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Will Canon come out with a R1?

  
 
tcphoto
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


If Canon is going to follow their product cycle, I imagine the rumored R1 will arrive around the '24 Paris Olympics. The R3 looks to be a robust body but those 1Series cameras are the top specced and intended for PJ and Sports shooters, it better for the price they'll likely ask for it. The R3 is US$6K and would likely be lowered slightly with the R1 being offered at around US$6,500 I think. The pandemic has reeked havoc in just about every industry so I wouldn't hold my breath on a timetable.


Jun 26, 2022 at 10:42 AM
Mike Jacks0n
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


IMO, an R1 would be more closely matched to a 1Ds than a 1D. And when you look back, the 1DS bodies very seldom corresponded to an Olympic event. I think there is higher corresponding link with the 1D bodies, but I'd argue the limited R3 use at the last Olympics was Canon's attempt to follow this trend. As far as correlation, almost all of the 1Ds bodies seem to follow the Olympics of that year, however I even find that hard to believe this time. I guess the end of the year will flesh it out.

Also, I don't know that the PJ and Sport photogs really want a higher res camera, so I wouldn't expect Canon to force a release out to a group that is unlikely to use it. More than 24MPs is wanted by many users, but that target group isn't one of them. I could be wrong, as more and more Nikon and Sony pros will likely migrate to the higher resolution options leaving the Canon shooters with a decision make, but we'll see. That group isn't the quickest to jump on new trends.




Jun 26, 2022 at 11:21 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


That Guy wrote:
Once again, try reading what I wrote: (under the right conditions)

So where is the accuracy of you saying stitching does not work under the wrong conditions?


Speaking as a person who has used stitching, "the right conditions" are quite limited, and while stitching can compensate for (ahem) not having sufficient MP in the available camera to make a print in a very large size that retains the desired level of detail, it is a second-choice compromise for most photography.

Having a camera that supplies sufficient sensor resolution to make stitching unnecessary or at least extremely rare* is an advantage for people who need high resolution. I can think of no case in which stitching (in order to achieve a given level of resolution) is an equal or better option when a camera with sufficient resolution is available.

This seems plainly obvious, but apparently to you it isn't, so ...

1. High quality stitching requires extra-careful leveling of the camera and — at least for reliably high quality results — the use of a tripod.

2. Stitching requires an extra step in post that can range from semi-automated to one requiring quite a bit of manual intervention. High quality work typically requires the latter.

3. Unless one is photographing a completely static subject with controlled lighting, issues of changing light and moving subjects create stitching challenges that aren't present in single-exposure images. Anyone who has used stitching with subjects such a the surf, moving clouds, birds, windblown trees, and people understand this.

There are situations in which stitching is useful, of course.* It is certainly an option for occasional use by folks whose cameras have insufficient resolution to capture the image data they need. It can also be used to produce gigantic image files with extraordinary amounts of image date. beyond the capabilities of current cameras, as in the so-called giga-pixel images. But for anyone who is regularly producing photographs where higher resolution has benefits it is better to simply use a higher resolution system.

That Guy also expounded:
If anyone wants to keep buying every new camera that comes out with more MP, then go for it.




Well, sure. Thanks, but no. But, speaking of "try reading what [people] wrote," no one wrote that "anyone" plans to or should buy "every new camera that comes out with more MP."

Oh Great Master of Images, consider taking your own excellent advice about reading. ;-)

Dan

* I've licensed stitched images for extremely large reproductions of up to more than 30' wide.



Jun 26, 2022 at 12:36 PM
jedibrain
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


I feel like the release schedule around the Olympics has really been messed up by covid and also the switch to R mount. It is possible that we could go all the way to 2024 before we see an R1, but I would ot be surprised if it came out next year around the World Cup or another major event.

Sony is rumored to have an A1v2 next year as well (rumors...rumors...)



Jun 26, 2022 at 02:21 PM
Imagemaster
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Speaking.................

Well, sure. Thanks, but no. But, speaking of "try reading what [people] wrote," no one wrote that "anyone" plans to or should buy "every new camera that comes out with more MP."

