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Archive 2022 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

rscheffler
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

rscheffler wrote:
Great examples. IMO with UWA shift lenses, it might be worth doing a second shot with just a touch of keystoning instead of perfectly parallel/straight verticals. For example the first two church photos, the top half of the church feels abnormally large and 'heavy', at least to my eyes. The fourth image with keystoning feels easier to view in comparison. Perhaps because if I was at that location, I would expect to have to look up to see the full height of the building. So, maybe somewhere between the two?

As a TS-E 17 owner, I can fully appreciate the...Show more →
ketang wrote:
Thank you, that is a good suggestion. I am finding it easier with buildings with a straight/flat top as it is easier to tell when I have the lens level. It also may be that since I've never been able to shoot this way before that the top-heavy look is so novel that I haven't noticed it being off.

It's technically correct when all vertical lines are parallel. But our brain is not used to seeing tall objects (buildings) at a close distance in this way. It results in the impression that the top is slightly wider than the bottom when it actually isn't.
If you look at the church photos, the tops of the spires are quite large when in reality they aren't. This is the result of UWA distortion stretching things towards the edges. If instead of the spires of a church, those were a bunch of globes on poles of various heights, those closer to the edges/corners would be stretched into massive oblong/egg shapes, yet in reality they'd be perfectly round/spherical. So, things towards the edges, particularly in shifted UWA images appear larger than in reality. I think it's worth keeping in mind that a 20mm shift lens is really a 13, 14, 15mm (roughly) UWA and you're taking a crop of a portion of its image circle. When fully shifted, you get a crop of an edge/corner area where the most UWA stretch distortion occurs.

You can do some really severe exaggerated perspectives with UWA shift lenses. A boring box of a building, if shot from a corner and close distance, with full shift, can result in a soaring pyramid of a building, all with 'correct' shift adjustments. Or you can break the rules and shift the lens up but point the camera down, or shift down and point up, etc.

As with any tool, you can use this to your advantage, or find ways to mitigate it.

Jun 09, 2022 at 09:29 AM

Jman13
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Shot some photos this morning for work, which is a project our company designed. The 20mm shift worked quite well. I shot more interiors, but most of those are not exciting for general viewing, and are more for internal project promotion.

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/marina_atrium.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/marina_east.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/marina_flag.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/marina_west.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/marina_grill.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/marina_boats.jpg

Jun 09, 2022 at 10:14 AM

Peter Figen
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Scott Stoness wrote:
I looked at ts17 (1.1% unshifted) and ts24 distortion (1.4%unshifted) on optical limits and compared it to Christopher frost video unshifted. Both canon have quite modest distortion. As compared to Laowa that looks like more like 3% or more. In addition the distortion increases a bit shifted in Christopher Frost video.

around 7:40 This is causing some wierd stuff in straight lines.

See also 6:52 of https

that shows ts17 shifted much less distortion than laowa.

Not saying its not useable but I think I would try to use the ts lens over the Laowa 20 for architecture base...Show more →

Virtually all of the places that test lenses for things like distortions use a very small test target to quantify their results. With longer lenses this is fine but with these wide angle lenses it gives a completely false impression of the real world distortion. These lenses are typically shot closer to infinity in architectural images while the tests were done at only a few feet away, which is a distance where the floating element groups, and I believe there are two sets in the Canon 17mm, come into play to optimize the optical performance close up and in the corners but at the expense of small amounts of distortion.

In the real world of shooting buildings both the 17 and 24v2 lenses show virtually no visible barrel distortion even shooting the very high high rises of downtown Los Angeles. I mean, you can have one of those buildings even near the edge of the frame, drag a guide next to it in Ps and there's just no deviation. So take those test numbers with a grain of salt, if that.

Jun 09, 2022 at 10:39 AM

GHarris
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

ketang wrote:
I bought this lens as well after trying both it and the 15mm. The 15mm was fun and I prefer the aperture blade design, but I found I that it made less sense for building exteriors outside of skyscrapers or where I ran out of space to back up. I also prefer the 20mm for the ability to use screw on filters, like a CPL. I got the EF version which I like because it's the smallest and I can adapt it to both my Canon RF and Sony FE systems.

My copy of the 20mm does seem to show some...Show more →

Thank you for this post and examples (and thanks to all who have contributed to the thread). I'm impressed with the colour punch of all these example photos. The only Laowa lens I own, the E-mount 15mm f/2, has very muted colours when compared directly to shots with a Zeiss Loxia so colour was one small thing giving me potential doubts about this lens that these fine examples have eased. Perhaps my old Laowa prime just has less fancy coatings and Laowa's latest has more punch, or perhaps it's just the same colour character as my old lens and this is a reminder of how colour can be made stunning in post regardless of the basic character of the lens.

