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MIchigan Airshow

kungfu-lens
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · MIchigan Airshow

Anyone going to the Airshow this year?Any tip on setting for canon 1dx mark II for Airshow?

Finally get to used my 1dx Mark II and Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens with 2.0 extender.

Been in the case for 4 yrs without using it.

May 23, 2022 at 05:24 PM

Cicopo
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · MIchigan Airshow

Use AI Servo for the AF, max shutter speed for prop planes should be 1/320 for some prop blur & a bit slower for a bit more. Use 1/1600 or 1/2000 for jets. Of note props planes use high RPM's on take off & high speed low passes but lower RPM's for slow & low passes or landings so a slower shutter speed than the 1/320 is a better choice. Frame rate is up to you but shoot in 3 or 4 frame sets as you track the aircraft. If you're not really great at panning try to keep a particular spot on the plane as the spot you try to focus on. I prefer all AF points on at the shutter button & single point activated by the back focus button.

May 24, 2022 at 06:54 PM

Sage11
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · MIchigan Airshow

- Wear headphones that have the best noise reduction performance you can find. Airshows typically have an array of multiple speakers that blast the music during the entire show, in addition to the noise from the jets and other aircraft.

- I prefer paid premium seating and I sit in the front row, so no one can block my view when they stand up.

- I use servo mode, auto iso, stop down my apertures, and manage shutter speeds for the type of aircraft.

- I find the 9 auto focus points especially effective in tracking aircraft.

- I find hand holding lighter camera and lens combinations work best. I would not be able to hand hold the 1DX Mark II and EF400mm f2.8 II for any meaningful length of time.

- In 2019 I shot an airshow with my 1DX Mark II and the EF100-400 L version 2 with the 1.4x III extender. I was disappointed with the shots because the sharpness suffered when using the 1.4x extender on the zoom lens.

- Last weekend I shot an airshow with the 7D Mark II and the bare EF100-400mm L version 2 and I was extremely happy with the shots.

- Enjoy and don't forget the sunscreen.

May 25, 2022 at 12:51 PM

Cicopo
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · MIchigan Airshow

My air show rig is the same for full scale or radio control events. I use the 28-300 L IS on a 1D4 for flight line use at the RC events or for team photos such as the Snowbirds performing in formations along the flight line zone. I use my 7D2 and Sigma 150-600 C for the longer range shots or show passes over the runway at the full scale events. Other than shutter speeds my settings are pretty much the same. I set my ISO so that while zoomed out to max magnification at the shutter speed I want I get an aperture of F 8 or very close to that. Prior to getting the Sigma I relied on the original 100-400 L IS & now have Ver 2 of it but prefer the extra reach of the Sigma.

May 26, 2022 at 07:57 AM

schlotz
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · MIchigan Airshow

IMO, the 400 f/2.8 is not the lens for an airshow given the weight and being limited to one focal length. If you don't have one, rent the 100-400 latest version.

May 26, 2022 at 08:19 AM

racoll
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · MIchigan Airshow

Great tips from everyone here! For prop planes I typically shoot at 1/160 or 1/180 to get good prop blur. This usually works out well for me. I hope to get to some airshows this year, although there haven't been too many here in Indiana lately. This was from 2019 and shot with my 5D2; hopefully I'll have an opportunity to use both the 7D2 and R6 this year.

May 26, 2022 at 09:52 AM

kungfu-lens
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · MIchigan Airshow

Thank you everyone

May 26, 2022 at 08:01 PM

Sage11
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · MIchigan Airshow

Is the Sigma lens' auto focus speed when tracking fast moving subjects comparable to the Canon 100-40mm version 2? I find the Canon lens' auto focus speed to be superb.

