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Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?

  
 
theHUN
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


Hi all,

I have a lovely 2000FCW, and I am looking for a 50 mm lens. While the native 50 mm FLE Distagon is an obvious candidate, I am also toying with the idea of adapting a LF lens (a Rodenstock 55mm f/4.5 APO Grandagon for example) so I could have xy lens movements. And while tilt would be nice too, it is more of a 'nice-to-have'.

Unfortunately, there is very little material online about how to make such an adaption work. Can any users chime in? Does anyone make helicoids for LF lenses that have movements integrated and can be directly mounted to a Hasselblad V-mount? Or do I need two parts, one LF helicoid and one adapter to Hasselblad V? Which vendors offer these parts? Are there any pitfalls I should be looking out for?

I would appreciate any input.



Jun 23, 2022 at 04:23 PM
naturephoto1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


theHUN wrote:
Hi all,

I have a lovely 2000FCW, and I am looking for a 50 mm lens. While the native 50 mm FLE Distagon is an obvious candidate, I am also toying with the idea of adapting a LF lens (a Rodenstock 55mm f/4.5 APO Grandagon for example) so I could have xy lens movements. And while tilt would be nice too, it is more of a 'nice-to-have'.

Unfortunately, there is very little material online about how to make such an adaption work. Can any users chime in? Does anyone make helicoids for LF lenses that have movements integrated and can be directly
...Show more

You may have sufficient extension to focus the lens to infinity with a helicoid (25mm? or so). You may also have sufficient extension to focus to 1:1 (50mm?). You may also wish extension tubes with the addition of a helicoid for focus. In addition, you would probably require some sort of attachment offering any movements. Another option would be to use a bellows that offer lens movements incuding rise and fall, shift and tilts and swings that you can mount the camera and adapters for the lens.

I am not sure that something like a Cambo Actus could possibly be adapted for this possible capability to keep the whole package smaller in size.

Possibly Brad (freaklikeme) can make some suggestions as he has experience with helicoids but I am not sure if he has experience with the medium fomat camera with a large format lens.

Let me add to this with some experience and some additional knowledge. Looking at my Rodenstock 55mm f4.5 Apo-Sironar digital which is based upon the Rodenstock 55mm f/4.5 APO Grandagon the lens is mounted in a Copal 0.0 shutter. The rear elements of the lens is fairly large so the lens may end up being inside of the camera mount. Exact measurements will need to be taken. Also, you will need to have a large enough tube for the mounting of the lens.

What I did for mounting my Schneider-Kreuznach 120mm f5.6 Makro-Symmar HM which is in the same shutter as the 55mm Grandagon and the 55mm Apo-Sironar lenses was to use the 120mm Makro-Symmar lens on my Leica R bellows. To do this, I used a Leica R T mount combined with a special adapter prepared by SK Grimes. See the photos below.

I now use both of these lenses and others on my Cambo Mini Actus with my Sony cameras. In the case of the SK 120mm Makro-Symmar lens, I can now mount the lens with this combination directly to a Cambo Actus Leica R adapter and mount the lens to the camera.

Rich


















Edited on Jun 23, 2022 at 08:48 PM · View previous versions



Jun 23, 2022 at 04:35 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


The flange distance on your 2000 is 74.9mm. The flange distance of the Rode 55 is 67.6mm (rear of the shutter to the focal plane). So no, it won't work.

Hassy made the Arcbody, which is specifically made to work with LF lenses, and had Rode manufacture some APO Grandagons with Hassy's filter adapters specifically for this purpose. That would be your best bet, since you could continue to use your Hassy film backs with it. It's a sweet little tech camera.



Jun 23, 2022 at 06:32 PM
theHUN
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


Thanks for the clarifications.

Looks like I will just stick to the tried and true 50 mm FLE Distagon.



Jun 23, 2022 at 08:08 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


naturephoto1 wrote:
You may have sufficient extension to focus the lens to infinity with a helicoid (25mm? or so). You may also have sufficient extension to focus to 1:1 (50mm?). You may also wish extension tubes with the addition of a helicoid for focus. In addition, you would probably require some sort of attachment offering any movements. Another option would be to use a bellows that offer lens movements incuding rise and fall, shift and tilts and swings that you can mount the camera and adapters for the lens.

I am not sure that something like a Cambo Actus could possibly be adapted
...Show more

That's a nice setup Rich! What's the model number on that bellows? Do you know?