Oh Great Master of Images, consider taking your own excellent advice about reading. ;-)

Dan

* I've licensed stitched images for extremely large reproductions of up to more than 30' wide.


I get a stitch in my side if I read all your idiosyncratic speeches.

Oh Great I've Done Everything, I will continue to take my own advice over yours. Unlike you, I find the HIDE ME option really beneficial UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS.



Jun 26, 2022 at 04:39 PM
Sy Sez
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


Canon's EOS 1 series has been it's top of the line body since it's 1989 introduction and has traditionally been prioritized to the needs of Professional Photojournalists, especially for Sports action.

I 1998 an EOS 3 sat below the the 1 for a period of time, with innovations such as Eye Controlled Focus and was a successor to the EOS-5.

How Canon sorts it all out when the 1-series MILC arrives is anybody's guess?



Jun 26, 2022 at 07:12 PM
johnvanr
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


These threads always become funny as people project their own needs and expectations to a manufacturer’s strategy based on much wider needs than a single individual.


Jun 26, 2022 at 08:03 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


A manufacturer only knows what the collective consumer base wants from personalized individual expectations. Without any individual input, it would be a crap shoot as to what gear we would have.


Jun 26, 2022 at 10:18 PM
 


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gdanmitchell
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


johnvanr wrote:
These threads always become funny as people project their own needs and expectations to a manufacturer’s strategy based on much wider needs than a single individual.


That was what my earlier comment about not designing cameras for the "average photographer" was about. Cameras are typically designed in a way to meet some specific edge-case needs (high MP, super-fast AF, quick and deep burst modes, size and weight issues, price, etc.) while also working for those who won't need every single feature provided.

No camera company can make enough models to perfectly match each individual photographer's ideal camera, so they are designed to be sufficient for the largest possible percentage of the target market. (This obviously isn't limited to cameras, either. It is pretty much a general, obvious principle in the design of almost all products.)

This doesn't negate creating cameras that are weighted towards a particular market segment — by strengthening performance in some areas at additional cost and the weakening of performance in others... or by targeting an audience with less specific, high-end needs with products that can be sold at lower cost.

Finally, this is a photography forum. Discussing — and speculating wildly about — photography stuff is what folks do here. That's not going to change.

Dan

Edited on Jun 28, 2022 at 08:37 AM · View previous versions



Jun 27, 2022 at 09:22 AM
johnvanr
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


TeamSpeed wrote:
A manufacturer only knows what the collective consumer base wants from personalized individual expectations. Without any individual input, it would be a crap shoot as to what gear we would have.


Or you can be like Steve Jobs and make something that you think people should want and then make them want it.



Jun 27, 2022 at 09:27 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


johnvanr wrote:
Or you can be like Steve Jobs and make something that you think people should want and then make them want it.


Yeah maybe, but his Jedi mind tricks never worked on me. My work provided an iphone for me to use years ago, and I still really don't like them. The latest one is pretty nice, and a bit more streamlined, but I am still a diehard Android fan. Pixelbook, all family members with Android phones and chromebooks.... with my one Apple product sitting in the mix.



Jun 27, 2022 at 10:07 AM
johnvanr
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


TeamSpeed wrote:
Yeah maybe, but his Jedi mind tricks never worked on me. My work provided an iphone for me to use years ago, and I still really don't like them. The latest one is pretty nice, and a bit more streamlined, but I am still a diehard Android fan. Pixelbook, all family members with Android phones and chromebooks.... with my one Apple product sitting in the mix.


Pretty sure that Android phone thanks its existence to the iPhone, though.



Jun 27, 2022 at 10:51 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


johnvanr wrote:
Pretty sure that Android phone thanks its existence to the iPhone, though.


Pretty sure that is incorrect.... at least from the perspective of the underlying OS. Now from a phone perspective, not sure, but I am sure there would have been an android phone whether there was Apple or not, the dates might have been a bit different though. What iOS did do was have the Google engineers re-evaluate their frameworks and remake them. So in one regard, Android pre-dates iOS, but from a different perspective, Android was "re-invented" for mobile devices because of iOS.


