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Official 800PF image and discussion thread

  
 
woodstork
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p.73 #1 · p.73 #1 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


I looked into some extension tube calculators. Example here:
https://monochrome.sutic.nu/2018/05/24/extension-tube-calculator.html

They all pretty much estimate you might get about a meter closer (or less) with 35mm extension and about half that with the 15mm. Or another way to view it is the lens natively provides 0.17x magnification and you get to 0.18-0.19x with 15mm and to about 0.21x with 35mm. The incremental benefits are because the focal length is so much larger than the extension length.

molson wrote:
I measured it in the living room this morning, and the 15mm tube only gains you about 2 feet of working distance - not as much as I had thought. I may have to try the longer Fotodiox tube, which is 35mm.

I have not noticed any effects on AF performance, but I wouldn't really expect any since it's just a hollow tube.




Dec 17, 2023 at 04:47 PM
molson
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p.73 #2 · p.73 #2 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


woodstork wrote:
I looked into some extension tube calculators. Example here:
https://monochrome.sutic.nu/2018/05/24/extension-tube-calculator.html

They all pretty much estimate you might get about a meter closer (or less) with 35mm extension and about half that with the 15mm. Or another way to view it is the lens natively provides 0.17x magnification and you get to 0.18-0.19x with 15mm and to about 0.21x with 35mm. The incremental benefits are because the focal length is so much larger than the extension length.



It makes me a little envious of the Canon RF 800mm f5.6, which has a MFD less than half that of the Nikon 800mm PF (although it also costs 3x as much...). I'm beginning to realize that the 800 PF may not a practical choice for what I tend to shoot.




Dec 18, 2023 at 03:16 PM
woodstork
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p.73 #3 · p.73 #3 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


That is impressive MFD (0.34x mag)! But that sucker weighs 9 pounds, almost twice as heavy as the PF. And I’ve gotten a bit addicted to shooting 800mm handheld. When I need to get close the Z 100-400 is very nice (2.5’ MFD and 0.38x mag). It is a good compliment to the 800 PF in that regard and I sometimes carry both. And combined they weigh less than anyone’s 800/5.6.

molson wrote:
It makes me a little envious of the Canon RF 800mm f5.6, which has a MFD less than half that of the Nikon 800mm PF (although it also costs 3x as much...). I'm beginning to realize that the 800 PF may not a practical choice for what I tend to shoot.





Dec 18, 2023 at 11:50 PM
Lance B
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p.73 #4 · p.73 #4 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


molson wrote:
It makes me a little envious of the Canon RF 800mm f5.6, which has a MFD less than half that of the Nikon 800mm PF (although it also costs 3x as much...). I'm beginning to realize that the 800 PF may not a practical choice for what I tend to shoot.



But the 800 PF is not really any different to any other Nikon exotic telephoto prime and I don't know why people think that it's MFD is bad. If you look at all the Nikon long prime exotics, their MFD is similar to that of the 800 PF when adjusted for focal length and magnification:

Z 800 f5.6 PF:
MFD = 5mts
mag = .16x

Compared to all these lenses:

Z 600 f4 + TC:
MFD = 4.3mts
Mag = .14x

800/600 = 1.33x. Multiply that by 4.3mts MFD and you have 5.73mts, *longer* than the MFD of the 800 pf.

Z 400 f2.8 + TC
MFD = 2.5mts
Mag = .17x

800/400 = 2x. Multiply that by 2.5mts and you have 5mts, the same as MFD of the 800 PF.

Z 600 f6.3 PF:
MFD = 4mts
Mag = .15x

800/600 = 1.33x. Multiply that by 4mts MFD and you have 5.33mts, *longer* than the MFD of the 800 pf.

F mount 500 f4E FL VR
MFD = 3.6mts
Mag = .15x

800/500 = 1.6x. Multiply that by 4mts MFD and you have 5.76mts, *longer* than the MFD of the 800 pf.

F mount 500 f5.6 PF
MFD = 3mts
Mag = .18x

800/500 = 1.6x. Multiply that by 4mts MFD and you have 4.8mts, *shorter* than the MFD of the 800 pf.

