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Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview

  
 
aboutthelight
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Nikon is doing a great job of producing niche lenses that are light and easy to hold and use. Kudos to them for innovating and building up a great lens line up. For me, nothing replaces a 600 F4 and Sony has the best on the market. They also have an outstanding 400 2.8. The PF lenses and this new 400 are all great and affordable options to the 400 2.8 and 600 f4. If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford the big primes than these other lenses are not necessary and will likely see extremely limited use. I would love a light 500 f4 (PF type lens) but it will see limited use. I find it funny that every time another camera maker comes out with some lens that I read posts about if whatever maker doesn't come out with this soon then I will switch. Sony has the best camera by quite a bit in my book when you consider the size and weight and speed of the A1. They have the only proper 600 F4 and they have a killer 400 2.8. I want the best with me and am not taking my 600 and a bunch of other lenses into the field with me anyway. I own the 200-600 and don't bring it with me cause it is not as good as the 600 (of course) and because I don't usually lug 2 lenses with me. I have seriously thought about the 400 2.8 and may get one at some point. But it will see limited use compared to the 600. So this lens is a nice lens that even if Sony produced I would not buy.


Jun 22, 2022 at 02:43 PM
telyt
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


ChrisMak wrote:
Also, and this is because it personally affects me, the gap between the 200-600G and the 600GM is too big, with the latter being literally too big and far too expensive for my liking. Sony should really concentrate on bridging this wide gap, by offering something inbetween, like Nikon is now doing.

It could be a 600mm f5.6 or a 500mm f4.5 with diffractive optics or not, and of course Sony does not hŠve to do it if they are reluctant, but I see Sony wildlife/birding shooters moving towards Nikon if they do not, except perhaps for the high end
...Show more

My thinking has been similar, the PF lenses would be a great portable option but the unportable size/weight of the Z9 has kept me firmly (and joyfully) with the a1. I'm willing to bet Sony will have something comparable coming.



Jun 22, 2022 at 02:49 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


aboutthelight wrote:
Nikon is doing a great job of producing niche lenses that are light and easy to hold and use. Kudos to them for innovating and building up a great lens line up. For me, nothing replaces a 600 F4 and Sony has the best on the market. They also have an outstanding 400 2.8. The PF lenses and this new 400 are all great and affordable options to the 400 2.8 and 600 f4. If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford the big primes than these other lenses are not necessary and will likely see extremely limited
...Show more

The A1 is a great camera, but cameras turn over quickly. Lenses not nearly so much. Because of that I make my system decisions weighted more heavily on lenses than cameras. I like Sony lenses, but they have a huge gap in primes longer than 135mm and less than $12,000, which is an area in which I want at least one lens. I hope Sony addresses this gap, but they have done nothing for over 3 years, so I quite reasonably worry they won't address that gap. I hope my worries are misplaced.



Jun 22, 2022 at 03:40 PM
aboutthelight
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Steve Spencer wrote:
The A1 is a great camera, but cameras turn over quickly. Lenses not nearly so much. Because of that I make my system decisions weighted more heavily on lenses than cameras. I like Sony lenses, but they have a huge gap in primes longer than 135mm and less than $12,000, which is an area in which I want at least one lens. I hope Sony addresses this gap, but they have done nothing for over 3 years, so I quite reasonably worry they won't address that gap. I hope my worries are misplaced.


Understood and many are in that place which is why Nikon is doing such a great job producing these mid range lenses. Fortunately I own a 600F4 and use it all the time with my A1 so these niche lenses really would see very little use. But again I recognize that I am likely in the fortunate minority that owns and shoots a Sony 600F4. For me who only shoots birds and who only has one lens with him 99% of the time, I only need one lens and one camera. The rest are peripheral products for limited use. I want the best camera and lens, not the most lenses that would see limited use and be a compromise as well. Until it changes Sony has the best of the best in my books. The best camera, the best 600 f4 and a killer 400 2.8.



Jun 22, 2022 at 04:28 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Nikon loves announcing very cool lenses.
Problem is they never ship any of them to customers so in the end they are about equal to Sony in availability of these unique lenses

There has been a single shipment of 800PF lenses way back and nothing since. 400/2.8S has very few copies shipped. Good luck getting a 400f/4.5 before Xmas .....Xmas 2023 that is....