Android history begins in October 2003 — well before the term smartphone became ubiquitous, and several years before Apple’s announcement of the first iPhone and iOS. Android Inc was founded in Palo Alto, California. Rich Miner, Nick Sears, Chris White, and Andy Rubin were its four founders. At the time, Rubin mentioned Android Inc would develop “smarter mobile devices that are more aware of its owner’s location and preferences.”


Since both are based on the Linux OS, there are assuredly some overlaps over the years in functionality, etc, but it was Android that started the entire widget, multi home page design of a mobile device, along with multi-tasking. Now they are a blend of each other, because the best of ideas always become cross-pollinated. Of course Microsoft tried to extend their Windows CE and other flavors into a windows based phone, but too little too late, and they fell off the map in short order.

As to the ipod, back in the day, iRiver made a product that was spectacular and fully customizable, and would play more music formats. I miss my ol' iRiver!



Jun 27, 2022 at 11:32 AM
PhotoCyclist
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


johnvanr wrote:
These threads always become funny as people project their own needs and expectations to a manufacturer’s strategy based on much wider needs than a single individual.


It's true. Yet Manufacturers target a much broader base and cost-analysis.

I tend to read what people want etc in threads like these but it's something I never think about myself. I don't have any must-haves, needs, wants etc per se. That said, there is one theme of mine: smaller, lighter. But otherwise, I was happy with my 20D, then my next camera, then the next and so on.

I bought the new cameras because they make photography easier albeit if they never arrived I wouldn't have been upset. If camera tech stays at R5 level forever now, I'll be ok - I don't 'need' more. Yet, I'll buy the R5 mkii and so on simply because they will exist and will be even easier to make great images with.

If they ever make an R1 the size of the R5 I'd buy it. Don't need it. But just 'because'.

At some point, camera tech will make creating images so easy, Pro's will be out of a job. I literally took the place of a Pro at my sister-in-laws wedding. I'm no Pro but I had a 5D IV and a DJI drone. She asked me to do the wedding and was really happy. Now, I'm sure she could've had better images from a Pro but she felt my photo's were nice enough for her memories.

It's an entirely different discussion, but all these wants, needs, desires for better kit - it must surely be to the detriment of Pro's with every advancement. Or not, but to me it sure looks that way.




Jun 27, 2022 at 01:35 PM
cope07
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


I think based on what we’ve seen with Canon telephotos, Canon is not feeling pricing pressure. I think a discount on the R3 is wishful thinking (has Canon ever price cut a body that fast)? I think the R1, whatever it is, is a $7k body. Minimum. $8k wouldn’t surprise me. The R3 at $6k is a real line in the sand and a statement for what their pricing is now.

And in canon’s defense maybe that’s ok. With the R5&R3 a lot of Canon shooters who may have previously felt that they needed to go with a 1 series camera and perfectly happy and better suited with one of those too. That’s as charitable as I can be with Canon’s recent pricing.



Jun 28, 2022 at 08:13 AM
jedibrain
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Will Canon come out with a R1?


cope07 wrote:
I think based on what we’ve seen with Canon telephotos, Canon is not feeling pricing pressure. I think a discount on the R3 is wishful thinking (has Canon ever price cut a body that fast)? I think the R1, whatever it is, is a $7k body. Minimum. $8k wouldn’t surprise me. The R3 at $6k is a real line in the sand and a statement for what their pricing is now.

And in canon’s defense maybe that’s ok. With the R5&R3 a lot of Canon shooters who may have previously felt that they needed to go with a 1 series
...Show more

As to R3 pricing - "that soon" will be 2-3 years by the time a 1 series is out. Any price differentiation will probably be in the form of rebates or 'sales'. This happened to an extent with the R when the 5/6 came out as well. The other possibility is that R3 just gets discontinued. Is there room for an R5, R3 and R1? Maybe your theory is correct that they will purposefully split the former 1 series sales between the 1 and 3 lines. I guess we'll find out in about a year!

-Brian



Jun 28, 2022 at 09:40 AM
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