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Archive 2022 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

keith_cooper
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Venus Optics have announced the Laowa 20mm f4 Zero-D Shift lens.

Quite a range of mount options: Canon EF/R, Nikon F/Z, Sony E, Fuji G, L and Pentax K mounts,

It's a fully manual lens has ±11mm of shift (±8mm on Fuji G).

I've had one here for a while for testing and have written up some notes I hope are of some interest.

https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/laowa-20mm-f4-zero-d-shift/

I've still got the RF mount version here, if anyone has any specific questions?

A video (26 mins) about it too...

https://youtu.be/GsMJomc3EQw

All in all a very nice lens to use...

Mar 28, 2022 at 08:04 AM

Jman13
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

This looks great. I t sted th 15mm shift and r ally liked it, but have held off picking it up. I may get this instead, as 20mm is a little more useful for a lot of architecture work, and a shirt pano can get you to around 13-14mm width. Optically, it looks to be a little better than the 15mm too.

Mar 28, 2022 at 11:15 AM

johnctharp
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Depending on cost, I'd probably be interested in an EF-mount version so that I can get away with cheaper filters!

(one note for follow-up - you have '22cm' for the MFD in your text, but the table has '25cm')

Mar 28, 2022 at 11:23 AM

keith_cooper
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

johnctharp wrote:
Depending on cost, I'd probably be interested in an EF-mount version so that I can get away with cheaper filters!

(one note for follow-up - you have '22cm' for the MFD in your text, but the table has '25cm')

Thanks for that
- just me proof reading, so typo spotting is always welcome!

The EF version would also let me use an ef->rf adapter with filters if I wanted ;-)

Mar 28, 2022 at 12:37 PM

fotodik
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Does anybody know if there's a dealer that has this yet or at least expecting ?

Mar 29, 2022 at 07:33 PM

Jman13
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

fotodik wrote:
Does anybody know if there's a dealer that has this yet or at least expecting ?

I'm sure the big retailers will get it eventually, but now the only place to get it is Laowa themselves.

Mar 29, 2022 at 07:45 PM

ketang
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

keith_cooper wrote:
Venus Optics have announced the Laowa 20mm f4 Zero-D Shift lens.

Quite a range of mount options: Canon EF/R, Nikon F/Z, Sony E, Fuji G, L and Pentax K mounts,

It's a fully manual lens has ±11mm of shift (±8mm on Fuji G).

I've had one here for a while for testing and have written up some notes I hope are of some interest.

https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/laowa-20mm-f4-zero-d-shift/

I've still got the RF mount version here, if anyone has any specific questions?

A video (26 mins) about it too...

https://youtu.be/GsMJomc3EQw

All in all a very nice lens to use...

Just watched your review and also your longer webinar on tilt and shift lenses, thank you so much for those. I am interested in this as a way into learning and using this kind of a lens. I like the EF mount option as I can mount it on my R5 or Sony A7 series cameras. I believe that you mentioned in the review that you didn't have a chance to use the lens support bracket yet, but that it was on its way. Have you had the chance to use it since and overall how useful would you say it is? I understand technically why it is useful for stitching and avoiding parallax, but since I haven't shot these kinds of images before I don't know how common that is. For reference, I have several other lenses that cover 20mm so I am specifically interested in it for shift usage.

Mar 30, 2022 at 04:20 PM

keith_cooper
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

ketang wrote:
Just watched your review and also your longer webinar on tilt and shift lenses, thank you so much for those. I am interested in this as a way into learning and using this kind of a lens. I like the EF mount option as I can mount it on my R5 or Sony A7 series cameras. I believe that you mentioned in the review that you didn't have a chance to use the lens support bracket yet, but that it was on its way. Have you had the chance to use it since and overall how useful would you say...Show more →

Glad it was of interest.

I'm afraid I'm still waiting for the mount - I don't have an ETA :-(

I regularly do up/down stitches without any special mount. It depends on subjects, but I rarely have parallax issues.

