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OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?

  
 
Paul_100A
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


I've been reading that Bird AI with C-AF+TR works better than with Bird AI and C-AF.

I really don't know if that's true or not.

(some of my preliminary settings)

re: Bird AI subject detection

For perched birds (regular A mode with auto ISO and Auto ISO min shutter speed settings).
--------------------------------------------------------------------edit-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I set small AF target and use Bird AI C-AF+TR, 25fps SH2
that part is wrong.
with C-AF+TR I can not pinpoint anything using the small or single AF target group.
I changed the AF mode to C-AF with single AF target for perched birds
I can put the small focus point on a small bird and then let the Bird AI C-AF+TR do the rest.
that works very poorly...the AF can/and does go anywhere it wants in the frame and not does not adhere the AF target mode (small/single). I suppose one could use Center Priority with C-AF+TR but I just switched it to C-AF.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have C3 Bird AI C-AF+TR, set to slow fps 20 fps and low shutter 1/125 (low ISO) for really static birds and/or in much lower light.

For BIF I have two settings (both based off A mode);
for large/slower birds C1- large AF-Target group with 25 fps SH2 and C-AF Bird AI
for faster birds C2- ALL AF Target group, 50 fps SH2 and again C-AF Bird AI.

I might consolidate these two settings...we'll see.

I haven't used AF limiter nor have I played with C-AF sensitivity.

The metering on the OM-1 is a lot different/better(smarter?) than the EM1mkII and the EM1X.
I set the two BIF C modes with a default +0.7 EV compensation because I am usually pointing the camera up at the sky for BIF and with the other two cameras this usually meant substantial underexposure. With the OM-1 I do not need the + 0.7 exposure compensation.

+1 for an OM-1X.
I used my A9 ungripped with the 200-600 and would have added a grip had I kept it.
I am using the OM-1 ungripped with the 4/300 (and TCs) but I do prefer the ergos of the EM1X to the OM-1.
hoping my 150-400 is here by friday so we'll see how it feels with the OM-1. I may opt for the HLD-10.


Edited on Mar 27, 2022 at 09:39 PM · View previous versions



Mar 21, 2022 at 07:14 PM
jeffryscott
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Paul, how does the OM-1 compare with the A9 for BIF and tracking?


Mar 21, 2022 at 08:10 PM
Paul_100A
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


jeffryscott wrote:
Paul, how does the OM-1 compare with the A9 for BIF and tracking?


with the EM1mkII and the EM1X both...looking at the thumbnails of the day's BIF catch on the computer revealed a large number of completely OoF images in many BIF sequences. so OoF that one could simply delete those without clicking to see them at 100%.
there were some that i could 'almost' tell were OoF viewing at the thumbnail scale and clicking on them revealed as such.
then, the remaining images had to be 'clicked on' to see at 100% in order to find the best focused images and hope that the best focused image was also aesthetically pleasing.
with the A9 there was very, very, few clearly OoF images when viewing the thumbnails and very few seemingly OoF images when viewing at thumbnail scales.
basically, when looking at the BIF thumbnails of the A9 most appeared to be, AF-wise, keepers. finding a keeper though, that suited my standards, wasn't a given. there were a lot of birds which had a part of that bird in good focus but not the head/eye.
in a nut shell...as far as keepers...when the EM1X nailed it...they were better and almost as many.

the OM-1 thumbnails of the day appear like the A9....no clearly OoF images in burst sequence and very few seemingly OoF when viewing at thumbnail scales. the difference being there are FAR more keepers which are suitable to my standards from the OM-1 than the A9 and EM1X put together.
no BS though...there are still misses...but I also know I am handheld, swinging the camera/lens around like an idiot, and likely haven't even set up the camera to it's best. I haven't even switched Off IS for BIF (fast shutter) and that was almost always a must for the EM1X. with the EM1X, I could see, as I was shooting, the number of OoF images in a burst were much higher than normal and that would usually prompt me to switch off the IS. being I am usually shooting perched to BIF to floating ducks and so so and so on I am often using the IS switch and the AF limiter (mapped to a button).

i spent countless hours studying how best to set up the EM1X.
i did so with the A9 too (less hours in total thought). with the A9 most BIFers used a wide area (zone) or widest area possible (which does not cover the entire frame) and use plain old C-AF without AI (animal) tracking. no Bird AI with A9.

the OM-1 is almost 'out of the box' and I use it more like the A9...wide area AF mode and C-AF for BIF but with Bird AI.
BIF with the EM1X and EM1mkII I used a 5X5 and 3X3, respectively, AF mode and C-AF. rarely use Bird AI with EM1X for BIF.

another things is when the OM-1 drops a 'slightly' OoF frame in a sequence...it often gets back on track the very next frame.
with the A9 and the EM1X it was often two or three (or more with the EM1X) frames to get back on track.

subject recognition is absurdly insane...for many reasons, and one being how far away the bird is while it can be picked up by the camera.