Cicopo wrote:
My air show rig is the same for full scale or radio control events. I use the 28-300 L IS on a 1D4 for flight line use at the RC events or for team photos such as the Snowbirds performing in formations along the flight line zone. I use my 7D2 and Sigma 150-600 C for the longer range shots or show passes over the runway at the full scale events. Other than shutter speeds my settings are pretty much the same. I set my ISO so that while zoomed out to max magnification at the shutter speed I want...Show more →

May 27, 2022 at 03:37 AM

Sage11
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · MIchigan Airshow

I struggle to get sharp pictures of prop planes at such low shutter speeds. What is the secret for success?

racoll wrote:
Great tips from everyone here! For prop planes I typically shoot at 1/160 or 1/180 to get good prop blur. This usually works out well for me. I hope to get to some airshows this year, although there haven't been too many here in Indiana lately. This was from 2019 and shot with my 5D2; hopefully I'll have an opportunity to use both the 7D2 and R6 this year.

May 27, 2022 at 03:40 AM

Cicopo
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · MIchigan Airshow

There is a difference between the Sigma 150-600 C & Canon 100-400 L IS ver 2 but it's not as big as one might think. For full scale events it's not an issue 99% of the time because of the distance between you & the aircraft performing. For my RC events it's a bit more of an issue because of the size & speed of the model aircraft but it proved time & time again it's up to my needs. At times I use the Ver 2 Canon but I would much rather have the extra 200 mm of reach.
Re shutter speeds while panning for prop blur it's all about the practicing & like golf the follow through. I get lots & lots of practice at my RC events which allow higher shutter speeds (high revving engines compared to full scale) but their speeds are much faster (related to their scale to full sized aircraft) & they are much closer to me for the majority of shots. Panning is a skill that gets better the more often you do it. It also helps to have a lens with a panning IS system & both the Sigma & Canon have that. If you're struggling for sharp images start at a higher shutter speed & work your way down comparing the results but remember my note re engine RPM's in my first post here.

From the Sigma / 7D2 @1/160


	7D2_5673 by Larry Ingram, on Flickr

This one is taking off so higher RPM's are being used. 1D4, 28-300 L IS @1/160


	http://INGR8677 by Larry Ingram, on Flickr

I hadn't mentioned it but the small high performance aerobatic aircraft almost always run at high RPM's while performing which will allow 1/400 & maybe another step faster. This shot is from the Sigma / 7D2 @ 1/320


	http://7D2_4153 by Larry Ingram, on Flickr

And as I mentioned earlier you can shoot the jets at BIF shutter speeds which allows nice crisp images but you still need to pan with their flight path. The Sigma & 7D2 @ 1/2000


	7D2_5570 by Larry Ingram, on Flickr

May 27, 2022 at 08:45 AM

Ray Swindle
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · MIchigan Airshow

Sage11 wrote:
I struggle to get sharp pictures of prop planes at such low shutter speeds. What is the secret for success?

What I do before an airshow with props is take photos of vehicles on a highway. I am fortunate to have a 60 mph road about 1500 feet from my front porch (I live on a farm). I set my shutter to the speed I want to use on the prop planes and practice panning with the vehicles as they travel across the highway. I particularly like to shoot vehicles with signs or lettering so I can evaluate the sharpness. It is all about practice for me.

May 27, 2022 at 10:22 AM

Sage11
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · MIchigan Airshow

Ray Swindle wrote:
What I do before an airshow with props is take photos of vehicles on a highway. I am fortunate to have a 60 mph road about 1500 feet from my front porch (I live on a farm). I set my shutter to the speed I want to use on the prop planes and practice panning with the vehicles as they travel across the highway. I particularly like to shoot vehicles with signs or lettering so I can evaluate the sharpness. It is all about practice for me.

https://www.rayswindlepix.com/img/s/v-10/p2271758937-5.jpg

Thank you for the excellent tip. I never would have considered practicing using cars, but it's a great way to improve panning skills.

May 27, 2022 at 11:25 AM

Sage11
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · MIchigan Airshow

Thanks for the great tips. I have been using the IS mode 1. I'll start using IS mode 2 and practice low shutter speed pans. Currently, I can get sharp shots with a shutter speed at around 1/640, which doesn't result in any prop blur. I'll take a closer look at the Sigma 150-600C the next time it goes on sale. I had planned on getting the R7 and the RF100-500, but after doing some research, I realized the R7 is not a viable replacement for my 7DM2.

