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Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview

  
 
Pixel Perfect
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


telyt wrote:
The lenses are interesting, the Z9 negates the size/weight advantage of the lenses. Unfortunate that Nikon and Canon have gone the big/fat route for their high-performance bodies.


Well Canon R3 is only 1kg, and IMO that's pretty damn good, lighter than A1 with battery grip. I own Z9 but was disappointed it wasn't lighter. I guess it has a whopping heat sink for 8K60p.

Eventually Nikon will have a D850 replacement maybe even Z7III will get massively upgraded cpu and AF and hopefully much faster sensor even if not stacked.

dclark wrote:
From WikiPedia:
"Forum trolls are users that repeatedly and deliberately breach the netiquette of an established online community, posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages to bait or excite users into responding or to test the forum rules and policies, and with that the patience of the forum staff. Their provocative behavior may potentially start flame wars (see below) or other disturbances. Responding to a troll's provocations is commonly known as 'feeding the troll' and is generally discouraged, as it can encourage their disruptive behavior. "

IMO feeding a troll is essentially the same as being a troll.

Please continue your dispute via PM
...Show more

Actually on Canon rumors it's someone that doesn't endlessly praise Canon no matter how much Canon gear you own. The mod over there has very thin skin.



Jun 29, 2022 at 10:38 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Choderboy wrote:
OK, I missed that , obviously!
Seeing how small it was I just jumped straight there.




Yeah it's puzzling, because IMO the 400 makes the 500 PF actually look overweight now and it seems the real benefit of PF is compact size not weight reduction. The 500 is barely a few mm larger than the 400. Canon however said DO was also about weight reduction but I think they overstated that too. 400 f/4 DO is about exactly where the weight of a non DO would be if it were as short. I guess we'll never really know how much PF reduces weight.



Jun 29, 2022 at 10:43 PM
telyt
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Well Canon R3 is only 1kg, and IMO that's pretty damn good, lighter than A1 with battery grip.




  1. The Canon R3's vertical grip is as removable as the Z9's
  2. I don't use a vertical grip on the a1 so the R3 is still big & fat as is the Z9
  3. The Canon R3's 24 MP means it's only half-qualified for the high-performance label.




Jun 30, 2022 at 12:40 AM
telyt
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


one_abouve_all wrote:
Well, if you are a photographer and you are looking to get a great image (picture) the weight (of a camera/lens) is the last thing one will consider. That is why all the "f4/F2.8 long lenses" are heavy and big but we do not mind it.


Nonsense. The Sony 600mm f/4 is considerably lighter than the C & N equivalents that came before it and more importantly the center of gravity is closer to the camera body so a big/fat body isn't necessary to 'balance' the setup. I use the Sony 600 GM with an un-gripped a1 and the balance is fine, either on a tripod or hand-held. Those big & fat bodies are only 'necessary' to balance the 600 if it's an old-school lens.



Jun 30, 2022 at 12:47 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


PF is indeed used to reduce length and weight while achieving a good correction of chromatic aberrations. However, there are other means of achieving weight and size reduction; PF is not the only one. The 500 PF has higher theoretical MTF than the 400/4.5 at least wide open (see 30 lpmm meridional line). It's not clear what the 400/4.5 MTF is stopped down to f/5.6, it could be closer to what the 500 is wide open but on the other hand, if the purpose is to achieve a narrow angle of view it doesn't seem that the 400 would do a better job at it than the 500, TC or not. Where I see the advantage of the 400/4.5 is for those who mainly need a 400mm rather than a longer focal length and who prefer a wider aperture than f/5.6 but still portable and hand-holdable.

I personally loved to use the PF lenses but ultimately sold both of them as I didn't like the way the images looked compared to traditional optics (too harsh, and with the 300 PF, milky skin). I am happy that Nikon are presenting users with alternatives to PF while still achieving light weight and compact size in a long focal length lens. It seems likely that my Z teles will be 70-200/2.8 and 400/4.5 unless Nikon put out a Z 300/2.8 before I have the opportunity to buy the 400 (300 is my preference but a 400, if suitably compact, I can work with). I don't need a longer lens than 400 and want something more practical in terms of size, weight, and cost than the 400/2.8; the 400/4.5 seems perfect. For those who want both portability and longer focal lengths, it seems the combination of 400mm f/4.5 and 800/6.3 would be good choices with competitive prices, although not exactly inexpensive, but still, considering the cost of Canon's 800mm f/5.6, very competitive.

Nikon have said they'll incorporate the Z9's technology into other models of the camera lineup; I would expect the Z6 and Z7 series to be the next to receive the Expeed 7 processor. These will be compact and won't come with integrated vertical grip. Personally I like a large body especially when working with telephoto lenses as it brings the overall weight closer to the chest, where it is easier to support. Lenses have progressed from more front-weighted to less front weighted in modern designs but I still like the camera body to have vertical grip (as a people photographer I find it very important that vertical images are shot with the same ergonomics and posture as horizontal images). It's also nice not to have to ever worry about running out of battery. When I use a small body like the Z6 II it feels a bit awkward not having enough physical controls having to go into the menu more often than I am used to, and going back to the larger D6 or similar body feels very comfortable and "like coming home", where everything is its place. When working with on-camera flash and shooting vertical images, the Z6 II feels especially out of balance. The Z9 is thinner than the DSLRs and should not feel "fat". I really love that the back LCD tilts both ways without flipping over (again because I shoot a lot of verticals). This should be good also for photographing plants, as one often can't get low enough to the ground while using the viewfinder and currently I have to shoot them as horizontals to get to use the tilting LCD on lesser models, and end up cropping to make a vertical image. A folding-out LCD that opens to the left of the camera body isn't a good solution IMO as I could easily damage the mechanism when working close to the ground (and when working on a pillow placed on the ground, I let the camera body and lens rest on the pillow and if it is vertical, there would not be any space for an LCD that opens below the camera in this orientation.)