OM-1 perched birds AF keeper rate is ridiculous.
taking into account for subject blur...in a ten frame burst with EM1X there are often three-four well enough AF'd images with one or two clearly much more critically focused.
in a 10 frame burst with the OM-1, 7-8 are critically focused.



Mar 21, 2022 at 10:58 PM
Bob Kane
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Apart from the comparisons with the A9 I could have written that post. After a couple of weeks with the OM-1 I'm familiar enough with it to get results I could only have dreamed about with any of the three EM-1s I've owned (and still sitting on).

With all the rattling on in these forums about comparing the autofocus with the A1, A9, R3 or whatever, I can only think of the engineer and the philosopher with a naked woman across the room. The philosopher says "Damn Zeno's paradox--I'll never get there". The engineer says "I'll get close enough". Folks, I'm close enough.



Mar 22, 2022 at 07:01 AM
robert_in_ca
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Paul_100A wrote:
I've been reading that Bird AI with C-AF+TR works better than with Bird AI and C-AF.

I really don't know if that's true or not.

(some of my preliminary settings)

re: Bird AI subject detection

For perched birds (regular A mode with auto ISO and Auto ISO min shutter speed settings).
I set small AF target and use Bird AI C-AF+TR, 25fps SH2
I can put the small focus point on a small bird and then let the Bird AI C-AF+TR do the rest.

I have C3 Bird AI C-AF+TR, set to slow fps 20 fps and low shutter 1/125 (low ISO) for really static birds and/or
...Show more

Thanks for the post. After a day of shooting my OM-1 + 150-400mm I immediately ordered the HLD-10. I am in the same camp as you preferring the ergos of the E-M1X.




Mar 22, 2022 at 09:25 AM
molson
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Paul_100A wrote:
hoping my 150-400 is here by friday so we'll see how it feels with the OM-1. I may opt for the HLD-10.


You don't have it yet? Where the heck do you live? Mine only took 3 days to get out to the west coast.



Mar 22, 2022 at 10:07 AM
Paul_100A
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


molson wrote:
You don't have it yet? Where the heck do you live? Mine only took 3 days to get out to the west coast.


i kinda screwed myself...they and I both deal with RBC.
they called me on saturday morning 07:44 (my time) and said I had to pay there and then for the lens if i wanted it because they could not hold it and wouldn't take a deposit.
my credit card does not have a high limit and has other pre-authorized camera stuff on it so I could not use it for the full purchase.
we figured out something else...
i went to my bank on that saturday morning and sent a draft from my checking to their checking (with picture of receipt and photo ID)...my bank said it would take two days to clear.
after i sent it...they said it would take 5-7 days to clear.
they just shipped it yesterday.


Edited on Mar 22, 2022 at 12:39 PM · View previous versions



Mar 22, 2022 at 12:14 PM
hoodlum90
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Paul, for the perched birds did you try with and without TR before deciding to go with TR. I have been shoot without TR but will give TR a try for these smaller perched birds.


Mar 22, 2022 at 12:17 PM
Paul_100A
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


robert_in_ca wrote:
Thanks for the post. After a day of shooting my OM-1 + 150-400mm I immediately ordered the HLD-10. I am in the same camp as you preferring the ergos of the E-M1X.



OM-1X



Mar 22, 2022 at 12:20 PM
Paul_100A
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


hoodlum90 wrote:
Paul, for the perched birds did you try with and without TR before deciding to go with TR. I have been shoot without TR but will give TR a try for these smaller perched birds.


i may have but don't recall. i learned that with Bird AI; +TR is uncaged and C-AF is confined to the AF mode (size of the AF group).
with songbirds i tend to only have one at time in the viewfinder so i assume it will be quicker to first put the AF target on it and then let Bird AI take over.

of course i could be wrong and regular C-AF may do just as well.
i just haven't had time or inclination or subject matter to play enough yet.



