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A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.

  
 
Neurad1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Look. I know I am FAR from being a great photographer. But I get a few decent shots off. I've been on Flickr now for years and I see photos there that seem less interestingly composed, exposed, etc than mine. But I get maybe a single "like" whereas other folks' photos get 20s to 100s of likes. It's disheartening and I'd really like to understand how to DO better...(i.e. not merely to feel better).

I'm not looking for psychotherapy here. Does anyone know if there are algorithms or something that might explain why even what I consider my best shots get so little love? Or if you're willing, might you comment on where my photography needs work? Please?

I appreciate any feedback you can provide. And please be kind. I'm not saying that "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all", but please don't be mean-spririted just because you can.

Thanks in advance.



May 14, 2022 at 10:23 AM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Likes are a stupid form of validation. Plenty of people game social media to get likes from bots. Likes are by no means a reliable metric of quality. Engagement on social media are often "tit-for-tat" meaning you need to be following that person and actively commenting and liking their work. Often times a like is more of a semi-forced social interaction rather than an expression of actually liking and admiring a picture.

When people are worried about likes, they usually have a missing piece elsewhere in their life that they are trying to fill. You don't want psychotherapy, but your concern is a dopamine-rush-based complaint, so that's what you'll get.

Now, if you want feedback on your photos, they strike me as things that would interest you more than anyone else. They may be well composed and well exposed, but as a casual passerby, your Flickr feed looks largely "snapshot" based. For example, do you expect a stranger to be genuinely interested in a photo like this one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joelcure/51915423462/in/dateposted/ ? There's very little storytelling here. Now you might look at this photo and fondly remember the day, but that doesn't translate to anyone else.

On the flipside, you do have shots that are eyecatching such as this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joelcure/52062928018/in/dateposted/ You need not have been in your shoes to be caught by such a scene, and you captured it well.

I personally use Flickr as a dumping ground/backup solution and not as a gallery. If I want to show people my work in a focused way, I'd make my own website, use IG, participate in a gallery exhibition, etc.

Edited on May 14, 2022 at 10:54 AM · View previous versions



May 14, 2022 at 10:51 AM
Neurad1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Thanks for your candor.


May 14, 2022 at 10:53 AM
Zayne12
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Do you tag your photos at all? That might bring in some engagement. But in all honesty looking for validity on flikr or Instagram for that matter won't bring any unfortunately. I know exactly what you're talking about, I've even paid fb to advertise my profile and still hardly get a few hundred likes on Instagram. There is a way to game the system which I'm not sure of the exact detail. I've been thinking more and more of entering competitions to see how I stack up but have yet to do so so far.


May 14, 2022 at 11:08 AM
Dultimate
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


I haven't done the research on how long you've been on Flickr but I can tell from past experience that you need to find groups and add your photos to them. The labels and tags are also important to generate traffic towards your pictures, whatever they may be.

Once you start tagging them and adding them to groups, large pool of groups if you are interested in getting eyes on your photos, you will start seeing more likes. This will lead to more people following you that have the same interest in your types of photos, which will in turn put your photos on their feed. After that whenever you upload a photo, followers will give you likes, the tags and groups will bring more eyes, giving you more followers, etc etc.

I believe this is largely true regardless of what the photos are of but obviously some types of pics are going to get more eyes on them than others.



May 14, 2022 at 11:20 AM
Elusivesouls
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


This probably isn't what you want to hear, but it is something I've gone through myself and felt like sharing in case it helps.

Take a moment and realize almost every platform you post to has some sort of validation system that allows people to say whether or not your photo is perceived to be good. You can't post something online today without there being some sort of Like or Love button on it and this adds a lot of stress to posting things and sharing things because you're no longer making the image taking process about what you like but about what others like. We've built an entire social network online that allows others to put you into a position of questioning whether or not your efforts are worth it and good enough.

The question is, is that what photography is for you? Are you doing this for yourself or are you doing it for others?

If it is for you, then I'd recommend working on focusing on that and not worrying about what others think because the reality is most people have so much content shoved down their throats every single day and literally are inundated with hundreds upon hundreds of images, videos, and other content all day every day to the point that a lot of it just becomes another great image among thousands of other great images.

