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Archive 2022 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files

  
 
Kirantexas
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


Hello all,

I have been struggling and managing this problem for a past few months. Finally decided to post them here to get some thoughts on what I might be missing.

I have been shooting with Canon R6 majorly focusing on birds using a EF 600F/4 V2 on a tripod. While shooting in most conditions my ISO levels going anywhere between 1000-8000 to achieve faster shutter. When check my results on DPP it looks absolutely fine in these noise ranges. However when I tried to open the CR3 directly in LR or PS, the noise-levels are extremely high (with noise reduction kept at 0). Most instance i could not start the editing process until I fix the noise. I have tried multiple options as below:

1) Convert them to TIFF from DPP before commence editing in LR or PS
2) Tried setting a "ISO adaptive preset" in Camera Raw to adjust noise levels automatically based on ISO

However I am not sure if I am missing something. My question is the this level of noise expected in a new gen models like R6 even in Raw format? Is there an issue with either the hardware or software that need to be tweaked? If this is expected how are you managing them.

Here is the link to the sample image .. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lxZ6v1p4ePWsAHxrF3rxkg4KLteonzS0?usp=sharing



Jun 26, 2022 at 04:11 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


I don't think there's much difference between modern models. I'd suggest taking a look at the Studio scene in DPR and comparing models, use RAW and ISO ranging from 800 to 6400.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r6-review/5

The difference between DPP and LR/PS suggests DPP is baking in some NR and you need to match it in LR/PS or use a 3rd party program like Topaz or DXO



Jun 26, 2022 at 04:47 PM
exdeejjjaaaa
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


Kirantexas wrote:
When check my results on DPP it looks absolutely fine in these noise ranges. However when I tried to open the CR3 directly in LR or PS, the noise-levels are extremely high (with noise reduction kept at 0).


as noted already - you are complaining about how (much) NR is applied by 2 different raw converters... that's it - so find a way to apply NR either directly in whatever raw converter you want to use (instead of keeping NR sliders @ zero) or before feeding something to it instead of original CR3 raw files (using software for example from Iridient /C-Transformer/ or DxO / PurePlastic..oops, PureRaw / to generate linear DNGs after NR is done by them)



Jun 26, 2022 at 05:50 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


Those links don't work for me.
DPP does not bake in NR, but has settings for chrominance and luminance NR. If you did not change them per image or change the defaults in Tools, Preferences, Image Processing 1 then it is probably applying excessive luminance NR based on a camera setting. You can set default to 0, 0 or do that individually.
Any RAW file at high ISO will look somewhat noisy with no NR. The first time I looked at an a7RIV image at ISO 1600 I was sickening.

EBH



Jun 26, 2022 at 05:54 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


Yeah, I should have said default not baked in....


Jun 26, 2022 at 06:37 PM
armd
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


So, a couple points here. Yes, many of these sensors produce “noisier” images as a result of pixel density. I looked at your histogram and you certainly have latitude to increase your exposure (ETTR) and minimize noise. Next investing in high quality NR whether it is Topaz, NoNoise, DxO, is essential with the higher pixel cameras.

DPPdoes as a default apply some NR unless you turn it off. Your workflow is entirely up to you though applying NR first before major PP seems best. I tend to work in RAW so frequently I’ll make overall tonal adjustments first and then send a .tiff to Topaz or work in a program like On1 NoNoise on the original RAW.



Jun 26, 2022 at 09:33 PM
Kirantexas
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


Thanks for all your valuable feedback. As pointed out by you all, I have been using Topaz Denoise for a while as a last step in my workflow. But was not sure what is the right workflow to deal with it. I have now tried to bump the settings in LR and have been able to get the similar output to the DPP tiff.

@armd - Considering the white subject, was not comfortable exposing to the right which might take away a lot of details on the subject and difficult to recover post. However i do understand and appreciate the point you made on ETTR & optimizing noise in darker setup.



Jun 27, 2022 at 11:01 AM
mangurian
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


How about posting a raw image. I use Photolab 5 as my raw processor and its Deep Prime noise reducer is better than anything I have tried on raws.


Jun 27, 2022 at 01:20 PM
exdeejjjaaaa
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


EB-1 wrote:
Any RAW file at high ISO will look somewhat noisy with no NR.


except of course "noise" has mostly nothing to do w/ a nominal ISO ( and w/ most modern sensors S/N in deep shadows w/ equal exposure can be better if you actually dial sufficiently higher nominal ISO - how high depends on the camera model - see https://www.photonstophotos.net/ for relevant tests ), but almost everything with exposure (that is aperture and exposure time) - well exposed raw @ ISO1600 will have less "noise" vs severely underexposed raw @ ISO100 ... do NOT preach "exposure triangle"




Jun 27, 2022 at 07:01 PM
Camperjim
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


Kirantexas wrote:
While shooting in most conditions my ISO levels going anywhere between 1000-8000 to achieve faster shutter. When check my results on DPP it looks absolutely fine in these noise ranges. However when I tried to open the CR3 directly in LR or PS, the noise-levels are extremely high (with noise reduction kept at 0).


This matches my experience with the Canon 90D. For my past Canon cameras with the 24 mp sensor, the noise was pretty high at or beyond ISO 1600. I did not see much improvement in noise at high ISO with my 90D using Adobe ACR to open the raw files. Results were outstanding when I used Canon DPP4 software to open raw files. The default noise reduction works very well giving me great results up to ISO 6400. At ISO 12800 or beyond I often get quite useable results but sometimes I see color shifts that are not easily corrected and some minor loss of details can occur. Adobe ACR just does not work well for noise reduction!

I took a hard look at some of the other properties of Adobe ACR and found other major deficiencies. For example, the colors tend to look better when opening with DPP4 and of course, DPP4 also permits use of a wide variety of "picture styles" which can easily change the look. I found color and light adjustments work better with DPP4. DPP4 also permits use of a diffraction correction algorithm that works wonders. This may not be much use for bird photography but it is very powerful for my macro photography where I often shoot at f/20 or higher to extend depth of field. The Canon DC algorithm works like magic to retrieve details that would have otherwise been lost. Like "magic" is the best description I can offer because it does not seem possible that software could recover details lost to diffraction.

My solution to this has been to use DPP4 to open raw files! One downside is that DPP4 is quite slow compared with ACR. I typically do not process large numbers of files and have found the speed acceptable (especially since I am now using a newer computer with an SSD drive. I make adjustments to a raw file and then process in the background with DPP4 while I make adjustments on the next file.

I have never tried to us Adobe software for file management so that has made it easy to avoid the use of Lightroom and stick entirely with DPP4. I convert and then save as tiffs. I have also given up with using the full subscription version of PS. I find that PS Elements does everything I want at a very low, non subscription cost. If I were not so use to Elements, I would probably just switch to Affinity Photo and be entirely done with Abode and their predatory prices and policies.

One final comment to a long post, but you might also want to give a try to Topaz Sharpen AI. It definitely goes beyond what DPP4 can achieve for both noise reduction and sharpening. Unfortunately it is slooooooooooow.



Jun 28, 2022 at 08:36 AM
Ayoul
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · R6 Extreme Noise - RAW files


I would use indeed DXO DPL5 to create linear DNG if noise is a problem. You have to shoot at high shutter speed (so at high isos) for BIF. As a consequence, you won't avoid noise. So the best idea is to use denoising software. If the default rendering of deep prime is to plasticky for you, you can dial down the luminance slider a little bit.

Then finish the job in LR is that's your favourite software.



Jun 29, 2022 at 07:54 AM





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