For a left/right shift you can shift the camera on the tripod, but i find this approach is just too much pfaffing around (YMMV ;-) )

Mar 30, 2022 at 04:54 PM

Jman13
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

I finally got my hands on a copy of this lens, with mine arriving this morning. I have only had a brief time with it, but so far I love it. Sharper than the 15mm shift that I tested, and really the perfect focal length, in my opinion. Wide enough to get really nice perspectives, but not so wide that you are limited in composition. Plus, a quick shift stitch panorama gets you a lot of extra width anyway if you need it. I am finding it requires very precise focus when shooting near infinity. I recall the 15mm being very similar. Indoors, setting it halfway between the 2m mark and infinity and shooting at f/8 to f/11 yields good sharpness to the corners, even shifted. I'm so glad I finally own a shift lens again...it's been far too long without one, and this puts the old Mark I version of the Canon 24 TS-E to shame, which was my previous shift lens.

Some shots from today:

2-shot pano:
https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/bricker_building.jpg

12 shot shift pano for maximum coverage here...probably 14-15mm equivalent width here:
https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/statehouse_entry_pano.jpg

Single shot, around 8mm shift:
https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/statehouse_hall.jpg

Single shot, 8-10mm shift:
https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/statehouse_foyer_shift1.jpg

3 shot pano:
https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/statehouse_foyer_shift2.jpg

Single shot, around a 6mm shift diagonally:
https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/statehouse_hallway_shift.jpg

Single Shot, around 7mm shift:
https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/statehouse_foyer_shift3.jpg

Jun 01, 2022 at 07:18 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Looks like a keeper.

Jun 01, 2022 at 07:21 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

It seems like it has significant distortion - the straight lines up and down are not straight and the lights are bent in different direction.
1 walls bowed out right on top
2 looks good
3rd bowed with not straight up /down lines
5th lower light has wicked curve
6th right down like has turned the light and down the hall
top right light bowed out

Is this because of rush (not level) or does the 20mm have significant barrel distortion? The single shift even seems to have wonky vertical moustache distortion.

I would have to go back and try it on my ts24 but I don't recall such distortion. It seems that if you buy this lens you would need distortion perspective applied first before stitch.

This does not look great as an architecture lens. ? Likely ok for landscape if you want a 20mm

Jun 04, 2022 at 10:21 AM

keith_cooper
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Well, the one I tested was good enough that I'd happily use it for paying architectural work. It also flat stitched just fine and the images needed no particular adjustment - other than where I'd been a bit too quick and a few shot hand held. My concern would be detail in the corner with a strong diagonal shift

At full shift there was minimal barrel distortion - less than my TS-E17 but more than my TS-E24 - relatively low on all three though...

Personally I also think you are being just a tad harsh on the example shots of this style of building - I simply don't see the egregious errors you suggest. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I'm inclined to say they are nowhere near as obvious as your post seems to suggest.

Jun 04, 2022 at 11:25 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

keith_cooper wrote:
Well, the one I tested was good enough that I'd happily use it for paying architectural work. It also flat stitched just fine and the images needed no particular adjustment - other than where I'd been a bit too quick and a few shot hand held. My concern would be detail in the corner with a strong diagonal shift

At full shift there was minimal barrel distortion - less than my TS-E17 but more than my TS-E24 - relatively low on all three though...

Personally I also think you are being just a tad harsh on the example shots of this style...Show more →

I looked at ts17 (1.1% unshifted) and ts24 distortion (1.4%unshifted) on optical limits and compared it to Christopher frost video unshifted. Both canon have quite modest distortion. As compared to Laowa that looks like more like 3% or more. In addition the distortion increases a bit shifted in Christopher Frost video.

around 7:40 This is causing some wierd stuff in straight lines.

See also 6:52 of https

that shows ts17 shifted much less distortion than laowa.