Cicopo wrote:

There is a difference between the Sigma 150-600 C & Canon 100-400 L IS ver 2 but it's not as big as one might think. For full scale events it's not an issue 99% of the time because of the distance between you & the aircraft performing. For my RC events it's a bit more of an issue because of the size & speed of the model aircraft but it proved time & time again it's up to my needs. At times I use the Ver 2 Canon but I would much rather have the extra 200 mm of reach....Show more →

May 27, 2022 at 11:32 AM

Cicopo
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · MIchigan Airshow

The question of how sharp is sharp enough changes big time when panning is involved & even more when lower than desired shutter speeds are needed for prop blur or wheel / tire & background blur at a car race. When I got the Sigma I had ver 1 of the Canon 100-400 L IS which I had used for tens of thousands of RC event photos. Once I had the Sigma I kept practicing on this particular plane when it was flown to try to fully evaluate the sharpness but I was doing it at prop blur shutter speeds. One day I decided to simply do it using BIF shutter speeds & this is the result. The model is traveling across the sky at about 200 feet off the deck & rolling constantly throughout the pass. The first low res photo shows the full frame & then I cropped that for a high res comparison as well as rotated it. The writing on the wing is the full set of autographs of the Snowbird pilots from 2 or 3 years before my photo plus that of ISS Commander Chris Hadfield. Hand held & I was at least 75 feet back from the runway area. The wing span is listed as 88 inches. Photo is from the 1D4 & Sigma 150-600 C at 468 mm and at 1/2000


	INGR8977v1-002 by Lawrence Ingram, on Flickr


	INGR8977v1-001 by Lawrence Ingram, on Flickr

May 27, 2022 at 12:59 PM

jedibrain
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · MIchigan Airshow

Sage11 wrote:
Thanks for the great tips. I have been using the IS mode 1. I'll start using IS mode 2 and practice low shutter speed pans. Currently, I can get sharp shots with a shutter speed at around 1/640, which doesn't result in any prop blur. I'll take a closer look at the Sigma 150-600C the next time it goes on sale. I had planned on getting the R7 and the RF100-500, but after doing some research, I realized the R7 is not a viable replacement for my 7DM2.

Can I ask how you arrived at the conclusion the r7 is not a viable 7d2 replacement? I never had a 7d. But the R7 is higher res, faster FPS, and two or three generations improved AF - really a whole different AF level of tech and performance. Can't imagine what it can't do that the 7d2 did. Been thinking of one as a companion to my R6. Looks great for fast action, but apparently I'm missing something.

Brian

May 27, 2022 at 02:25 PM

Sage11
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · MIchigan Airshow

Yes, no problem at all. Let me first say that when I shoot an all-day airshow, I take thousands of pictures with my gripped body 7DM2 and EF100-400mm L V2. I may only change batteries either 0 or 1 time at most during the entire event. I have two issues with the R7, which prevent me from considering it as a viable replacement for my 7DM2: (1) It appears to have a minimum battery level requirement to achieve its 15 frames per second in mechanical shutter mode, like the R5 and R6 require to achieve their 12 frames per second; and (2) the R7 does not appear to be capable of being fitted with a Canon battery grip. The R7 review at "the-digital-picture.com" noted that the R7 lacks the holes on the camera's bottom that are required for battery grip pins. Note: The R7's electronic shutter does not have this battery level constraint, but the R7's rolling shutter effect appears to be so bad, I would not use it at airshows.

During an all-day airshow, these two issues would likely require me to make multiple battery changes when battery capacity reaches approximately 50% or less and that I carry around pockets full of 1/2 charged batteries due to a mirror-less camera's inherent higher power requirements. This is not practical for me when shooting a fast-paced and dynamic airshow. Thanks.

jedibrain wrote:
Can I ask how you arrived at the conclusion the r7 is not a viable 7d2 replacement? I never had a 7d. But the R7 is higher res, faster FPS, and two or three generations improved AF - really a whole different AF level of tech and performance. Can't imagine what it can't do that the 7d2 did. Been thinking of one as a companion to my R6. Looks great for fast action, but apparently I'm missing something.

