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Mirrorless D500 ?

  
 
Dbltfarmer
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Mirrorless D500 ?


Thank you. I am doing great now. I had 4 stints put in and a pacemaker after the HA. The EKG showed very little damage and the pacemaker was put in because my heart was stopping for 4 to 6 seconds while I slept. They found it during my stay in the hospital after the HA. It is amazing how far technology has come in the last 20 years. The surgeon that put in my pacemaker said that 20 years ago they did 2000 open heart surgeries a year. No they do 200. That is due to Cath labs and being able to put in stents not only through the groin but also through the wrist.

The medicines have also gotten better. They put me on injections bi-weekly of Repatha. In October my LDL cholesterol was 88, in March it was 11. Plus all the other cholesterol levels and tryglyerides were half of what they were in October.

I have also changed my diet considerably and getting more exercise. A new lease you might say but I realized that I'm going to enjoy things in my life more.

That is why I got the Z9. I have always wanted a pro body. I have had two D500's for quite some time and loved them. I've gradually picked up F mount lenses. About2 years ago, I got the D850 as I was doing more and more commercial work. Also one of my D500's was getting a large amount of Shutter activations. That is when I start using the D850 for the same kind of shooting I was doing with the D500's. I found that the D850 would do anything that my D500 would do and more. If I wanted longer range then I would put the camera in DX mode and honestly couldn't tell a difference than the D500. This was shooting D-1 Sports and wildlife.

About a year and half ago I purchased my first mirrorless camera with the Z6II. At first I really didn't like the camera and the focus settings. It seemed I was missing too many shots. I kept working with it and got better but still I nearly sold it multiple times. Then the HA came and I had plenty of time to study, learn and practice with the camera. I also began purchasing S lenses. 24-70 first and then by this past December I had the 70-200. I was getting images with the Z6II and the 70-200 f2.8 S on the basketball court that I couldn't get with the D500 or the D850 with my G model70-200 f2.8.

After I got my Z9, I traded or gave all of my camera gear to my brother. Thats another story to tell. Anyway, I now have the Z9, Z6II, 14-24S, 24-70S, 70-200S, 100-400S and the 300 and 500pf lenses. Since then I have never looked back and now see no need to have a cropped sensor camera. The only reason I might get one in the future is for speeding size that I don't think a high res Z8 will have. I feel like most of the time that the Z9 is not that much different than the D500 or D850 but thats just me. Below are images from the Z6II before I had the Z9. IMHO the Z6II is every bit as good if not better than a D500 once I learned to use it. The latest firmware update made it even better.

The images below are all from the Z6II with various lenses.




  NIKON Z 6_2    AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR lens    500mm    f/5.6    1/4000s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  











  NIKON Z 6_2    AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR lens    500mm    f/7.1    1/4000s    400 ISO    -0.3 EV  






  NIKON Z 6_2    NIKKOR Z 70-200mm f/2.8 VR S lens    200mm    f/7.1    1/3200s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  





Dbltfarmer 2022






  NIKON Z 6_2    NIKKOR Z 70-200mm f/2.8 VR S lens    115mm    f/13.0    1/800s    200 ISO    -0.7 EV  




May 28, 2022 at 02:59 PM
cvrle59
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Mirrorless D500 ?


Nikon new about development of ML aps-c cameras, I would be surprised if they didn't, so do we think Nikon would compete against X-H2s and R7 with some real D500 ML replacement?
Does X-H2s makes it any harder for Nikon, or it's irrelevant?



Jun 03, 2022 at 08:02 AM
2of9
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Mirrorless D500 ?


cvrle59 wrote:
Nikon new about development of ML aps-c cameras, I would be surprised if they didn't, so do we think Nikon would compete against X-H2s and R7 with some real D500 ML replacement?
Does X-H2s makes it any harder for Nikon, or it's irrelevant?


I am hoping Nikon is building a camera that 'beats' the X-H2s and the R7. Even having a 'mini' Z9 with a crop sensor would be an insane camera already.