Me, personally, I came to realize my images are primarily for my own enjoyment and that helps make it easier not to care what others think about the images. If you like it, then you like it, if not, it doesn't matter, because it was for me in the first place. I do enjoy it when others like my photos, but I came to realize the point is for me and me alone to enjoy it. The rest is just a fringe benefit.

Now if I was doing this for paid clients, that's a different matter altogether. Or if I was doing it for an audience (such as a content creator) then yeah, I can understand wanting to make the product match their wants.

Edited on May 14, 2022 at 11:35 AM · View previous versions



May 14, 2022 at 11:31 AM
birdied
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


As Scott stated, in no way do likes indicate the quality of oneís work. Too many variables involved in likes that have nothing to do with the work displayed. Sincere validation and appreciation of our efforts from our peers is always pleasing and appreciated greatly.

However, when you decide to take a photo, who is it for? What makes you take that particular shot ? Do you have in mind that you want some likes for it or do you simply think what a lovely scene . Does the work you create make you smile ? Does it bring back fond memories ? Are you happy with what you created ? In many ways that is a validation that is priceless.

I know people who only want to take shots if they feel it will win some contest . For me, I view my photography as a way to get out , enjoy nature , spend some time where the worries of the life just disappear as I refocus on the beauty that waits my discovery.

I am not on Flickr, but did go look at your work. Your albums of favorites has some gorgeous shots.
On the page that loads when you go to your site, the first page has some beautiful black and white shots. I am not a landscape or architecture shooter, so no critique, but some lovely work there. Lots donít like my style or subject matter (bugs, birds, macro, water drops) , but that is okay.

My hard drives are full of photos that will probably just be thrown away when I am no longer here . I just know that the joy photography has given me , the friends and acquaintances I have met through photography are the ďlikesĒ that matter the most.

Birdie
















May 14, 2022 at 11:32 AM
doc4x5
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


To get honest feedback on your images, it's probably best to better choose your audience. I don't often look at Flikr, though I have an account. Having random, unknown people judge your photos is not likely to get you what you want. "Likes" on Flikr or Facebook say more about the viewers than the subject viewed.

I am not a psychotherapist, nor are you my patient but, no offense intended, "likes" are a pretty shallow measure of one's art. I do not know what the photographic scene is where you live, but it would be nice to try and find a local group (not a "salon" with silly rules and contests) of like minded people to meet and look at each others' work.

I am fortunate to have opportunities to share prints with like minded photographers many of whose work I know well from having seen it over the years. Five of us meet monthly in person (with masks) to show four, no more, matted prints. We each look, then each comment. At the end the photographer comments. We are all a bit different, one person does street work locally, another shows street work from travel, a couple are traditional landscape photographers. It's an impressive learning experience for all.

There are no cheap shots, after all the person is right there in front of you. But it's a whole lot more than a thumbs up or down. I am certain there are other ways to accomplish the same thing, intelligent evaluation of one's prints, artistically and technically.



May 14, 2022 at 11:43 AM
ruthenium
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Worrying about the likes is not healthy. Myself, I give them without thinking much to others on the threads I am following. This is simply to make the contributors feel comfortable, supported, and welcomed (most people need support and kindness). I know that they would not necessarily reciprocate, and I see no good reason to worry about that. My reason to make photos public (here and on Flickr) is to "self-censor" my work. I still keep too many pictures, and should cull more aggressively. Nevertheless, asking myself how my pictures might look to others, in addition to deciding if they look good to me, helps culling.



May 14, 2022 at 11:54 AM
cinema
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


first of all, add your pictures to groups. search groups on flickr that match up with the photo content. your pictures arenít interesting in terms of Ďartí but they seem like something people in certain groups would be interested in, such as traditional and residential architecture or something. they just seem like snapshots. which is fine. not everyone can be basquiat. flickr is interesting because its old internet. weird fetish people, old euro boomers posting snapshots, and film art people. itís a weird graveyard of dead internet stuff and, more importantly, a great repository of undiscovered film photographers. donít take it too seriously. if you really crave the validation just spam your stuff on a ton of different groups and comment and like other peoples stuff theyíll scratch your back if you scratch theirs. also use tags.