F mount 800 f5.6
MFD = 5.9mts
Mag = .16x (AF)

Self explanatory.



Dec 19, 2023 at 12:55 AM
Alistair1
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p.73 #5 · p.73 #5 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


You would need to be shooting a very small subject for the MFD to be a problem on this lens. Even with small shorebirds I find the subject gets cropped before it becomes OOF.


Dec 19, 2023 at 02:49 AM
Alistair1
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p.73 #6 · p.73 #6 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


This lens is capable of such a special look, it is quite a challenging thing to use but the rewards are there. It really is a gamechanger to shoot 800mm handheld whilst crawling about in sand and mud!
I have been working recently on a conservation project with a species of our shorebird which has become critically endangered. This lens is a gem for telling to story of that project. Mainly video but plenty of stills as well.






































Dec 19, 2023 at 02:57 AM
molson
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p.73 #7 · p.73 #7 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


Lance B wrote:
But the 800 PF is not really any different to any other Nikon exotic telephoto prime and I don't know why people think that it's MFD is bad. If you look at all the Nikon long prime exotics, their MFD is similar to that of the 800 PF when adjusted for focal length and magnification:

Self explanatory.


Just because it's the same as all the other Nikon lenses doesn't make it good.

Other lenses have shorter MFD's, which makes them better in that respect... self explanatory.



Dec 19, 2023 at 09:24 AM
molson
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p.73 #8 · p.73 #8 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


Alistair1 wrote:
You would need to be shooting a very small subject for the MFD to be a problem on this lens. Even with small shorebirds I find the subject gets cropped before it becomes OOF.


I'm mostly shooting hummingbirds. I have to shoot in DX crop mode to get a reasonably sized image at this lens's MFD.

This is shot at 16 feet from the camera - MFD, plus or minus a couple of inches - in full-frame mode.




  NIKON Z 9    NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S lens    800mm    f/6.3    1/320s    6400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Dec 19, 2023 at 09:32 AM
Phil Seu
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p.73 #9 · p.73 #9 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


CanadaMark wrote:
w/ 1.4 TC:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rMMW4xC/0/4a23155e/X3/i-rMMW4xC-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Kzs7vfZ/0/9bb1e95f/X3/i-Kzs7vfZ-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w225qNL/0/286d013a/X2/i-w225qNL-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GB4QLtF/0/3881079d/X2/i-GB4QLtF-X2.jpg




The image quality on the perched BE is amazing. I want to be sure I am not missing something. It was shot with the z800 pf plus 1.4 TC? Did you stop down a bit? Thanks

Phil



Dec 19, 2023 at 09:47 AM
Alistair1
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p.73 #10 · p.73 #10 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread




molson wrote:
I'm mostly shooting hummingbirds. I have to shoot in DX crop mode to get a reasonably sized image at this lens's MFD.

This is shot at 16 feet from the camera - MFD, plus or minus a couple of inches - in full-frame mode.

Gotcha. That subject must only be around 30mm beak to tail? In that case the Canon you mention is probably a better tool for the job. But before investing check that it is AF all the way. I recall some of those lenses did not AF all the way to MFD. The last metre or so was MF only. Apart from that the Canon EF lenses are reported to work quite well on Z mount using Fringer adapter.



Dec 19, 2023 at 12:02 PM
 


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George DeCamp
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p.73 #11 · p.73 #11 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


molson wrote:
I'm mostly shooting hummingbirds. I have to shoot in DX crop mode to get a reasonably sized image at this lens's MFD.

This is shot at 16 feet from the camera - MFD, plus or minus a couple of inches - in full-frame mode.


If you're looking for a lens for hummingbirds try the new 180-600Z. I have the 400/2.8TC, 800pf and the 180-600Z and I've been using the 180-600 on them before they left for the year. Lens works great, plenty fast enough for hummingbirds and at 600mm the MFD is 7.9ft (at 180mm it's 4.27ft) and it won't break the bank! I shoot a lot of Hummingbirds as well so I get the MFD issue! I know you didn't ask for alternatives but figured I would bring it up!




Dec 19, 2023 at 02:58 PM
Lance B
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p.73 #12 · p.73 #12 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


molson wrote:
Just because it's the same as all the other Nikon lenses doesn't make it good.