The other minor uncertainty I had about the lens was which mount version to buy. It seemed to me that the best choice for the long term, given that it's rather a specialty lens, would be to buy the most adaptable, compact mount version, and then adapt it. I only shoot Sony E-mount but I think, like Ketang also said, I would buy the Canon EF-mount version. Are there any downsides to doing so, as long as the mount adapter is very precisely-made? I was thinking of using my Sigma MC-11 with it for example, which is very precisely machined. My main wonder - and I'm not sure whether this is really a possible consideration or not - is whether, somehow, because of their huge and moveable image circle, shift lenses need their adapters to have as much unobstructed light path as possible. The MC-11 has a rather squared-off opening (example - https://www.fotokoch.de/bilddaten/bildgroesser/sigma-mount-converter-mc-11-canon-ef-e-sony-nex_71930.jpg )... does this matter a jot, will it introduce additional vignetting when using shift somehow, do I need to consider an adapter with a rounder opening in some way, or have I (hopefully) misunderstood and over-thought how shift lenses function with adapters?

Thank you to Keith Cooper for his videos and reviews on this lens, too - very very helpful.

Jun 09, 2022 at 01:49 PM

ketang
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

GHarris wrote:
Thank you for this post and examples (and thanks to all who have contributed to the thread). I'm impressed with the colour punch of all these example photos. The only Laowa lens I own, the E-mount 15mm f/2, has very muted colours when compared directly to shots with a Zeiss Loxia so colour was one small thing giving me potential doubts about this lens that these fine examples have eased. Perhaps my old Laowa prime just has less fancy coatings and Laowa's latest has more punch, or perhaps it's just the same colour character as my old lens and this...Show more →

I also had the Laowa 15mm f/2 previously and for whatever reason never took to it and eventually sold it. I would say that the 15mm f/2 had better consistency than the 20mm when fully shifted, though that is to be expected and the sharpest sections of the 20mm seem equal to the sharpest parts of the 15mm f/2 from what I recall.

As for adapting and vignetting, for what it's worth I still have a bit of corner vignetting at full shift which is visible with a blue sky, but it's easy to fix with Content Aware Fill and I'm not sure the adapter is the cause. As for being precisely made and the effect, I have used this on my Canon with the Canon EF-RF adapter and on my Sony with the Metabones Mark 4 and the sharpness pattern (mid-zone dip, best overall sharpness at f/16) is similar. If you are more demanding then I might not recommend either the Laowa 15mm or 20mm when comparing them to my best native zooms and primes. However, I noted that Keith uses these and even higher-end shift lenses professionally and seems to find them completely capable, at least according to what I got from his videos. Getting the right look to buildings while spending half of what a native Canon mount lens would cost is better for me than cropping from a sharper native ultrawide angle or spending on a Canon tilt-shift at this point for me.

Jun 09, 2022 at 02:23 PM

ketang
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Here is a new image from the 20mm, though I adapted onto my Sony body for this one. Had to tilt up slightly to get the top of the building in frame:

https://photos.smugmug.com/UnitedStates/Boston/i-m9gB97g/0/e6da191e/X4/_A7F4323-X4.jpg

Jun 17, 2022 at 07:41 AM

Jman13
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

The more I shoot with this lens, the more I love it. It's got very nice sharpness throughout the frame, low distortion and operates beautifully. Only downside is that it can be prone to flare and ghosting, but even though it has some fairly extensive ghosting, they are faint enough and pretty enough that I generally haven't minded it.

A few recent shots from a trip to Indianapolis:

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/fire_station_91.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/in_statehouse_angled.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/fire_hq1.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/war_memorial.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/in_statehouse_front.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/fs91_flare.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/war_memorial_top.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/fire_hq2.jpg

Jul 23, 2022 at 08:43 AM

q-w-z
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

In my experience TS-E 17 had more distrotion than TS-E 24-II (around 7-8 and 2 points of correction in C1 Pro fully raised up). Samyang T-S 24 had 23 and 26 (more for closer focused interior shots)
Laowa 15 Shift has around 10-11.
Don't know for 20 Laowa. Maybe I'll buy it next year.

Actually, it depends on focus distants too and small printed targets is not illustrative at all (for regular UWA lens too).

Jul 23, 2022 at 08:59 AM

q-w-z
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Great examples, though

Jul 23, 2022 at 09:00 AM

ketang
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

I also find this lens to be a lot of fun. Here is a recent example where I mounted the EF version on my Sony A7 IV:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vqT7c2t/0/deea68ac/X4/i-vqT7c2t-X4.jpg

Jul 24, 2022 at 11:10 AM

ketang
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Well, this is unexpected. I lifted the lens out of my Pelican case today and the hood came apart into 3 pieces (see image below). It's not immediately apparent how I can get them reconnected and to stay in place, but I will email Laowa to see. It goes without saying that I've only used this lens on a tripod in good conditions and I actually rarely use the hood because I'm almost always shooting at full shift. This is my third or fourth Laowa lens as well and I've never had a hood issue.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QV7rQjz/0/8dd49689/X3/i-QV7rQjz-X3.jpg

Jul 24, 2022 at 07:11 PM

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