Brian

May 27, 2022 at 04:26 PM

racoll
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · MIchigan Airshow

May 27, 2022 at 08:14 PM

Mhcooperphotography
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · MIchigan Airshow

I have shot the Chicago Air and Water show for several years and each year I get a little better. It takes a lot of practice panning with jets and following the prop planes up into the air. Most recently (2019) I used a Canon 5D Mark III with the original Canon 100-400. I agree with someone that said they did not like their pictures with the teleconverter. I have tries it (both a 1.4 and a 2.0). One thing I tend to do is meter on a set of trees in the distance and not try and meter on the planes themselves. I sometimes have to open or stop down but for the most part the sky is the sky all over. I set the ISO and use Aperture Priority. This year I have an R5 with a 100-500 ... can not wait until August - blue Angels will be here again.

The one show I went to where you could buy tickets (Chicago is along the lake front and I go on practice day - much less crowded) - I bought tickets so I could get a show center spot.


	https://mhcooperphotography.smugmug.com/Private/Airshows/Chicago-Air-Show-2019/i-T9x93xz

ISO 200 400mm f5.6 1/640 +5/3 EV


	https://mhcooperphotography.smugmug.com/Private/Airshows/Chicago-Air-Show-2019/i-3j76zZT

ISO 200 400mm f5.6 1/640 +5/3 EV


	https://mhcooperphotography.smugmug.com/Private/Airshows/Chicago-Air-Show-2019/i-4NvpSk9/A

ISO 200 250mm f5.6 1/640 +5/3 EV


	https://mhcooperphotography.smugmug.com/Private/Airshows/Chicago-Air-Show-2019/i-MkChmrp/A

ISO 200 320mm f6.3 1/1000 +4/3 EV


	https://mhcooperphotography.smugmug.com/Private/Airshows/Chicago-Air-Show-2017/i-QxTHdmr

ISO 400 320mm f8 1/1000 +1 EV
This is one of my favorites - it is cropped but you can see the water vapor very clearly coming off the wings

May 27, 2022 at 08:22 PM

Cicopo
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · MIchigan Airshow

I use Exposure Compensation for the fine tuning of my exposures as the day changes. Everyone has a favorite way of hitting a good combo but because my regular action is model aircraft they take up a lot less sky in a frame. On overcast days EC is even more important for the way I shoot.

May 27, 2022 at 09:27 PM

jedibrain
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · MIchigan Airshow

Sage11 wrote:
Yes, no problem at all. Let me first say that when I shoot an all-day airshow, I take thousands of pictures with my gripped body 7DM2 and EF100-400mm L V2. I may only change batteries either 0 or 1 time at most during the entire event. I have two issues with the R7, which prevent me from considering it as a viable replacement for my 7DM2: (1) It appears to have a minimum battery level requirement to achieve its 15 frames per second in mechanical shutter mode, like the R5 and R6 require to achieve their 12 frames per second;...Show more →

Thanks for that explanation. I had many of the same concerns when I picked up an R6. Battery life is poorer on mirrorless than DSLR, but its just something you get used to. A useful 'life hack' on this is to run the camera in airplane mode. The battery lasts a lot longer and will get the green H+ mode all the way down to about 13% (on the R6). I assume the result would be about the same on the R7 but until someone tests it we won't know. It also extends the battery life a lot. I can get a fully 3 game soccer tournament on a single battery. That's about 4.5-6hrs of being on the eyepiece, and about 1,500 to 2,000 photos per game. Though the photos don't actually use that much power. Its running the EVF and AF system. If I take 800 total or 6000 total, I don't see that much different in battery life.

Also, just because the little alignment nibs aren't there doesn't mean there can't or won't be a battery grip. There are other examples of Canon cameras like that in one of the R7 threads around here. Though this is another thing we can only wait and see.

But if changing batteries is a big issue, then you'll be in DSLR land for the foreseeable future. I don't use my 5D3 for much anymore, but I do sometimes still think about its super long battery life, comparatively.

Brian

May 27, 2022 at 09:50 PM

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