Like other's said, if they released the Z9 and released a crop-sensor version of the Z9, that'd be a killer camera. It'd already be ahead of the R7 too. But, realistically, I have low expectations of that happening. If anything, the next DX MLC from Nikon will have goodies from the Z9. I'm also expecting to see Nikon to release the "D3500" mirrorless cameras...I think there was patents done for this already?

Since the DSLR market is fading away, Nikon is definitely throwing their resources into the MLC market. I just hope they're creating more DX MLC lenses.



Jun 03, 2022 at 08:55 AM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Mirrorless D500 ?


The D500 was a very successful camera for Nikon, and especially since the competition is doing it (only Fuji so far and probably Canon soon) I think we will probably see a "high end" APS-C camera from Nikon. The R7 is more of a mirrorless Rebel/70D. The formula they used for the D300/D700/D3 and later the D500/D850/D5 did so well for them I think it's safe to assume they will at least try to repeat that success. The tricky part this time around is that they can't trickle Z9 AF performance down the lineup (in the same way they did previously) without a stacked sensor, so fingers crossed that they do that - it was much easier to do with DSLRs because camera performance was not tied to sensor readout speed like it is now.


Jun 03, 2022 at 09:52 AM
cvrle59
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Mirrorless D500 ?


CanadaMark wrote:
The D500 was a very successful camera for Nikon, and especially since the competition is doing it (only Fuji so far and probably Canon soon) I think we will probably see a "high end" APS-C camera from Nikon. The R7 is more of a mirrorless Rebel/70D. The formula they used for the D300/D700/D3 and later the D500/D850/D5 did so well for them I think it's safe to assume they will at least try to repeat that success. The tricky part this time around is that they can't trickle Z9 AF performance down the lineup (in the same way they did
...Show more

I agree with you on stacked sensor, but I would think, if Fuji could access to an aps-c stacked sensor, Nikon shouldn't have an issue, it's available, most likely, from Sony.
It makes even more sense that Nikon requires it, Fuji's volume alone isn't that significant to produce it for reasonable cost.
That would be the other reason me to believe, Nikon is working on it!




Jun 03, 2022 at 09:59 AM
ChrisMak
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Mirrorless D500 ?


I think Nikon really dropped the ball by not doing a Z9 / Z900 double launch. They could have taken the initiative, but now have to let D500 users look at the Canon R7 and Fuji XH2s. A pity...


Jun 03, 2022 at 10:08 AM
cvrle59
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Mirrorless D500 ?


ChrisMak wrote:
I think Nikon really dropped the ball by not doing a Z9 / Z900 double launch. They could have taken the initiative, but now have to let D500 users look at the Canon R7 and Fuji XH2s. A pity...


Yes, I agree 100%!




Jun 03, 2022 at 10:12 AM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Mirrorless D500 ?


cvrle59 wrote:
I agree with you on stacked sensor, but I would think, if Fuji could access to an aps-c stacked sensor, Nikon shouldn't have an issue, it's available, most likely, from Sony.
It makes even more sense that Nikon requires it, Fuji's volume alone isn't that significant to produce it for reasonable cost.
That would be the other reason me to believe, Nikon is working on it!



Yes I think that Nikon will have a stacked sensor in their mirrorless D500 as well. If anything won't it will be the Z7iii/Z8, but fingers crossed those do too.

Depends on the price point Nikon is going for as well - if they try to keep it around $1999 like the D500, it might be more difficult to do a stacked sensor, but if they see that people are willing to pay up for a stacked sensor in the Fuji they might just raise the price $500 and give us everything.




Jun 03, 2022 at 10:22 AM
MRomine
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Mirrorless D500 ?


Wouldn't a perfect D/Z 500 be a Z9 set to crop mode? Then you would have all the features of a Z9.


Jun 03, 2022 at 11:22 AM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Mirrorless D500 ?


MRomine wrote:
Wouldn't a perfect D/Z 500 be a Z9 set to crop mode? Then you would have all the features of a Z9.