Other lenses have shorter MFD's, which makes them better in that respect... self explanatory.


Why such anger? I was merely pointing out that the 800 pf is no worse than the other Nikon tele exotics and you jump on me like it was some sort of a personal affront. A number of people have commented on the supposedly long MFD of the 800 PF yet it is better than most of the Nikon exotic teles.

As for the use of "self explanatory", that was in reference to the 800 f5.6 *compared* to the 800 PF in that they are the same focal length yet the 800 f5.6 has a MFD of 5.9mts and Mag of .16x the 800PF is 5mts and a mag also of .16x = self explanatory, but it seems I have to explain it - same focal length yet the 800 PF has the same Mag but a closer MFD.

Sheesh, some people are thin skinned.



Dec 20, 2023 at 01:50 AM
bs kite
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p.73 #13 · p.73 #13 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


Alistair1 wrote:
This lens is capable of such a special look, it is quite a challenging thing to use but the rewards are there. It really is a gamechanger to shoot 800mm handheld whilst crawling about in sand and mud!
I have been working recently on a conservation project with a species of our shorebird which has become critically endangered. This lens is a gem for telling to story of that project. Mainly video but plenty of stills as well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53407793545_acd892fde1_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53407538628_6876a87fd3_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53407793680_96af7d61b4_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53407357731_6bae3f5621_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53407683894_1906cb479b_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53407683734_fd0c0c1482_o.jpg


This is outstanding! CORRECTION: My mistake and apologies. I should have posted this to Alistair1.

I am very excited in anticipation of what your documentation will show.

I envy the situation you have. It's all there for you, right now - nesting season (which will go by quickly), that very long, world-class lens and larger sensor to allow you to stay away from them..... and video!

Please, no need to take the time to respond to this Alistair1. We will look forward to your wildlife documentation of this critically endangered species.

Robert


Edited on Dec 20, 2023 at 10:46 AM · View previous versions



Dec 20, 2023 at 09:18 AM
molson
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p.73 #14 · p.73 #14 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


Lance B wrote:
Why such anger? I was merely pointing out that the 800 pf is no worse than the other Nikon tele exotics and you jump on me like it was some sort of a personal affront. A number of people have commented on the supposedly long MFD of the 800 PF yet it is better than most of the Nikon exotic teles.

As for the use of "self explanatory", that was in reference to the 800 f5.6 *compared* to the 800 PF in that they are the same focal length yet the 800 f5.6 has a MFD of 5.9mts and Mag
...Show more


That's the trouble with internet forums, I guess - too many people take disagreement or misunderstanding as a personal attack - smiley-face emoticons notwithstanding... but if I offended you, I'm sorry.

I'm not angry - quite the opposite. I thought it was kind of funny that you had gone to the trouble of listing off all of those other Nikon telephotos while totally missing the point that there are other lenses, like the Canon RF 800mm I mentioned earlier, that offer a substantial improvement in MFD, and therefore subject magnification - which I thought really was pretty self-explanatory.

Unfortunately, I don't have the huge amount of cash I would need to splash out for that unicorn Canon lens (nor any interest in switching systems) but in hindsight, a Nikon 400 f2.8 TC or 600mm f4 TC might have been a better option for what I'm shooting, since engaging the internal TC gives them 0.23x and 0.2x magnification respectively, while still maintaining excellent image quality. Budget-wise, I may have to look at the 180-600 as an alternative; I'm not totally sold on that lens, but I did do a lot of hummingbird photography with my Sony 200-600 G with pretty good results.



Dec 20, 2023 at 10:34 AM
Alistair1
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p.73 #15 · p.73 #15 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread




molson wrote:
That's the trouble with internet forums, I guess - too many people take disagreement or misunderstanding as a personal attack - smiley-face emoticons notwithstanding... but if I offended you, I'm sorry.

I'm not angry - quite the opposite. I thought it was kind of funny that you had gone to the trouble of listing off all of those other Nikon telephotos while totally missing the point that there are other lenses, like the Canon RF 800mm I mentioned earlier, that offer a substantial improvement in MFD, and therefore subject magnification - which I thought really was pretty self-explanatory.

