Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

  

Eizo Calibrator lifespan

  
 
leethecam
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


Wondering how long the built in Eizo calibrators stay accurate for?

My i-1 Display Pro is rated to last a decade or two due to the quality / type of optical coatings. I hear that Spyder units tend to last less, maybe 4 years or so.

Eizo just tell me "they last quite a long time" but aren't very specific...

So I'm wondering if anyone has been quoted (and by whom) or has anecdotal experience to suggest their longevity?

If it helps, my monitor is a CG319X



Jun 21, 2022 at 05:11 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


11,000+ hours and eight years on a CG277 and no problems yet. I think the screen will crap out before the colorimeter.


Jun 21, 2022 at 07:20 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


You also might want to contact the very good folks at Chromix.com in Seattle as they might know as much or more than even Eizo about this or at least be able to give you a much more definitive answer, although I have to say that Eizo USA has some of the best tech support for any tech company I've encountered. Maybe their UK/EU arms are not up to the same standard.


Jun 22, 2022 at 03:50 AM
bjhurley
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


leethecam wrote:
Wondering how long the built in Eizo calibrators stay accurate for?


It's also reasonable to ask how accurate the built-in probes are in the first place.

There seem to be very different standards for color accuracy between photographers and professional colorists for cinema. For example, a colorist will always bypass the computer's operating system and GPU (using a Blackmagic Design Decklink or Ultrastudio device between the computer and reference monitor), in order to remove influences of the OS and GPU on color.

If you go on any colorist forum (e.g., Lift, Gamma, Gain) you'll see that few of them advise using the built-in probes on Eizo monitors, especially the earlier ones; some also advise you to avoid using Eizo's Color Navigator software or at least use the NX version. See for example https://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/ezio-cg2420-calibration.10067/ and https://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/help-eizo-monitor-calibration-for-cinema.9298/

I'm not sure I fully understand the reasons behind the more stringent requirements of colorists, beyond the need to adhere to strict broadcast-legal standards and cinema standards that don't apply to photography. Plus in video and cinema there's the need for continuity and color matching between scenes and cameras.




Jun 22, 2022 at 06:02 AM
Kalainen
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


leethecam wrote:
Wondering how long the built in Eizo calibrators stay accurate for?

My i-1 Display Pro is rated to last a decade or two due to the quality / type of optical coatings. I hear that Spyder units tend to last less, maybe 4 years or so.

Eizo just tell me "they last quite a long time" but aren't very specific...

So I'm wondering if anyone has been quoted (and by whom) or has anecdotal experience to suggest their longevity?

If it helps, my monitor is a CG319X


Here's some data about the accuracy: https://www.eizoglobal.com/library/management/calibration-sensor/index3.html

In short, it's good.

Being an Eizo-fan, I remember reading somewhere that the CG series had a little simpler built-in calibrators than the x-series (though, in practice it didn't matter much).

How long they last, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure Eizo hasn't cut corners here.



Jun 22, 2022 at 09:02 AM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


My current display has 15,150 hours and it self calibrates every week without issue. The previous display lasted about 7 years and over 20K hours. Calibration was never a problem. Eventually the backlight CFL started to become non-uniform around one area.

EBH



Jun 22, 2022 at 12:46 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


I took a quick look at those lift gamma links, and all I can say is that they have no effing clue as to what they're doing. The built-in colorimeter is very very good on these monitors. Color Navigator is just fine. The bottom line is that most video oriented people have only a limited understanding of color spaces and how they relate to your own color grading and, more importantly, how they relate to your output needs. You can never actually bypass the operating system in terms of color, but if you understand this stuff, you'd also understand why you don't want to bypass. And, if you're using ReSolve, like so many are these days, it can be configured to be fully color managed, or you can use it the old fashioned way and calibrate your screen to your output space. Actually, I would not even know how to bypass the OS, as there has to be some sort of system profile in there just to display images and video no matter what, so why not have the correct one there. If you're using an app that's not color managed, then that app won't use the profile and just throw raw RGB at the screen, which is why, for those, you want to be in your output space.

When I had a similar conversation with Pat at Chromix a few years ago, and we'd get pretty deep in the color management weeds, he told me that you'd have to spend several grand to get a better measuring device than the built-in Eizo. His feelings where that the i1Pro was a very good device but the Eizo was even better.




Jun 22, 2022 at 04:00 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

bjhurley
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


Peter Figen wrote:
I took a quick look at those lift gamma links, and all I can say is that they have no effing clue as to what they're doing.


I wouldn't go that far: some of them (e.g., Marc Wielage, who has 40 years of experience as a colorist on more than 250 films; he likes Eizo by the way) work on major Hollywood projects and most of the people posting advice there and responses to questions are professional colorists. They definitely have a clue. :-)



Jun 22, 2022 at 04:42 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


bjhurley wrote:
I wouldn't go that far: some of them (e.g., Marc Wielage, who has 40 years of experience as a colorist on more than 250 films; he likes Eizo by the way) work on major Hollywood projects and most of the people posting advice there and responses to questions are professional colorists. They definitely have a clue. :-)


Not necessarily. From the responses I read there, no one really seemed to understand the color pathway in the operating system and how to deal with it. You could easily be a colorist for decades and not have a clue about input and output profiles, lookup tables and color spaces. Remember that for years they used monitors supplied to them mostly by Sony that were pre-calibrated to REC709, which is a very easy target to hit. There was one response that did get it right that REC709 is just sRGB with a 2.4 gamma, but he even dithered on that, and let's not get into dithering either.