Just like with the D850/D500, if you had a gripped D850, there was virtually no reason to buy a D500 from a performance standpoint. You got ~20.4MP in DX mode, 9FPS (with grip) and pretty much full DX frame AF point coverage. The difference this time around is that there is no D5 equivalent and the Z9 is basically a D5/D850 all in one for the best of both worlds.

So unless size/weight was an issue (and I could see how it very well could be as the Z9 is a porker), there will probably be little other reason for an existing Z9 owner to get a mirrorless D500 just like the D850/D500 days. If they raise the resolution to ~30MP then it gets a little more interesting as that is equivalent to ~72MP on a full frame which is a noticeable increase in pixel density.



Jun 03, 2022 at 11:33 AM
 


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cvrle59
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Mirrorless D500 ?


MRomine wrote:
Wouldn't a perfect D/Z 500 be a Z9 set to crop mode? Then you would have all the features of a Z9.


What looks perfect to you, it doesn't to me, and most likely bunch of other people.
Why...simple, I don't want to spend $5500 on camera because of certain features only, especially camera with integrated grip, which is big and heavy.
If Fuji can make stacked sensor aps-c camera for $2500, Nikon should be able too, a few $100's up or down, not a big deal.
Wouldn't that be about $3000 of the difference, a nice lens could be purchased for that pile of cash?

You may say, go for Fuji then, easier said than done, Fuji has only 100-400mm that I don't like,
I tried two copies in past, or new 150-600mm, I don' like it either, F8 at 600mm is a crazy decision by Fuji, IMO.
I'm really looking forward to see if Nikon will make that step, until then, I'll be using my combo Z7II/100-400s.





Jun 03, 2022 at 11:43 AM
M_XG1_82
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Mirrorless D500 ?


I've posted up-thread what I'd like to see in a Nikon APS-C mirrorless camera and even if Nikon has the desire to create such a camera: 1) I don't think they have the production capacity to meet demand. And 2) The Z9 is still on back order and Nikon is not going to risk someone cancelling their $5,500 pre-order because the "dream APS-C" camera better meets their needs for $3000 less money.

I also agree with the last few posters. The D850 speed and resolution did, kinda, make the D500 redundant. And also a gripped D850 is bigger, heavier and more expensive then a bare D500 so is also undesirable by some.

If Nikon were to put out an APS-C camera it will likely need a 50% increase in MP vs the current FX camera to prevent another D850/D500 situation.

45MP / (1.5*1.5) = 20MP 1.5x crop. (17.6MP Canon 1.6x crop)
61MP / (1.5*1.5) = 27.1MP 1.5x crop. (23.8MP Canon 1.6x crop)
72MP / (1.5*1.5) = 32MP 1.5x crop. (28.1MP Canon 1.6x crop)
83MP / (1.5*1.5) = 36.9MP 1.5x crop. (32.4MP Canon 1.6x crop)

I think the Z8 might ship before a Z90 with a 72-83 MP censor which would give the needed APS-C crop resolution to make a Z90 viable.

And this is important to remember. It's 2022 and NOT 2012. The ILC camera market is one-quarter of what it was 10 years ago and will never rebound back up to those levels. With overall market for APS-C cameras a lot lower, Nikon's 20% share of that just might not be enough overall production units to make the R&D costs of a pro-level APS-C camera viable.



Jun 03, 2022 at 12:36 PM
Waynedb123
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Mirrorless D500 ?


MRomine wrote:
Wouldn't a perfect D/Z 500 be a Z9 set to crop mode? Then you would have all the features of a Z9.


Are you going to send us the $3000-$3500 to cover the difference in price? If not then it is not the perfect choice.



Jun 03, 2022 at 12:46 PM
Rimpson
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Mirrorless D500 ?


Waynedb123 wrote:
Are you going to send us the $3000-$3500 to cover the difference in price? If not then it is not the perfect choice.


Not to mention the size/weight aspect....the Z9 is a big body. For me the D500 is the perfect size and flexible with an optional grip without giving up performance.




Jun 03, 2022 at 06:42 PM
Rimpson
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Mirrorless D500 ?


