than I am willing to pay as an amateur.

I would imagine that most Schneider Kreuznachs are written off.



Jul 30, 2022 at 05:09 PM
andyptak
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


Dave, your last sentance is very true. I also shoot MF and only have two Blue Rings - in my most commonly used sizes - and the rest are just regular SK. I charge between $3 - $4 K a day and have well over $100K invested, all of it tax deductable.


Jul 30, 2022 at 05:48 PM
 


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mark1958
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


I received a second copy of the 24-70 GM II and it is much better than the first copy (which was stellar at 24 and 35mm but by 50- 70mm was more off center than any lens I previously owned). The version II is better at the the edges and corners than my version 1 especially at f2.8 and f4 but even noticeable at f5.6. The two lenses are closer at 70mm. The 24mm and 35mm f1.4 GM primes are unbeatable and two of my favorite lenses but when traveling and not on a photo trip will likely go with the 24-70mm II due to its size.

Edited on Jul 31, 2022 at 01:03 PM · View previous versions



Jul 30, 2022 at 11:59 PM
PaulCStudios
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


I received my Sony 24-70 GM II yesterday and did testing at dusk, and today with charts and wow, it is excellent. Sharp, centered, and a couple of nice new features, such as lighter, click/de-click, pol window, snap fast focus, I am happy to add this to my kit.

I stopped buying lens from B&H since there was times they seemed to have been opened boxes. Response from them was they are new. Well I think they put returned lens right back on the shelf. I have had much better service purchasing three lens from Allen's Camera. Just my opinion on where I spend my money.



Jul 31, 2022 at 09:49 AM
andyptak
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


To go off topic a bit. Returns and B&H have been mentioned a few times here and that got me thinking. Any Canadians here? B&H used to use Fedex to Canada and it was flawless. Now they use UPS and even though I always tick the box to have B&H arrange shipping, customs and taxes and include them in my final bill, UPS always ding me with (bogus) additional charges. B&H claim they don't know what I'm talking about and for some reason think they use DHL. I can't get it through to them that it doesn't work that way. I sent an item back for warranty repair last week - not B&H related - and it was returned to me clearly marked "customer's item being returned after warranty repair". There was a value of $250 on the package for shipping insurance purposes. UPS charged me $71 to clear the item through customs even when that wasn't required. They've been working this BS for years and it's really gotten to me to the point where I don't buy from B&H anymore - and I want to. Anyone else have this experience?


Jul 31, 2022 at 05:30 PM
wordfool
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


Argh... I only recently got over the urge to obsessively check each and every lens for the most minor decentering issues and now I have to struggle with the realization that I might essentially be buying used, reject lenses from B&H!!

I wish stores would raise the bar to returning things like lenses. After all, it's not like you need to "try" a lens like a pair of shoes or item of clothing. Returns for something like a lens should have a cost (or be refused) unless there's an obvious defect or fault that can be seen or documented. I have never bought multiple copies of a lens just to pick the best one because I don't feel good knowing my previously handled lenses will be resold as new to some other unsuspecting punter, just as I don't feel good knowing I might be buying a "new" previously handled lens.

Meanwhile I shall ponder where to buy my 24-70 GM2. It makes me only want to preorder lenses that are out of stock at B&H knowing that I'll then be shipped one from a fresh batch when they come in.



Aug 01, 2022 at 11:27 AM
InFocus2014
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


AGeoJO wrote:
Thank you for your kind words, Peter! A little bit of my workflow; I import my files using LR, do basic adjustments, such as highlights, shadow, exposure, etc. The default sharpness of LR is 40 but I set it to 0 here. Then, I use Topaz Denoise; first I set the setting to “auto” but most of the time I dial back the sharpness to approximately 75% of the default setting. In this particular file, I also use a preset called “Sunset - Impact” of Luminar AI but I set the opacity to only 15% or so. The effect is
...Show more

Thanks for the processing tip! I use Topaz Denoise AI a lot and always had to turn sharpening way down to prevent over-sharpening. I never thought to dial LR sharpening from 40 to zero (Duh!). With the finer grain from the de-noise process, your nicely processed Vegas photo looks like it was shot with medium format.



Aug 01, 2022 at 01:05 PM
wordfool
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


Welp, I just received the 24-70 GM II (from Allen's Camera) and it is wonderfully small and light, has a worryingly-vulnerable looking front element, and seems sharp across the frame based on my limited testing... and limited testing is all I do these days to just check for obvious issues while avoiding OCD burnout

FYI, my limited test involves taking photos of a bookshelf handheld in good light at f/2.8 and f/4 (supposedly the sharpest aperture) at 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 70mm. Wide open it's sharp, but obviously not quite as razor sharp as it is at f/4 (because it's not magic and laws of physics apply). Weakest focal length wide open seems to be 70mm, but that is probably be a YMMV thing and the difference to other focal lengths is minor TBH. Edges seem consistent enough at f/4 at all focal lengths so I'm not worried about de-centering. And so that's that for testing -- out into the world it'll go!

I'm sure some OCD pixel peeper with umpteen test charts peering at images magnified to 200% on a 4K monitor could find some fault. Or maybe not. I'll never know, and I don't care!



Aug 05, 2022 at 02:42 PM
DaveFP
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


InFocus2014 wrote:
Thanks for the processing tip! I use Topaz Denoise AI a lot and always had to turn sharpening way down to prevent over-sharpening. I never thought to dial LR sharpening from 40 to zero (Duh!). With the finer grain from the de-noise process, your nicely processed Vegas photo looks like it was shot with medium format.


I zero luminance NR too. I leave LRs color noise reduction at default.




Aug 05, 2022 at 04:52 PM
AGeoJO
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


InFocus2014 wrote:
Thanks for the processing tip! I use Topaz Denoise AI a lot and always had to turn sharpening way down to prevent over-sharpening. I never thought to dial LR sharpening from 40 to zero (Duh!). With the finer grain from the de-noise process, your nicely processed Vegas photo looks like it was shot with medium format.


Thank you, Jeff! I used to skip running the Dnoise AI at approximately ISO 800 andd for sure for anything lower than ISO 400, especially for images taken at ISO 100 under studios settings. Now, I basically run every file, although not for the denoising feature but the sharpening effect that I like about that software. Again, the sharpening in LR is at “0” before running through Denoise andt almost always, I set the setting there between 50 and 75% of the intensity.

Here is a sample I did for a file captured in a studio setup. Yes, using the same lens but at mid aperture though…





© AGeoJO 2022

Beth (cross-posted in different threads)

  ILCE-1    FE 24-70mm F2.8 GM II lens    70mm    f/7.1    1/160s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Aug 09, 2022 at 08:14 AM
Petegh
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Sample variation Sony 24-70 GM 2


ePHOTOzine have just published their Imatest review of the 24-70GMII; their sample seems to excel at 70mm:

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/sony-fe-24-70mm-f2-8-gm-ii-lens-review-36131



Aug 10, 2022 at 09:21 AM
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