Not saying its not useable but I think I would try to use the ts lens over the Laowa 20 for architecture base on this.I am being fussy and maybe if I saw it printed big I might notice it. But it is noticeable in the posts. Hopefully there will be a distortion profile for the lens.

Jun 04, 2022 at 09:39 PM

Jman13
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

The lens has almost no distortion at all. Every single thing you point out is depicting the actual geometry of the building.

Heres another three shots where you can see how generally straight everything is. It's not 100% perfect. But it's damn close, IMO.

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/osu_library_glass.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/foyer_stairwell.jpg

https://www.jordansteele.com/2022/capitol_square_shift.jpg

Scott Stoness wrote:
It seems like it has significant distortion - the straight lines up and down are not straight and the lights are bent in different direction.
1 walls bowed out right on top
2 looks good
3rd bowed with not straight up /down lines
5th lower light has wicked curve
6th right down like has turned the light and down the hall
top right light bowed out

Is this because of rush (not level) or does the 20mm have significant barrel distortion? The single shift even seems to have wonky vertical moustache distortion.

I would have to go back and try it on my ts24 but I...Show more →

Jun 04, 2022 at 10:11 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

keith_cooper wrote:
Glad it was of interest.

I'm afraid I'm still waiting for the mount - I don't have an ETA :-(

I regularly do up/down stitches without any special mount. It depends on subjects, but I rarely have parallax issues.

For a left/right shift you can shift the camera on the tripod, but i find this approach is just too much pfaffing around (YMMV ;-) )

You just need to use the "L" part of your L bracket, and if you don't have one, you should. You simply flop your tripod head platform to vertical and mount the L part of the bracket in there and do the same slide you'd have done horizontally but now vertically. Works perfectly with no parallax. It does help if you have some sort of scale marked on your clamp and on your L bracket. Even if you just have a center mark on one and a center mark with another mark one centimeter on either side is good enough. You can estimate the last two millimeters by eye and be more than close enough. If you're off a millimeter no one will ever know. PhotoMerge or whatever can handle it. And using this method is both faster than using one of those silly lens brackets and doesn't limit any function of the lens. Now I'm just giving away my secrets for free again. What the hell is wrong with me.

Jun 05, 2022 at 02:47 AM

keith_cooper
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Scott Stoness wrote:
I looked at ts17 (1.1% unshifted) and ts24 distortion (1.4%unshifted) on optical limits and compared it to Christopher frost video unshifted. Both canon have quite modest distortion. As compared to Laowa that looks like more like 3% or more. In addition the distortion increases a bit shifted in Christopher Frost video.

around 7:40 This is causing some wierd stuff in straight lines.

See also 6:52 of https

that shows ts17 shifted much less distortion than laowa.

Not saying its not useable but I think I would try to use the ts lens over the Laowa 20 for architecture base...Show more →

Not with the example I tested :-)

Any measurements based on a single sample of a lens are always taken under advisement by me.

It's one reason I don't include them in my own lens testing - I'm certainly not including measurements of distortion to 0.1% precision.

My reviews are of a single lens example - so I really try to avoid spurious and/or unwarranted precision, ...except... where it can be placed in context and with all the necessary discussion over its relevance and meaning.

The 20mm is a good compromise for people who can't afford or don't need the FOV of the TS-E17

Jun 05, 2022 at 04:51 AM

keith_cooper
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Peter Figen wrote:
You just need to use the "L" part of your L bracket, and if you don't have one, you should. You simply flop your tripod head platform to vertical and mount the L part of the bracket in there and do the same slide you'd have done horizontally but now vertically. Works perfectly with no parallax. It does help if you have some sort of scale marked on your clamp and on your L bracket. Even if you just have a center mark on one and a center mark with another mark one centimeter on either side is good...Show more →

Well, having both 'L' brackets and having tried those 'silly lens brackets'
I'm minded to say that from my own POV I disagree :-) They also have the benefit of moving the axis of rotation to the lens nodal point for panning and stitching.

