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Archive 2022 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

rabbitmountain
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

Hey all,

I'm not sure this is the obvious place for this question but I have long since visited this Canon forum and I value opinions. I am about to upgrade my smartphone soon (Apple ecosystem) and for the first time the upcoming iPhone 14 Pro is rumoured to feature 48mp.

I am a photographer, I own a 5D4 and 5DsR and great fast glass so I am fully aware of the importance of having not only a good sensor but also great glass in front of it. Therefore, at first I laughed away these rumours as I thought "what good is having 48mp with such a tiny lens like in a smartphone".

Subsequently, I felt confident to stick with my choice to get the iPhone 13 Pro max. However, then I started reading about other brands' 48mp phones and how they in fact appear to improve image quality substantially.

Now I am also aware that you people are serious about your tools, but it's safe to say pretty much all of you own a smartphone and use its camera at occasions where it's the only camera you have available. So: I welcome opinions about the high mp count sensors in smartphones. Any opinion welcome!

Mar 29, 2022 at 03:24 PM

deepbluejh
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

Since most people share their images digitally online, 48MP vs 12MP doesn't matter if you are only posting at native scaling. However, higher MP smartphone sensors allow you to more effectively "zoom" and give you a decent image versus a lower MP sensor. While many phone have some sort of optical zoom, being able to "digitally zoom" with a higher MP sensor, will generally allow for better telephoto images.

For most people, this is going to be the biggest takeaway benefit.

Mar 29, 2022 at 03:57 PM

ashton lamont
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

My feeling is that even if a smartphone can do 100mp it is still inferior in low light and also cannot do bounce flash. Those two factors are frequently important for my type of photography so even though a high MP size in a smartphone may be handy in some circumstances its really not important at all in a smartphone.
I use a couple of 5D-IV's a 5DS-R and a 6D-II plus the appropriate lenses and guns. My now modest Galaxy S9 is fine for fun convenience and emergencies but thats it.

Mar 29, 2022 at 05:15 PM

Jesse Evans
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

At this point in the year, if you can hack it, I’d just wait till the 14 announcement.

Mar 29, 2022 at 05:21 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

Hi, Ralph. I'd go for a higher res camera, if I wanted to take full advantage of advances in computational photography. That said, I'll stick with my Galaxy S10+. I'm amazed at what it can do with its 12 MP camera (and three main-camera lenses). Besides, my 5DS would never let me hear the end of it.

Mar 29, 2022 at 07:12 PM

nibunnoichi
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

Samsung and other makers have already put 108MP sensors into some of their phones for a few years now - I have one: the Note 20 Ultra. It comes with a lot of caveats.

- By default, it bins it to a 12MP image
- I can technically set it to take 108MP files, with some serious limitations - one of them being such pictures cannot take advantage of the fancy auto-HDR and other AI-driven features.
- The 108MP photos, under the best conditions that could actually benefit from higher rez, look perhaps 10% more detailed than the default 12MP binned image. (There's only so much a lens of that size can resolve).

In all likelihood, the 48mp of the next iPhone will probably have its own set of caveats, even if it turns out being true.

Mar 30, 2022 at 12:56 AM

melcat
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

The size of the sensor matters, because of noise performance and dynamic range. To some extent, a smartphone can make up for its smaller sensor by image stacking, but that (mostly) has the same limitations it would have if you did it manually with your DSLR. I say "mostly" because I guess Apple has the CPU/GPU/Neural Processor power to detect and correct some of the subject motion artefacts; how much of that modern iPhones do I don't know. It seems unlikely they could perfectly fix every waving blade of grass in real time so the user didn't notice it was multiple exposures.

The other problem I have found with the iPhone is the frankly weird colours, especially blue sky which often tends to cyan. I only have an iPhone 7, so maybe things have improved on later models. That, and not the resolution, is why I stopped taking "art" photos on my phone.

Mar 30, 2022 at 02:06 AM

LCPete
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

I mainly do wildlife and macro so there’s no way that I can use a phone to take the same sort of image that for example with the 300 2.8 lens can do
I was surprised though how good the images are that my wife takes with the iPhone 13 , it’s just a different tool for a different job

Mar 30, 2022 at 02:41 AM

amacal1
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

nibunnoichi wrote:
The 108MP photos, under the best conditions that could actually benefit from higher rez, look perhaps 10% more detailed than the default 12MP binned image. (There's only so much a lens of that size can resolve).

While I have no doubt this is true, my guess is that using some computational tricks, they're able to eek out a slightly better 12mp pic from the 108mp sensor than other smartphones can get from a 12mp native sensor. Not to mention a range of other computational tricks they can probably use for new kinds of features.

I'd definitely to with the high-mp sensor for a smartphone.

Mar 30, 2022 at 08:42 AM

bman212121
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

I would definitely say it's worth waiting for a 48MP sensor upgrade if that becomes available. Apple is very slow to make changes, so if and when they do it's more of a "finally" and it will be quite mature once they do.

Honestly it's crazy they are still on "only" 12MP cameras. With the ability to bin a 48MP down to 12MP, you don't have to worry about low light performance because when the two images are viewed at the same size they end up with similar output. But the rest of the time if there is ample light available, there is a ton of detail that could be captured that simply isn't.

IMO if you shoot anything on an iPhone today it better be framed perfectly because you can forget about trying to crop it later. I've never seen an image where I thought that it could hold it's own if you had to zoom in at all. Maybe a 48MP sensor might finally change that should one come to fruition.