Mar 22, 2022 at 12:24 PM
 


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MEDISN
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Paul_100A wrote:
OM-1X


Have to agree, I much prefer the ergonomics and handling of the EM1X with the longer lenses. The OM-1 is very good as the EM1's have been historically. But the EM1X is next level build/feel to it. EM1X is more like my former 1DX II, just solid everywhere.




Mar 22, 2022 at 01:25 PM
jeffryscott
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Thanks Paul for the detailed comparison with the A9. The OM-1 looks quite amazing!


Mar 26, 2022 at 05:08 AM
hoodlum90
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Here is a detailed review of the OM-1 bird detection in comparison to other cameras. I like how they tested the various long lenses from both Olympus and Panasonic with and without TC.

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/om-system/om-1-bird-photography/



May 01, 2022 at 02:57 AM
Bobby V
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


I agree with your findings Paul.

My experience thus far are that the Subject Detection w/ bird AI, while not flawless, is more of the primary go-to mode for me now more than it ever was on the E-M1X. As you say, it is also pretty plug and play out of the box.

While it is not my goal to impress an expensive purchase upon anyone, (e.g., I didn't think the E-M1X or E-M1 III were quantum leaps over the E-M1 II in any one area to the point where they rendered the II obsolete), it is starting to feel like the OM-1 is a choice tool for bird work if its within budget.

The things that probably impress me about the bird AF the most are 1) how small or obscured the bird can be in frame and still be picked up by the AF, 2) how well the AF works well across different species, 3) the AF's ability to hold onto the bird, especially when it is moving rapidly through the frame with contrasting backgrounds. These things are kind of the holy grail for bird AF in my eyes, and are helpful when I'm striving for more than just white or blue sky backgrounds and not just taking ventral shots of birds.

The OM-1's advantages over the 1X became particularly clear to me while I was capturing swallows the other day. I noticed a few diving to grab some gull feathers in the water, and my angle wasn't great, basically the birds close to the water and shooting down at an angle. The ability to get any shots like that is confidence inspiring and I have to give credit to the camera. This is not to say I don't miss focus or can throw all technique out the window, but I'm attempting a lot more types of photos than I would have second guessed trying on the 1X. For me Bird AI for BIF on the 1X was delegated to slow moving/soaring species

Really the only hardware things I can think of to improve at this point, which are probably not specific to bird work, would be a 1X type body and a deeper buffer. For software I only wish they'd add some shot indicators in software like all the other stacked sensor cameras have while in SH2 mode.



May 03, 2022 at 09:30 AM
Paul_100A
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Bobby V wrote:
I agree with your findings Paul.

My experience thus far are that the Subject Detection w/ bird AI, while not flawless, is more of the primary go-to mode for me now more than it ever was on the E-M1X. As you say, it is also pretty plug and play out of the box.

While it is not my goal to impress an expensive purchase upon anyone, (e.g., I didn't think the E-M1X or E-M1 III were quantum leaps over the E-M1 II in any one area to the point where they rendered the II obsolete), it is starting to feel
...Show more

Indeed.
The important thing for me is I'm getting what I need way more often than not.
Not super high keeper rates but I consider I am usually using the 1.25X most often and I am not always in good light or at a decent close-up distance...usually something in a burst turns out that I can use.
A nice change over the EM1X for shorebirds moving/darting around very quickly and ducks swimming at speed on the surface of the water...I never relied on Bird Ai with EM1X....just couldn't. More times than not the AF would lock on a ripple/wave instead of the duck.
although the walking/wading shorebirds do not appear to moving quickly...apparently, most of the time they are...either the front half of the body/heady is moving or the rear is catching up to the front. instead of using single AF/CAF and manually tracking the head/eye now I often just let Bird Ai do the work.
With the OM-1 I can comfortably and confidently rely on Bird Ai for these situations.
About the only thing I do not use Bird AI for is the small songbirds (perched and/or darting around in the bushes), for these I still use single AF and C-AF.

Bird Ai will find the littles amongst the bushes well enough but I find I am seeing branches and leaves are focused on as the camera slips off the bird. this is understandable and does not bother me...nothing/nobody is perfect. I just find, with Bird AI, I am "waiting" longer for the camera to get focus back (and off and on and off and on) on the bird for a chance to trip the shutter. With single AF and no Bird AI I find I am waiting far less just keeping the AF target on the bird and hitting the shutter when all clear.