Jun 30, 2022 at 03:42 AM
telyt
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


ilkka_nissila wrote:
Nikon have said they'll incorporate the Z9's technology into other models of the camera lineup; I would expect the Z6 and Z7 series to be the next to receive the Expeed 7 processor. These will be compact and won't come with integrated vertical grip. Personally I like a large body especially when working with telephoto lenses as it brings the overall weight closer to the chest, where it is easier to support. Lenses have progressed from more front-weighted to less front weighted in modern designs but I still like the camera body to have vertical grip (as a people photographer
...Show more

Of course the Z9's technology will 'trickle down' to lesser bodies, that's what technology does. The question is "when?". Many of us have been using a compact high-performance camera for over 1 year; how long must someone who uses Nikon equipment wait?

Re: the integrated vertical grip, it's about having choices. A vertical grip can be added as needed to a compact camera, it can't be removed from a camera like the Nikon Z9 or Canon R3. Compact camera, choice. Integrated grip camera, no choice.



Jun 30, 2022 at 08:22 AM
 


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telyt
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


ilkka_nissila wrote:
Nikon have said they'll incorporate the Z9's technology into other models of the camera lineup; I would expect the Z6 and Z7 series to be the next to receive the Expeed 7 processor. These will be compact and won't come with integrated vertical grip. Personally I like a large body especially when working with telephoto lenses as it brings the overall weight closer to the chest, where it is easier to support. Lenses have progressed from more front-weighted to less front weighted in modern designs but I still like the camera body to have vertical grip (as a people photographer
...Show more

Of course the Z9's technology will 'trickle down' to lesser bodies, that's what technology does. The question is "when?". Many of us have been using a compact high-performance camera for over 1 year; how long must someone who uses Nikon equipment wait?

Re: the integrated vertical grip, it's about having choices. A vertical grip can be added as needed to a compact camera, it can't be removed from a camera like the Nikon Z9 or Canon R3. Compact camera, choice. Integrated grip camera, no choice.



Jun 30, 2022 at 08:23 AM
Alistair1
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Why so insecure? Nikon may be on a roll with interesting new lenses right now but your Sony is still a great system. Calm down and go shoot something and then share it on FM. (but on the Sony forum please).


Jun 30, 2022 at 09:03 AM
robert614
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Sorry guys.

I initially posted this thread in the Sony forum, but for whatever reason, Fred moved it over here.

I guess because, like many threads on this site, it devolved into brand wars.

The main point of the thread was that I was admiring some of Nikonís latest telephoto offerings. And I hope Sony is working on some of their own. Especially in that large price gap between the 200-600 and the high end 600/4 and 400/2.8

Anyways, the thread seems out of place over here. I tried to delete it, but I donít know how. Feel free to ignore it if you want.




Jun 30, 2022 at 09:15 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


I never liked accessory vertical grips; I've had a power circuit failure in the D850 where it (a few months old camera) would not get power from the battery grip; there are flexing issues where the framing of plant macro shots are compromised when mounting the camera on tripod from the vertical grip, and the position of the controls is inferior because the area between the two components cannot be used for controls. In addition, it complicates matters as one may need to acquire separate L-brackets for the main body and grip, and one has to deal with different battery sizes for one camera, and extra nibbles and pieces such as the covers for the electrical interfaces. None of these issues exist for the integral vertical grip cameras. I never felt any of the D8x0 series fit the hand as well as the integral grip models. But these things are somewhat subjective and I know people who like and prefer the smaller cameras. It's good to have options but for me the accessory grip is not as appealing as the integrated grip.

Z9 technology becomes available more broadly in the lineup over time, as to when this will happen is not known outside of Nikon. What is the rush? Just shoot with whatever you have and enjoy photography. The next step in camera evolution won't be the last. As soon as it becomes available, there will start to be complaints. A much better strategy is to focus on the content of the photography and the human aspect of the experience rather than the tech.



Jun 30, 2022 at 09:29 AM
Alistair1
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


robert614 wrote:
Sorry guys.

I initially posted this thread in the Sony forum, but for whatever reason, Fred moved it over here.

I guess because, like many threads on this site, it devolved into brand wars.

The main point of the thread was that I was admiring some of Nikonís latest telephoto offerings. And I hope Sony is working on some of their own. Especially in that large price gap between the 200-600 and the high end 600/4 and 400/2.8

Anyways, the thread seems out of place over here. I tried to delete it, but I donít know how. Feel free to ignore
...Show more

No worries, your initial post was fine. It was what followed that was a bit alarming! But your above above post explains all, thanks.



Jul 03, 2022 at 11:15 PM
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