Jun 22, 2022 at 07:08 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


May be I am in the minority here and/or maybe there is something wrong with me. I do have the A1 and with all accounts, the AF on that camera performs admirably, the resolution, as well as the dynamic range is excellent. I am using 2 lenses, the GM 600mm and G 200-600mm, for birds and wildlife and they perform tremendously well on that camera. Yes, I am happy with and enjoy my gear each time I go out and put it to good used. As such, I am not out there keeping my eyes peeled for lenses/cameras on another platform. Is there something wrong with me?


Jun 22, 2022 at 07:44 PM
chez
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


AGeoJO wrote:
Is there something wrong with me?


Never anything wrong with just enjoying taking photos rather than continuously peeking over the fence to see how green the grass is.



Jun 22, 2022 at 07:52 PM
dclark
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


AGeoJO wrote:
May be I am in the minority here and/or maybe there is something wrong with me. ........ Is there something wrong with me?


I hope you are OK, since I am essentially the same.

Dave



Jun 22, 2022 at 07:54 PM
jwolfe
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Photojournalists are not bird photographers and they also need fast glass. So a 400mm 2.8 / 600mm f4 is essential. And I wouldnít put much stock in the AP. They move around a lot.

chez wrote:
I think the combination of 100-400 and 200-600 covers most of the laymanís needs and the 400 / 600 covers the professional / advanced amateur needs at these longer lengths.

I would think with APís relationship, if AP thought something was missing, Sony would build it.




Jun 22, 2022 at 10:04 PM
jwolfe
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Thatís an unfair criticism right now. Have you tried buying a car? Or sourcing anything out of china? The whole world is messed up. And Asia keeps going into lockdowns. Not to mention the fact that there is a flotilla of boats waiting to get into port.

Sony hasnít been able to ship quite a few of its products. This isnít a Nikon problem.

arbitrage wrote:
Nikon loves announcing very cool lenses.
Problem is they never ship any of them to customers so in the end they are about equal to Sony in availability of these unique lenses

There has been a single shipment of 800PF lenses way back and nothing since. 400/2.8S has very few copies shipped. Good luck getting a 400f/4.5 before Xmas .....Xmas 2023 that is....




Jun 22, 2022 at 10:08 PM
 


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ChrisMak
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


arbitrage wrote:
Nikon loves announcing very cool lenses.
Problem is they never ship any of them to customers so in the end they are about equal to Sony in availability of these unique lenses

There has been a single shipment of 800PF lenses way back and nothing since. 400/2.8S has very few copies shipped. Good luck getting a 400f/4.5 before Xmas .....Xmas 2023 that is....


You are absolutely right that Sony is uniquely able to keep stock of and supply 99% of their products to camera stores almost permanently.
Which is the direct reason that I now use the A1 and 200-600G, and not the Olympus OM-1 and 150-400mm, which is currently a vaporware lens, with no supplies here in Western Europe for all of 2022 so far, and not looking like there will be any supplies this year.
nikon is very much starting to look the same.

Still, Sony seems to have lost interest to innovate beyond the 200mm focal length, only offering their great but BIG and very expensive 600mm in prime class over 400mm. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that there is a current trend towards smaller and much lighter and much more affordable long lenses, aided by technological innovation, and when Canon brings their 500/4.5DO lens, things will not be getting any better for Sony going forward.
In my view, they have fallen asleep, have lost the drive to innovate and compete, at least when it comes to long lens shooting, and are getting caught sideways by Nikon and soon Canon, and the only thing they have going for them over Nikon is their great production and supply chain. When Nikon brings the 600mm f4 with built-in tc and the 200-600, and Sony is still fast asleep and resting on laurels, then that would actually give Nikon a much better position going forward, especially when Z9 technology trickles down to more reasonably sized and more affordable bodies.