I find the L bracket approach clumsy and awkward - better than nothing (sometimes)

So - each to their own preference. I'll admit I often don't bother with parallax correction for up/down shifts anyway - but it depends on the scene and what's in it

BTW, for people wanting to see the Laowa 'Silly Lens Bracket"™ a second video

https://youtu.be/oaOUkgy2CYI

https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/review-laowa-shift-lens-support/

Oh, and I have second short (~5 mins) video with more examples of the 20mm in use:

https://youtu.be/Q3_BQ_Un5yg

Jun 05, 2022 at 05:07 AM

ketang
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

I bought this lens as well after trying both it and the 15mm. The 15mm was fun and I prefer the aperture blade design, but I found I that it made less sense for building exteriors outside of skyscrapers or where I ran out of space to back up. I also prefer the 20mm for the ability to use screw on filters, like a CPL. I got the EF version which I like because it's the smallest and I can adapt it to both my Canon RF and Sony FE systems.

My copy of the 20mm does seem to show some distortion, at least when fully shifted which is what I am doing most of the time. A -2/-3 in ACR seems to correct it enough for me assuming I am getting the shot level. What I can't fix on my copy is what seems to be a midzone dip in sharpness. When I fully shift I find that the central area is a bit soft even when stopped down (thus being the midzone overall). I also find that stopping down to f/16 gives me the best balance between corners and the rest of the image. However, despite being a nitpicker with my other lenses, for some reason I am really happy with this. It's a lot of fun for me and it's my first and only shift lens. I'm now interested in seeing if they will come out with something a bit longer like a 24/35/50. Here are some samples with the 20mm followed by the 15mm:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9cK3nNt/0/839de43b/X3/i-9cK3nNt-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NpfnNZG/0/5d88a5f4/X3/i-NpfnNZG-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sNhWSgv/0/ff77131d/X3/i-sNhWSgv-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VQPp8QW/0/f8a2f387/X3/i-VQPp8QW-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mCDdTm6/0/4f8443e4/X3/i-mCDdTm6-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qnGpjd6/0/d5894dbd/X3/i-qnGpjd6-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XfzWWLW/0/c5ca10fb/X3/i-XfzWWLW-X3.jpg

15mm:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4rqsxch/0/f235f17d/X3/i-4rqsxch-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WWC4jz5/0/71d0608e/X3/i-WWC4jz5-X3.jpg

Jun 06, 2022 at 07:42 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

Great examples. IMO with UWA shift lenses, it might be worth doing a second shot with just a touch of keystoning instead of perfectly parallel/straight verticals. For example the first two church photos, the top half of the church feels abnormally large and 'heavy', at least to my eyes. The fourth image with keystoning feels easier to view in comparison. Perhaps because if I was at that location, I would expect to have to look up to see the full height of the building. So, maybe somewhere between the two?

As a TS-E 17 owner, I can fully appreciate the challenge of perfectly lining up a composition with such a lens. Just a fraction of a turn can totally mess up careful alignment of the subject...

This is where a geared tripod head makes a lot of sense.

Jun 08, 2022 at 10:33 PM

ketang
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · New Laowa 20mm f/4 shift [RF and EF mount]

rscheffler wrote:
Great examples. IMO with UWA shift lenses, it might be worth doing a second shot with just a touch of keystoning instead of perfectly parallel/straight verticals. For example the first two church photos, the top half of the church feels abnormally large and 'heavy', at least to my eyes. The fourth image with keystoning feels easier to view in comparison. Perhaps because if I was at that location, I would expect to have to look up to see the full height of the building. So, maybe somewhere between the two?

As a TS-E 17 owner, I can fully appreciate the...Show more →

Thank you, that is a good suggestion. I am finding it easier with buildings with a straight/flat top as it is easier to tell when I have the lens level. It also may be that since I've never been able to shoot this way before that the top-heavy look is so novel that I haven't noticed it being off.

Jun 09, 2022 at 07:22 AM

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