Edited on May 14, 2022 at 12:02 PM · View previous versions



May 14, 2022 at 11:59 AM
 


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Grenache
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


As Scott said, Likes and Comments on Flickr rarely correlate with quality and instead are more about people self-promoting or auto-liking each otherís stuff in a quid pro quo manner. Several ďadminsĒ for groups just rotate between the same half dozen two word comments and hit literally every photo posted to that group. Bleh.

I like aspects of Flickrís format and really like the search engine/indexing, but I donít post there to get likes. I also like that many people there either geotag their images or provide location info. I have in that way found out-of-the-way locations to shoot landscapes and have benefited from that when trip or excursion planning.

You have many nice images. Be content and confident in that, and ignore the likes you get or donít get.

Jim



May 14, 2022 at 12:01 PM
rji2goleez
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Neurad1 wrote:
Look. I know I am FAR from being a great photographer. But I get a few decent shots off. I've been on Flickr now for years and I see photos there that seem less interestingly composed, exposed, etc than mine. But I get maybe a single "like" whereas other folks' photos get 20s to 100s of likes. It's disheartening and I'd really like to understand how to DO better...(i.e. not merely to feel better).

I'm not looking for psychotherapy here. Does anyone know if there are algorithms or something that might explain why even what I consider my best shots
...Show more

As Jim says above. Worry more about whether you like the results you're getting and less about likes. "Like what you shoot, shoot what you like." On the other hand, join groups and gain friends. Groups and friends are sure fire way to get more likes. There are so many groups on flickr . . . based on the camera or lens you shot with, groups based on location, subject matter both broad and specific. When you post an image, make sure to also have it posted in relevant groups and several of them.



May 14, 2022 at 12:18 PM
DaveFP
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


From my Flickr "About" page:

"Please note that while I enjoy being Fav'd/Followed I have no interest in a quid pro quo (fav for fav; follow for follow) relationship with other Flickr members."

I shoot for myself.

I know who I am and what my images represent to ME.

I don't look for favs and followers to validate me.

Don't care whether or not I get Explored (although I have 54 "Explored" images)

What does bring me pride is that I have about a dozen images that have been used for various internet and print articles. I'll admit that I find that validating; particularly so as I consider myself an intermediate photographer.

My images were found because I make sure that they are carefully tagged. (I almost never add images to groups)

Having an image published is a lot of fun and I make sure everyone knows about it.




May 14, 2022 at 12:34 PM
JeyB
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


For my part, there is no question that likes means nothing at all. Who is who press the like button? Another person? A bot? Someone with exquisite taste? Someone with no eye for photography? Things shouldn't work this way. You and only you are your best judge and liker.

I will tell you a personal story. From time to time I publish some photograph on my IG account. An absolutely unattended account by the way (about 200 followers), and totally independent from my professional career as photographer. I post motorbikes photos, bird photos, abstract photos... all what I really like, but which lot of people may not.

Last year one or two of my not very popular motorbikes photographs was re-published by countless specialties curators from different motor oriented accounts. Some of these photos were liked by thousands of people. One of those reposted photos was a very nice photo of a heavily customized Harley Davidson 883 and it received more than 31.000 likes in one motorbike IG account (account that by the way had only 25.000 followers in that moment). This photograph received combined likes in more than 16 reposted accounts, ascending to more that 60.000 likes, so I finally lost count for the final numbers. Everywhere I looked at... there it was my Harley photograph with my credits reposted. Lol, even on AliExpress you could buy T-shirts with my photograph printed in them! I simply did nothing about it, why bother? If they thought the photo was cute, why not allow them to use it despite not disposing with my copyright permission for printing on clothes?

The moral of this story is that my life was not changed, my self esteem as a photographer did not change, neither my skills. My phone did not ringed for one only time asking me for more photographs. Nothing, absolutely nothing changed. Of course, it was a funny moment, looking in my phone how the likes accumulated second by second at the speed of light It was hilarious, but in the end nothing changed.

So, don't you worry for the likes, they may be likes or not. Who knows... Your own photographs are your sons and daughters, to your eyes there is no more beautiful babies in the world, despite it's not true. Keep on shooting if that is what you like and forget about social media engineering. It's not worth the effort.

By the way, here is the ubiquitous photograph that I was referring to. Shot with Canon 5D mark II, 70-200 f2.8 L IS and one simple out of camera beauty dish speedlight about 9 years ago, when I still shooted Canon gear.