" If they raise the resolution to ~30MP then it gets a little more interesting as that is equivalent to ~72MP on a full frame which is a noticeable increase in pixel density."


Exactly. If it comes out I predict a backlog similar to the Z9. If the main "ingredients" are similar to the Z9 I will prefer the "Z90" unless I am in a low light situation.

I am going to grab a few frames that may help the folks that say just crop a full frame understand.

Edited on Jun 03, 2022 at 07:01 PM · View previous versions



Jun 03, 2022 at 06:48 PM
Rimpson
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Mirrorless D500 ?


I have many images similar to the following that were shot with "FX" glass. All of them are crops of a "crop" camera except for the dragonfly which was uncropped but shot with a "short" 300 PF lens. All these images would have had less pixels if they were shot with a full frame and then cropped not to mention the probability of being less sharp because they were so small in the frame.

A 30+ MP crop camera allows one to have a huge FOV range when paired with a full frame camera.

I think Canon is smart in releasing the R7.

Edited on Jun 07, 2022 at 08:35 AM · View previous versions



Jun 03, 2022 at 06:57 PM
MRomine
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Mirrorless D500 ?


cvrle59 wrote:
What looks perfect to you, it doesn't to me, and most likely bunch of other people.
Why...simple, I don't want to spend $5500 on camera because of certain features only, especially camera with integrated grip, which is big and heavy.
If Fuji can make stacked sensor aps-c camera for $2500, Nikon should be able too, a few $100's up or down, not a big deal.
Wouldn't that be about $3000 of the difference, a nice lens could be purchased for that pile of cash?

You may say, go for Fuji then, easier said than done, Fuji has only 100-400mm that I don't like,
...Show more

You're taking me way too seriously.



Jun 03, 2022 at 07:09 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Mirrorless D500 ?


Imagemaster wrote:
Initial reviewers that have shot with the R7 claim it has better AF than the Z9.



The difficulty with the R7, IMO, is not going to be the AF, it is going to be the slow sensor scan speed. The camera is not going to be able to use the high fps and silent shooting in electronic shutter mode without having issues with movement distortion. This limits the camera substantially and especially for wildlife. If Nikon builds a high level APS-C camera I hope they don't make the same mistake and build a camera with a very fast sensor scan speed (like the Z9) which probably means they need a stacked BSI sensor and the price of the camera would be substantially more than the R7.

If Nikon wants to compete with the R7, then I would expect something like a Z70 without a fast sensor scan speed, but, IMO, it won't be a mirrorless D500 unless it has the fast sensor scan speed and can shoot with an electronic shutter without problems with movement distortion.

A high MP FF camera (i.e., something like 80 MP) will also likely be challenged by sensor scan speed. I expect a camera like that from Nikon in the next couple of years, but that won't be an alternative for action photography for the Z9. It will be great for still and slow moving targets, but not for fast moving ones as it too would almost certainly have serious issues with slow sensor scan speed.



Jun 04, 2022 at 07:17 AM
Rimpson
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Mirrorless D500 ?


Per Nikon Rumors......"Nikon will also announce a new APS-C mirrorless camera I will have another post on that soon.".......could it be the "baby Z9"

https://nikonrumors.com/2022/06/06/breaking-nikon-to-announce-a-new-nikkor-z-400mm-f-4-5-mirrorless-lens-very-soon.aspx/



Jun 06, 2022 at 02:16 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Mirrorless D500 ?


Rimpson wrote:
Per Nikon Rumors......"Nikon will also announce a new APS-C mirrorless camera I will have another post on that soon.".......could it be the "baby Z9"

https://nikonrumors.com/2022/06/06/breaking-nikon-to-announce-a-new-nikkor-z-400mm-f-4-5-mirrorless-lens-very-soon.aspx/


I'd be surprised if they managed to keep a high profile camera like that under wraps (it would be the first time ever if they did) so for that reason I'd be more inclined to believe it's an entry level model. Hopefully I'm wrong though.



Jun 06, 2022 at 02:38 PM
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