Jun 23, 2022 at 03:13 AM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


AGeoJO wrote:
May be I am in the minority here and/or maybe there is something wrong with me. I do have the A1 and with all accounts, the AF on that camera performs admirably, the resolution, as well as the dynamic range is excellent. I am using 2 lenses, the GM 600mm and G 200-600mm, for birds and wildlife and they perform tremendously well on that camera. Yes, I am happy with and enjoy my gear each time I go out and put it to good used. As such, I am not out there keeping my eyes peeled for lenses/cameras on another
...Show more

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with you, but not everyone is like you?



Jun 23, 2022 at 03:28 AM
Alan Parker
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


I think this conversation is also much more about giving people options. As much as I love my hobby, something like a 400/2.8 or 600/4 is just never going to be an option. I personally consider the pricing of the 100-400GM to be at enthusiast level already; pushing it into the "I can only justify one or two of these" range.
The gap between the 100-400GM and supertelephoto primes is currently about 7000 EUR. Far too much for people to bridge. If they add some options that are $3-4000 that could really open things up for folks and allow people to invest in glass that is at the top of their price range. I know the 200-600 is supposed to be a lens aimed at me, but it's widely impractical given the size and compatibility issues with the R4.
The more options Sony has, even if they are in limited supply, the better. What Nikon is doing is a lot more to my liking at least, especially since they have roadmaps of what to expect.



Jun 23, 2022 at 03:40 AM
telyt
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Alan Parker wrote:
... What Nikon is doing is a lot more to my liking at least, especially since they have roadmaps of what to expect.


I can't use roadmaps. I use cameras & lenses that are available.



Jun 23, 2022 at 04:17 AM
Douglas L
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


I would be thrilled if Sony made something like Nikon's new 800mm PF. I use a 1.4 TC on my 600 GM 90% of the time, so may as well get a much lighter/cheaper 800mm. For what I shoot in long telephoto range, I am not interested in new long lenses shorter than 600mm, I already have the 100-400 GM and the 200-600. No, I am not switching, not a fan of cameras with built-in grip like the Z9. As an onlooker, I must say the new Nikon 400 with built-in 1.4 TC and the 800 PF are very innovative. On the other hand, Sony, Sigma, and Tamron are pumping out one great lens after another recently in the <200mm range.


Jun 23, 2022 at 04:55 AM
Choderboy
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


4 and a half months wait for a Sony 1.4TC for me.

jwolfe wrote:
Thatís an unfair criticism right now. Have you tried buying a car? Or sourcing anything out of china? The whole world is messed up. And Asia keeps going into lockdowns. Not to mention the fact that there is a flotilla of boats waiting to get into port.

Sony hasnít been able to ship quite a few of its products. This isnít a Nikon problem.








Jun 23, 2022 at 05:05 AM
Choderboy
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


It's money.
These Nikons are priced between the 600f4 and the 200-600 / 150-600 lenses.
The 500 5.6 PF costs around twice the price of Sony 200-600.
The Sony 600 f4 costs about 9 times the Sony 200-600.

There are many people who can't afford or are not willing to spend the money the 400 2.8 or 600 f4 cost and want something that sits in the huge gap between the traditional offerings. I don't think there's anything wrong with people wanting that.
So there's nothing wrong with you, or those paying interest in Nikon's unique lenses.
Small size and weight is also a feature of these Nikons which may also be attracting interest.

AGeoJO wrote:
May be I am in the minority here and/or maybe there is something wrong with me. I do have the A1 and with all accounts, the AF on that camera performs admirably, the resolution, as well as the dynamic range is excellent. I am using 2 lenses, the GM 600mm and G 200-600mm, for birds and wildlife and they perform tremendously well on that camera. Yes, I am happy with and enjoy my gear each time I go out and put it to good used. As such, I am not out there keeping my eyes peeled for lenses/cameras on another
...Show more




Jun 23, 2022 at 05:21 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


AGeoJO wrote:
May be I am in the minority here and/or maybe there is something wrong with me. I do have the A1 and with all accounts, the AF on that camera performs admirably, the resolution, as well as the dynamic range is excellent. I am using 2 lenses, the GM 600mm and G 200-600mm, for birds and wildlife and they perform tremendously well on that camera. Yes, I am happy with and enjoy my gear each time I go out and put it to good used. As such, I am not out there keeping my eyes peeled for lenses/cameras on another
...Show more