Jun 23, 2022 at 08:36 PM
naturephoto1
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


rdeloe wrote:
That's a nice setup Rich! What's the model number on that bellows? Do you know?


That unit was the Spiratone Bellows Master SST as I recall I believe manufactured by Hama. My copy now has parts that have broken so it is no longer fuctional though it may be possible to perform some repair. At this point, I use my Cambo Actus Mini as a substitute for my needs.

Rich




Jun 23, 2022 at 08:46 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


naturephoto1 wrote:
That unit was the Spiratone Bellows Master SST as I recall I believe manufactured by Hama. My copy now has parts that have broken so it is no longer fuctional though it may be possible to perform some repair. At this point, I use my Cambo Actus Mini as a substitute for my needs.

Rich



Thanks Rich. That makes a lot more sense. I thought it was one of the SST bellows, but was confused by your reference to Leica R bellows in the body of the post. All good now!



Jun 23, 2022 at 09:20 PM
naturephoto1
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


rdeloe wrote:
Thanks Rich. That makes a lot more sense. I thought it was one of the SST bellows, but was confused by your reference to Leica R bellows in the body of the post. All good now!


Hi Rob,

Sorry for the confusion.

I only used the photo of the lens mounted on the the Spiratone Bellows and not only the original Leica R Bellows since I do not have a photo of the lens mounted on the Leica R bellows. Perhaps the photo bellow will better explain the usage of the different camera systems with both Bellows. These are all old images and the Panasonic Lumix G1 is attached to the Spiratone Bellows and my Leica R8 is attached to the Leica R Bellows. The lens on with the lens cone on the Spiratone Bellows is my Leitz 25mm f2.5 Photar lens and the lens on the Leica Bellows is my Leitz/Leica 100mm f4 Bellows Macro Elmar lens.

Rich









Jun 23, 2022 at 09:38 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Rob,

Sorry for the confusion.

I only used the photo of the lens mounted on the the Spiratone Bellows and not only the original Leica R Bellows since I do not have a photo of the lens mounted on the Leica R bellows. Perhaps the photo bellow will better explain the usage of the different camera systems with both Bellows. These are all old images and the Panasonic Lumix G1 is attached to the Spiratone Bellows and my Leica R8 is attached to the Leica R Bellows. The lens on with the lens cone on the Spiratone Bellows is my Leitz
...Show more

I looked closely at the Spiratone bellows when searching for a platform to build a new camera. Another interesting and rare option is the Plaubel SST, which also has movements on front and rear standards.

In the end I went with the Mamiya Auto Bellows. It only has movements on the front standard, but that's a good compromise for me because the GFX 50R body is quite heavy so a stable rear standard is essential. The front standard gives me tilt, swing, rise/fall and shift (both 15mm). For carrying in the field all day, it makes a nice, light setup.



Jun 24, 2022 at 07:24 AM
theHUN
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


Those who know LF lenses well, do any ~55 mm lenses have a flange distance of >80 mm (or at least sufficiently longer than 75 mm to accommodate the parts needed to mate it with a 2000 FCW)?


Jun 24, 2022 at 10:23 AM
 


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freaklikeme
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


theHUN wrote:
Those who know LF lenses well, do any ~55 mm lenses have a flange distance of >80 mm (or at least sufficiently longer than 75 mm to accommodate the parts needed to mate it with a 2000 FCW)?


So far as I know, nothing that wide has a flange distance that will work. Even the retrofocus Rode HR-Digaron W 50/4 needs 76mm, and that would basically leave the entire rear group extending inside the camera, likely fouling the mirror and limiting the shift capability. In reality, to give any lens both a helicoid for focusing and a bellows for PC control (which would have to be custom designed), you need much more than 80mm. Something like the Rode APO-Sironar-S/Digital 135/5.6, with it's 134mm flange and very small rear group, would leave you plenty of room to add a bellows and helicoid and keep the rear group free of the mount. You might be able to get a 100 to work (with a very short helicoid) but that's something you'd need to work out with whomever designs the bellows unit.

Sorry to be such a dream-killer, but the Hassy V flange distance does not make things easy.



Jun 24, 2022 at 03:05 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


rdeloe wrote:
I looked closely at the Spiratone bellows when searching for a platform to build a new camera. Another interesting and rare option is the Plaubel SST, which also has movements on front and rear standards.