But now that we have several different color space to consider depending on your output, it complicates matters when you don't have a well established color management workflow implemented.

Several years ago I went to a seminar here in Los Angeles put on by some of those heavy hitters in the film industry - y'know - just for kicks, and they were pushing the hell out of Flanders monitors, which, literally are no better than Eizo, and in some ways worse, but in all ways three times the money. When I was at that workshop, at the end, I asked a bunch of questions about how they dealt with color issues, and no one there had any kind of a satisfactory answer. That was pre DaVinci ReSolve, so a lot has changed, and even though ReSolve has the tools, even their implementation leaves a lot to be desired. it's still very confusing.




Jun 22, 2022 at 09:04 PM
bjhurley
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


Peter Figen wrote:
Actually, I would not even know how to bypass the OS, as there has to be some sort of system profile in there just to display images and video no matter what, so why not have the correct one there.


It's not about "bypassing the OS" it's about bypassing ICC profiles applied by the OS.

In photography we use ICC profiles in the OS or GPU to apply an image adjustment to our display. The process of calibrating a reference monitor for TV and film involves calibrating the display hardware itself to a standard, independent of the input source, as explained in detail here for example (ignore the marketing language about the ColourSpace software; it's the comparison between using ICCs and hardware calibration that's the point):

https://www.lightillusion.com/what_is_wrong_with_iccs.html

As for the built-in colorimeter in some Eizo monitors, it's worth noting that even Eizo itself has a training video showing the need to calibrate the colorimeter first using a high-end spectrophotometer if you're going to be using it for serious broadcast or film post production. Once correlated to the spectro it should remain accurate (although I think the older models, like my CG one, used plastic lenses that may lose accuracy over time compared with the glass lenses used in the newer Eizo monitors that come with built-in colorimeters).

https://youtu.be/wGNKSTCBtk8

None of this is necessary for photographers and will seem bizarre. But for people working on professional TV and cinema, it's standard procedure.



Jun 23, 2022 at 04:36 AM
leethecam
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


Peter Figen wrote:
You also might want to contact the very good folks at Chromix.com in Seattle as they might know as much or more than even Eizo about this or at least be able to give you a much more definitive answer, although I have to say that Eizo USA has some of the best tech support for any tech company I've encountered. Maybe their UK/EU arms are not up to the same standard.


Dan at the UK office is usually quite helpful.

Edited on Jun 30, 2022 at 07:21 AM · View previous versions



Jun 23, 2022 at 04:42 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


bjhurley wrote:
It's not about "bypassing the OS" it's about bypassing ICC profiles applied by the OS.

In photography we use ICC profiles in the OS or GPU to apply an image adjustment to our display. The process of calibrating a reference monitor for TV and film involves calibrating the display hardware itself to a standard, independent of the input source, as explained in detail here for example (ignore the marketing language about the ColourSpace software; it's the comparison between using ICCs and hardware calibration that's the point):

https://www.lightillusion.com/what_is_wrong_with_iccs.html

As for the built-in colorimeter in some Eizo monitors, it's worth noting that even
...Show more

Again - While there IS an ICC system profile loaded into both Macs and PC's, if the app can't read it or the files have no embedded profiles it's basically moot, so there's nothing to do. Sort of, because there HAS to be at least an assumed input profile for any app to display any image. You ALWAYS have to have a source and a destination profile - ALWAYS. If you don't have one designated, there will be a default or the app just sends RGB straight to the screen and you are now in whatever your calibrated monitor space is, which is how this stuff works in video generally and worked in Photoshop prior to about 1993 or so. Remember when Linocolor introduced us to all this profile stuff even before Ps, using the same ColorSync technology that Apple originally developed. I do.




Jun 23, 2022 at 07:08 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


leethecam wrote:
Actually Dan at the UK office is very helpful indeed. It's a great team, they helped me out on a personal level several times. Dan spent an hour on the phone going through various specs and line-ups. Their UK haed of sales actually brought a CG319X to my offic in person and stayed a couple of hours whilst I gave it a test run, and they set up 3 monitors with a blackout at theor offices some years ago when I couldn't decide between various models.

When I had an issue with my old CG2420, they organised a replacement next day
...Show more

Good to hear that they rock just as hard over there as they do here.



Jun 23, 2022 at 07:08 PM
leethecam
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Eizo Calibrator lifespan


Peter Figen wrote:
Good to hear that they rock just as hard over there as they do here.


Mind you... They're not being so helpful at the moment. Last time I dealt with them it was great - see my more recent posting on my CG319X problems, and you'll find my experience is very different this time. Something has changed at Eizo and it isn't good.




Jun 30, 2022 at 07:23 AM







FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username      Reset password