There is nothing wrong with you, but you can afford the $13,000 600 GM, and you are happy with its size. Not everyone can afford such a very expensive lens nor does everyone want a lens that big. For me and my needs (long lens shooting is less than 10 percent of what I do) it is just way too expensive and it is much much larger than what I want to use. That leave limited option with Sony, at least for now. In contrast this new 400 f/4.5 from Nikon is the size I would like and I think would meet my needs for a long lens and will cost $9,000 (or maybe $10,000) less. Simply put if you can justify the 400 GM or 600 GM and want that type of lens, Sony does have those two options as compelling lenses, but if you can't justify buying those lenses Sony doesn't leave you with many options. In your case you can obviously justify the 600 GM, so Sony is a great option for you. Sony just doesn't have the lenses that I would like and it is not clear that they every will.



Jun 23, 2022 at 05:34 AM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


Steve Spencer wrote:
Sony just doesn't have the lenses that I would like and it is not clear that they every will.


I guess that if Sony has no interest in competing in the future long lens arena, they could still change their mind and course and you might see some intersting long lenses from Sony in future.
But if Sony simply lacks the technology, and has invested nothing in R&D on PF or DO technology, then these lenses are not going to happen with Sony period, and Nikon and Canon will have that segment all to themselves.

Body wise, I have zero interest in anything besides the A1, but the size, weight and price differences between lenses like the Nikon 500PF and 800PF, and the Sony 600GM are not trivial, so I remain unsure whether a 600GM at this stage is a wise investment, even if I decide I am willing to spend that much on a single lens. The 500PF was so much more fun to shoot than the Sigma 500S, even if I liked the f4 aperture, that really made a big impression. The 600GM still needs a 1.4TC to get to 800mm, at which stage it is much bigger and considerably heavier than the Nikon 800PF, and twice the price.

The thing is, when the 500PF came and appeared as good as it was, nobody bought a Nikon 500mm f4E any longer, they were even selling them. I am sure that if Sony came out with a high quality 500 or 600mm lens with diffractive optics at around 5000-6000,- and at much smaller size and weight, Sony shooters would be all over it, and wonder how they ever got along without it. But since Sony does not make these lenses, and are not showing the faintest sign that they are ever planning to make them, the attitude amongst Sony shooters will predominantly and inevitably be, that these are unneccessary or superfluous lenses, and Sony has all you will ever need in all focal lengths. Such is the psychology of man.



Jun 23, 2022 at 06:58 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Nikon 400mm f4.5 preview


ChrisMak wrote:
I guess that if Sony has no interest in competing in the future long lens arena, they could still change their mind and course and you might see some intersting long lenses from Sony in future.
But if Sony simply lacks the technology, and has invested nothing in R&D on PF or DO technology, then these lenses are not going to happen with Sony period, and Nikon and Canon will have that segment all to themselves.

Body wise, I have zero interest in anything besides the A1, but the size, weight and price differences between lenses like the Nikon 500PF and 800PF,
...Show more

In my view Sony could build some cheaper, but still excellent long primes even without PF/DO technology. This 400 f/4.5 from Nikon is not a PF lens and yet is relatively small (rumored to be 230mm long with a 95mm filter) and light (rumored to be 1250g). Sony could certainly build a lens like this with their current technology. Perhaps a better route, however, would be lower priced 500 f/4.5 (either with or without PF/DO technology). This would be a lighter, smaller and considerably more capable lens than the 200-600. Something like that for $5,000 or so could keep Sony quite competitive. Then if they built a 300 f/2.8 or if they are creative a 250 f/2.4 even without PF/DO technology and kept it small and light as they could for a reasonable price. Sony becomes quite competitive with Nikon and Canon. Without any new lenses, they just leave too big of a gap between the 400 and 600 GM lenses and the 100-400 GM and 200-600 G. I am not going to rashly change from Sony, but at the same time I won't stick with them if I only have the current choice. Personally, I will wait at least 2 years and see what Sony does, but if they have gone what will be 5 years by then without addressing this gap, I will probably go with a different system.



Jun 23, 2022 at 07:45 AM
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