Unfortunately, I don't
...Show more

At the risk of banging on about this, you don't need to abandon the Canon option for financial reasons. The RF teles are literally EF Mk3 lenses with an EF to RF adapter permanently stuck on (recall the furore when they were released?). The EF Mk3 and MK2 lenses work well with Fringer adapter. The MK2 lenses can be found for considerably less money than the 800pf and the MK3 for about the same money.



Dec 20, 2023 at 01:58 PM
Lance B
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p.73 #16 · p.73 #16 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


molson wrote:
That's the trouble with internet forums, I guess - too many people take disagreement or misunderstanding as a personal attack - smiley-face emoticons notwithstanding... but if I offended you, I'm sorry.

I'm not angry - quite the opposite. I thought it was kind of funny that you had gone to the trouble of listing off all of those other Nikon telephotos while totally missing the point that there are other lenses, like the Canon RF 800mm I mentioned earlier, that offer a substantial improvement in MFD, and therefore subject magnification - which I thought really was pretty self-explanatory.

Unfortunately, I don't
...Show more

All good. I guess I may have over-reacted a little as well and I also apologize for taking it the wrong way.



Dec 20, 2023 at 05:59 PM
woodstork
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p.73 #17 · p.73 #17 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


Have you tried the 1.4x TC on the 800 PF? That increases magnification to 0.22x (f/9 though) and you lose just a bit of sharpness and contrast. Probably a wash versus a DX crop in many conditions but might be superior in sufficient light.

molson wrote:
That's the trouble with internet forums, I guess - too many people take disagreement or misunderstanding as a personal attack - smiley-face emoticons notwithstanding... but if I offended you, I'm sorry.

I'm not angry - quite the opposite. I thought it was kind of funny that you had gone to the trouble of listing off all of those other Nikon telephotos while totally missing the point that there are other lenses, like the Canon RF 800mm I mentioned earlier, that offer a substantial improvement in MFD, and therefore subject magnification - which I thought really was pretty self-explanatory.

Unfortunately, I don't
...Show more



Dec 20, 2023 at 07:14 PM
molson
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p.73 #18 · p.73 #18 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


woodstork wrote:
Have you tried the 1.4x TC on the 800 PF? That increases magnification to 0.22x (f/9 though) and you lose just a bit of sharpness and contrast. Probably a wash versus a DX crop in many conditions but might be superior in sufficient light.



The light is already so bad I have to manually pre-focus just about every shot, so adding the TC would just make it worse. If the sun would put in an appearance, that would be a different story...



Dec 21, 2023 at 11:36 AM
CanadaMark
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p.73 #19 · p.73 #19 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


Phil Seu wrote:
The image quality on the perched BE is amazing. I want to be sure I am not missing something. It was shot with the z800 pf plus 1.4 TC? Did you stop down a bit? Thanks

Phil


Hi Phil - that is correct, Z800 PF with Z1.4 TC and wide open (F9). 1/320, ISO 500 and from a monopod. That particular image was also cropped down to ~11MP (from 45MP) but as you can see it holds up well. Exact same setup was used for the in-flight shot.

I personally can't see much of a difference stopped down vs wide open with my copy of the 800PF with or without the TC. It loses a hair of sharpness with the 1.4TC but it's so good that it isn't going to have a meaningful impact on the final image.



Dec 21, 2023 at 01:16 PM
Phil Seu
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p.73 #20 · p.73 #20 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread


CanadaMark wrote:
Hi Phil - that is correct, Z800 PF with Z1.4 TC and wide open (F9). 1/320, ISO 500 and from a monopod. That particular image was also cropped down to ~11MP (from 45MP) but as you can see it holds up well. Exact same setup was used for the in-flight shot.

I personally can't see much of a difference stopped down vs wide open with my copy of the 800PF with or without the TC. It loses a hair of sharpness with the 1.4TC but it's so good that it isn't going to have a meaningful impact on the final image.


Thank you so much. I have the lens and the TC but never imagined putting them together. Will definitely give it a try.



Dec 21, 2023 at 01:19 PM
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