I have seen photos from the Samsung 108MP and it is a bit disappointing to be honest. When looking at the same photo side by side with the same area shot on the telephoto lens on an S22, the telephoto wins hands down. I'm sure that if there were a ton of light on the scene it certainly could help, but it was already an outdoor shot albeit it was overcast. So in regular scenarios the telephoto makes a bigger difference because it's not on some super wide lens like the main camera is.

So just like on DSLR and mirrorless, a lens choice can have just as much of an impact and sometimes you're better off using the right lens than trying to crop later. Maybe in your case you'll be better served continuing to use the telephoto and if you don't need 100 degrees of FOV for framing then the 48MP might not be all that necessary. If you like the wide angle view then I'd say there should be value in hoping they increase the resolution, especially if you can provide enough light to take advantage of the resolution.

Mar 30, 2022 at 10:11 PM

Maximus3D
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

Nevermind..

/ Magnus

Edited on Mar 31, 2022 at 09:25 AM · View previous versions

Mar 31, 2022 at 02:26 AM

melcat
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

Maximus3D wrote:
All it does is to reduce sensor noise ... increase the dynamic range and improve low light performance.

Nope. It does none of those things – they depend on sensor size. (Increasing the number of pixels in a constant area slightly *worsens* performance in those things, due to the area lost to the gaps between pixels, but not by very much any more.)

Presumably Apple have chosen 12Mpx because it's a good size for online sharing or viewing on a phone, which is what most phone images are intended for. If it were 48Mpx they would suddenly have to amend their ads to divide by 4 the number of photos that fits on a phone, for a feature almost no-one would use. Instead of cropping, they offer multiple photo lenses at extra cost.

Mar 31, 2022 at 07:12 AM

rabbitmountain
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

deepbluejh wrote:
Since most people share their images digitally online, 48MP vs 12MP doesn't matter if you are only posting at native scaling. However, higher MP smartphone sensors allow you to more effectively "zoom" and give you a decent image
Yes this is true for good glass dslr's, but I am wondering how much is left of the IQ bump considering the glass (or plastic) smartphone lenses.
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ashton lamont wrote:
My feeling is that even if a smartphone can do 100mp it is still inferior in low light and also cannot do bounce flash.

My gut feeling is I would only see better IQ coming from a 48mp iphone camera in excellent light. But I'm not sure.

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Jesse Evans wrote:
At this point in the year, if you can hack it, I’d just wait till the 14 announcement.
Well I promised to pass on my iphone 11 to my daughter for her birthday in may. So hacking it in this case would mean to use her worn down 6s she is turning in

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jcolwell wrote:
Hi, Ralph. I'd go for a higher res camera, if I wanted to take full advantage of advances in computational photography.
Well this is my thought as well. I am somewhat in doubt as the phone I am getting now will be a phone I want to keep for years to come. And if the iPhone 14 actually comes with a 48mp camera it would be more than an incremental improvement.
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nibunnoichi wrote:
Samsung and other makers have already put 108MP sensors into some of their phones for a few years now - I have one: the Note 20 Ultra. It comes with a lot of caveats.

great info there, thanks for sharing!

I suppose I'll need to think this through some more.
First world problem, nothing remotely important as what the Ukraine people have to endure at the moment.

Thanks all!

Ralph

Apr 01, 2022 at 04:42 PM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

For what it's worth, the iPhone 13 Pro's camera is the first phone camera I'm actually comfortable using as a camera and posting photos from. It's quite good. Cramming a bunch more megapixels into a tiny phone sensor is certainly not going to improve the one thing cameraphones lack...dynamic range.

Apple did a really good job using computational photography tricks with HDR on the 13 Pro to fake having good dynamic range, though.

Apr 01, 2022 at 04:53 PM

rabbitmountain
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

melcat wrote:
The size of the sensor matters, because of noise performance and dynamic range. To some extent, a smartphone can make up for its smaller sensor by image stacking, but that (mostly) has the same limitations it would have if you did it manually with your DSLR. I say "mostly" because I guess Apple has the CPU/GPU/Neural Processor power to detect and correct some of the subject motion artefacts;[...] I only have an iPhone 7, so maybe things have improved on later models.
iphone photography has come quite a long way since the iphone 7. But when the iphone needs to compromise exposure in high contrast scenes, the blue sky colour still suffer somewhat, even with HDR, at least on my iphone 11.
And yes, apple has ample CPU power to do their line of tricks nowadays.
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bman212121 wrote:
IMO if you shoot anything on an iPhone today it better be framed perfectly because you can forget about trying to crop it later.
[...] So in regular scenarios the telephoto makes a bigger difference because it's not on some super wide lens like the main camera is.[...] especially if you can provide enough light to take advantage of the resolution.
Well cropping iphone photos is part of my regular PP workflow. Basically an iPhone - even if equipped with 3 lenses - offers fixed focal length lenses and I always crop at least a little.
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melcat wrote:
Presumably Apple have chosen 12Mpx because it's a good size for online sharing or viewing on a phone, which is what most phone images are intended for. If it were 48Mpx they would suddenly have to amend their ads to divide by 4 the number of photos that fits on a phone, for a feature almost no-one would use.
You are probably right few people would actually use 48mp and PP that to perfection. It's probably more a marketing incentive because 12mp may appear lame to the average public versus the camera features of other phone makers.

Apr 01, 2022 at 05:00 PM

PhotoCyclist
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 48mp vs 12mp smartphone sensor?

I switched back to Apple last year with the 13 Pro Max and still have my previous Samsung S20 Ultra.

The 108MP is a gimmicky thing in term's of zoom, cropping etc but for 'normal' photo's where the image is 'binned' as mentioned by others, it is better than my Apple. Which surprised me since it is Samsung's older phone... .

Apple is not the class leader for mobile photography.

Apr 02, 2022 at 02:32 AM


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