May 14, 2022 at 12:43 PM
Dr Al
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Likes are for people who see a 300x600 pic on facebook of a baby making a mess while eating. I only use Flickr for hosting pics on line. I could easily use one of the other options but with Flickr random people see them. On occasion I'll look at how many people found them interesting enough to click on the image.

The problem is that on facebook it's easy to like and add comments. Flickr you kind of need to know what to click if you want to leave a comment. So average viewers most likely don't know they can like or leave a comment. I can only guess just how many images are uploaded that are public everyday. I'm betting a lot. So the odds of someone randomly seeing your image and then opening it up is pretty small. Like others have said, join groups where like minded people are who know how Flickr works.



May 14, 2022 at 12:45 PM
Douglas L
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Elusivesouls wrote:
This probably isn't what you want to hear, but it is something I've gone through myself and felt like sharing in case it helps.

Take a moment and realize almost every platform you post to has some sort of validation system that allows people to say whether or not your photo is perceived to be good. You can't post something online today without there being some sort of Like or Love button on it and this adds a lot of stress to posting things and sharing things because you're no longer making the image taking process about what you like but
...Show more

Exactly. I post a lot on Flickr, never on IG and a few times a year on FB. When I post on Flickr, sometimes I don't even give the pictures a name other than whatever # the camera recorded in them. I never tag them and almost never post in any group either. I post them Flickr because I want to be able to see them without going to my picture folders to find them in a computer. It's sort of like a place where I put my own favorite pictures together so I can see them easily from any devices, anywhere, well almost anywhere, a few countries block even flickr, such as China....



May 14, 2022 at 01:10 PM
cinema
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Douglas L wrote:
Exactly. I post a lot on Flickr, never on IG and a few times a year on FB. When I post on Flickr, sometimes I don't even give the pictures a name other than whatever # the camera recorded in them. I never tag them and almost never post in any group either. I post them Flickr because I want to be able to see them without going to my picture folders to find them in a computer. It's sort of like a place where I put my own favorite pictures together so I can see them easily from
...Show more

exactly. it's a really light web interface and looks clean. allows you to upload very big files and view them neatly.




May 14, 2022 at 01:11 PM
DaveFP
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


Douglas L wrote:
Exactly. I post a lot on Flickr, never on IG and a few times a year on FB. When I post on Flickr, sometimes I don't even give the pictures a name other than whatever # the camera recorded in them. I never tag them and almost never post in any group either. I post them Flickr because I want to be able to see them without going to my picture folders to find them in a computer. It's sort of like a place where I put my own favorite pictures together so I can see them easily from
...Show more

If you adopt Photo Mechanic you can upload images with title/tags/etc. very very easily.




May 14, 2022 at 01:18 PM
DaveFP
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


RoamingScott wrote:
Likes are a stupid form of validation. Plenty of people game social media to get likes from bots. Likes are by no means a reliable metric of quality. Engagement on social media are often "tit-for-tat" meaning you need to be following that person and actively commenting and liking their work. Often times a like is more of a semi-forced social interaction rather than an expression of actually liking and admiring a picture.

When people are worried about likes, they usually have a missing piece elsewhere in their life that they are trying to fill. You don't want psychotherapy, but your concern
...Show more

IF ( I repeat IF) you wish for your gallery (Flickr or otherwise) to resonate you cannot mix rank snapshots in with your best images.

They simply bring the whole experience down and devalue you in the eyes of better photographers.

Put only your better images up. Leave the snapshots on your hard drive.

(By "you" I mean "one")




May 14, 2022 at 01:28 PM
LBJ2
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · A whine about Flickr for My fellow Fred Sony group.


JeyB wrote:
For my part, there is no question that likes means nothing at all. Who is who press the like button? Another person? A bot? Someone with exquisite taste? Someone with no eye for photography? Things shouldn't work this way. You and only you are your best judge and liker.

I will tell you a personal story. From time to time I publish some photograph on my IG account. An absolutely unattended account by the way (about 200 followers), and totally independent from my professional career as photographer. I post motorbikes photos, bird photos, abstract photos... all what I really like, but
...Show more

Please count me as 60.001 admirer of this beautiful image. Exquisitely lit, super interesting subject 🤩👍🏻



May 14, 2022 at 01:45 PM
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