In the end I went with the Mamiya Auto Bellows. It only has movements on the front standard, but that's a good compromise for me because the GFX 50R body is quite heavy so a stable rear standard is essential. The front standard gives me tilt, swing, rise/fall and shift (both 15mm). For carrying in the field all day, it makes a nice, light setup.
...Show more

We have like minds there, Rob. My Auto-Bellows N is my macro solution for the 50sII. I thought about getting a TS adapter to get movements on the rear (which is how I used it with Sony mirrorless) but decided it wasn't worth the hassle.



Jun 24, 2022 at 03:13 PM
theHUN
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


freaklikeme wrote:
So far as I know, nothing that wide has a flange distance that will work. Even the retrofocus Rode HR-Digaron W 50/4 needs 76mm, and that would basically leave the entire rear group extending inside the camera, likely fouling the mirror and limiting the shift capability. In reality, to give any lens both a helicoid for focusing and a bellows for PC control (which would have to be custom designed), you need much more than 80mm. Something like the Rode APO-Sironar-S/Digital 135/5.6, with it's 134mm flange and very small rear group, would leave you plenty of room to add a
...Show more

Thank you for the detailed explanation.



Jun 24, 2022 at 03:30 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


theHUN wrote:
Those who know LF lenses well, do any ~55 mm lenses have a flange distance of >80 mm (or at least sufficiently longer than 75 mm to accommodate the parts needed to mate it with a 2000 FCW)?


I don't know of any. If such existed, I'd probably own it.

Different sensor... but I tried an APO-Grandagon 55/4.5 on my GFX 50R and it produced a lot of lens cast with even small shifts. You could handle that with a lens cast correction frame (every time...), but it would be a pain.




Jun 24, 2022 at 03:30 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


freaklikeme wrote:
We have like minds there, Rob. My Auto-Bellows N is my macro solution for the 50sII. I thought about getting a TS adapter to get movements on the rear (which is how I used it with Sony mirrorless) but decided it wasn't worth the hassle.


I had to hack the be-jeebers out of mine to make it work for regular photography. This worked so well that it's effectively replaced my Toyo VX23D as my every day field camera. My MAB camera, as I call it, comes in at 785 grams, versus around 4 times that for the Toyo. I built a dual mount so it can use my Pentax-A 645 35/3.5, plus a bunch of lenses that I've remounted to Olympus OM as a common mount.

I wrote up a little overview here if you're interested: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4654358



Jun 24, 2022 at 03:34 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


rdeloe wrote:
I had to hack the be-jeebers out of mine to make it work for regular photography. This worked so well that it's effectively replaced my Toyo VX23D as my every day field camera. My MAB camera, as I call it, comes in at 785 grams, versus around 4 times that for the Toyo. I built a dual mount so it can use my Pentax-A 645 35/3.5, plus a bunch of lenses that I've remounted to Olympus OM as a common mount.

I wrote up a little overview here if you're interested: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4654358


Thanks for the link and nice work, brother. It looks great.



Jun 24, 2022 at 04:26 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


freaklikeme wrote:
Thanks for the link and nice work, brother. It looks great.


Thanks for looking. It actually looks kind of janky. But it works great, so that's all that matters.

I have a second Mamiya Auto Bellows ready to go for version 2 once I work out all the kinks with this one through a season of actual use. So far so good.



Jun 24, 2022 at 05:02 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


rdeloe wrote:
Thanks for looking. It actually looks kind of janky. But it works great, so that's all that matters.

I have a second Mamiya Auto Bellows ready to go for version 2 once I work out all the kinks with this one through a season of actual use. So far so good.


For a home conversion, I think it looks pretty solid, but now I'm anxious to see the sequel.



Jun 24, 2022 at 06:19 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Large format lenses on Hasselblad 2000FCW?


freaklikeme wrote:
For a home conversion, I think it looks pretty solid, but now I'm anxious to see the sequel.


You're too kind. Unfortunately, for a really professional look, I need skills and tools I don't have, e.g., to mount Pentax 645 I had to manually file and sand a P645 mount to the correct thickness; a machinist could plane one down neatly. There are a bunch of things I did that I might farm out to a machinist who has the tools. We shall see.

Anyway, it's all about results for me. Even the prototype delivers -- so good to go for now.



Jun 24, 2022 at 08:33 PM







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