Edited on May 03, 2022 at 10:00 AM · View previous versions



May 03, 2022 at 09:46 AM
Bobby V
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Paul_100A wrote:
With the OM-1 I can comfortably and confidently rely on Bird Ai for these situations.
About the only thing I do not use Bird AI for is the small songbirds (perched and/or darting around in the bushes), for these I still use single AF and C-AF.


It feels odd to say it, but I actually think one of my favorite upgrades/features over the preceding Olympus cameras, in some ways even more so than the bird AF itself, is the ability to toggle the subject AF ON/OFF via FN button for situations like this. For me, it just goes to show just how important the software implementation of the UI is. On my Z9, I still can't simply toggle animal subject detection off and on without menu diving. After probably a week of back and forth Nikon finally acknowledged the bug and forwarded it on to the Japan team to review, but it's one thing that irks me constantly on the Z9. I was actually kind of surprised that no one else has really remarked about this issue as it is such a critical one in my mind. I would never simply rely on AI subject detection in all cases regardless of how good it is.




May 03, 2022 at 09:54 AM
Paul_100A
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Bobby V wrote:
It feels odd to say it, but I actually think one of my favorite upgrades/features over the preceding Olympus cameras, in some ways even more so than the bird AF itself, is the ability to toggle the subject AF ON/OFF via FN button for situations like this. For me, it just goes to show just how important the software implementation of the UI is. On my Z9, I still can't simply toggle animal subject detection off and on without menu diving. After probably a week of back and forth Nikon finally acknowledged the bug and forwarded it on to
...Show more

indeed. one of the first things i did with EM1X and OM-1 was assign a button to toggle Bird-Ai.



May 03, 2022 at 10:02 AM
robert_in_ca
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Bobby V wrote:
It feels odd to say it, but I actually think one of my favorite upgrades/features over the preceding Olympus cameras, in some ways even more so than the bird AF itself, is the ability to toggle the subject AF ON/OFF via FN button for situations like this. For me, it just goes to show just how important the software implementation of the UI is. On my Z9, I still can't simply toggle animal subject detection off and on without menu diving. After probably a week of back and forth Nikon finally acknowledged the bug and forwarded it on to
...Show more

Totally agree. The ability to toggle subject detect on/off like we can on the OM-1 is incredibly useful and it was the main thing I had a hard time with the Z9. Having to use the "I" button and dig into the quick menu was a PIA while shooting. I am seriously surprised that firmware 2.0 didn't address that.



May 04, 2022 at 02:43 PM
Pwdrhound
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?




Totally agree. The ability to toggle subject detect on/off like we can on the OM-1 is incredibly useful and it was the main thing I had a hard time with the Z9. Having to use the "I" button and dig into the quick menu was a PIA while shooting. I am seriously surprised that firmware 2.0 didn't address that.


Interesting following your posts in different subforums here. Not deliberately but I look around to the different gear forums. I notice you posting with (I think) OM1, z9, R3, Others? I may be wrong of course. You have a wide varied collection and I think it looks like you took many of them to your trip to Africa? Just curious on how big your bags were?! Great that you can have the different gear to use and maybe compare between. So what are your thoughts between these different top level cameras and lenses in practical use for you?

Are you trying to decide between any system or just like trying and using the different ones for either fun or strengths/weaknesses? It is fun to combine the techy gear side with the creative photo side.

Mike



May 04, 2022 at 06:48 PM
Hozarvi
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · OM-1 Bird AI consensus...?


Paul_100A wrote:
Bird Ai will find the littles amongst the bushes well enough but I find I am seeing branches and leaves are focused on as the camera slips off the bird. this is understandable and does not bother me...nothing/nobody is perfect. I just find, with Bird AI, I am "waiting" longer for the camera to get focus back (and off and on and off and on) on the bird for a chance to trip the shutter. With single AF and no Bird AI I find I am waiting far less just keeping the AF target on the bird and hitting the
...Show more

This is my experience with birds in bushes too. I have position 1 on the lever set to CAF single point and position 2 set to All points CAF, however in position 1 the camera will still be in AI mode and revert to the box and cluster of points if it detects what it thinks is a bird (often a leaf), so I have the L-fn button set to toggle AI mode.



May 05, 2022 at 06:18 PM
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