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Archive 2022 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel

  
 
rebop
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


I said I have a hot pixel in every image which Canon is calling stuck.

The last number in each row is luminance. You have x,y and luminance for each . This is 6400 2 sec.

No a meber so cannot upload here. Have a place you wiould like me to upload for you Dan? And if so, tell me CR3 or TIFF. Either is correct to siaply the issues at 100%. And there are hot/stuck pixels of varying degrees. I am not asking for that to be confirmed. You just do not seem to believe it which is your perogative. JPG is processed and hides some so CR3 or TIFF is best to show. They are there. Some very mild, some not.

And I appreciate your thoughts, time and comments. Would love other opinions on how their camera performs and what is considered excessive.

Sorry for this long column of info to follow, but you mentioned luminance (last number per row):

[DeadPixelText]
Version=1.0
Description=fm test
FileType=TIFF
NumBadPixels=69
0=Hot,2483,257,67
1=Dead,2483,258,255
2=Hot,2484,258,196
3=Hot,2483,259,207
4=Dead,2484,259,254
5=Hot,2484,260,75
6=Hot,3421,308,120
7=Dead,295,390,251
8=Hot,3853,560,240
9=Hot,595,713,71
10=Hot,594,714,88
11=Dead,595,714,255
12=Hot,596,714,84
13=Hot,595,715,72
14=Hot,3716,807,138
15=Hot,4208,931,148
16=Hot,3287,1190,136
17=Hot,3230,1195,82
18=Hot,1233,1248,125
19=Hot,2150,1316,79
20=Hot,255,1482,144
21=Hot,5226,1708,102
22=Hot,5225,1709,85
23=Dead,5226,1709,255
24=Hot,5227,1709,92
25=Hot,5226,1710,101
26=Hot,626,1715,162
27=Hot,2734,2393,124
28=Hot,4499,2428,109
29=Hot,5957,2577,112
30=Hot,5958,2577,142
31=Hot,5959,2577,112
32=Hot,5960,2577,96
33=Hot,5957,2578,135
34=Hot,5958,2578,177
35=Hot,5959,2578,155
36=Hot,5960,2578,133
37=Hot,5961,2578,102
38=Hot,5957,2579,109
39=Hot,5958,2579,142
40=Hot,5959,2579,112
41=Hot,5960,2579,92
42=Hot,79,2736,89
43=Hot,77,2739,84
44=Hot,76,2740,93
45=Dead,77,2740,255
46=Hot,78,2740,95
47=Hot,77,2741,86
48=Hot,4082,3117,118
49=Hot,2743,3152,84
50=Hot,2742,3153,61
51=Hot,2743,3153,116
52=Hot,2744,3153,67
53=Hot,2743,3154,78
54=Hot,1496,3155,89
55=Hot,1495,3156,70
56=Hot,1496,3156,122
57=Hot,1497,3156,88
58=Hot,1496,3157,73
59=Dead,5442,3199,251
60=Hot,3460,3335,225
61=Hot,3460,3336,76
62=Hot,3460,3337,62
63=Hot,2378,3534,78
64=Hot,2173,3646,136
65=Hot,3436,3691,106
66=Dead,2976,3889,255
67=Hot,3823,3914,134
68=Hot,4858,3961,136

I could be wrong on this, but I think what this program is calling DEAD (255) is really stuck. In other words, white pixel instead of black pixel. Otherwise would be visible at all ISO's I "believe". Likely semantics on that.








Mar 19, 2023 at 01:27 PM
Kameratrollet
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


Feel free to share some affected raw files. Use a filehost.
Meanwhile, read the part about ISO 12800 and R6 https://kameratrollet.se/how-to-get-rid-of-hot-pixels-on-a-canon-camera/

rebop wrote:
I do not think cropping will show the issue properly.

There is virtually nothing at 12800!! In case you misread. NOTHING at 12800. But lots at 3200. An dI understand exposure, Dan. I use 12800 ALL the time for low light concert photography. With my 1D X never above 6400.

I disagree with your assessment. If what you pose is true, then 12800 would be much worse than 3200.




Mar 19, 2023 at 05:18 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


To try to help get us on the same page about this issue and perhaps see what some issues might look like, here are a few images. They are not from a Canon camera, but from an older Fujifilm 24MP APS-C camera. (I knew that I could more easily create the "issues" with this older and smaller camera.)

So, the examples:

1. A 1000 x 1000 pixel 100% magnification crop of an image made by putting the lens cap on the camera, setting ISO to 12800, and making a two second exposure...

https://gallery.gdanmitchell.com/gallery/var/albums/HumanWorld/Unclassified/Misc-Demo-Images/Noise/BlackFrame.png

Note that there are obvious hot pixels, including one very obvious red one, a few blue ones, and more green ones. Hot pixels are typically one color, since they reflect the color of the filter on that pixel.

Looks pretty bad, right?

- - -

2. A 1000 x 1000 pixel 100% magnification crop of an image produced by using the same 12800 ISO, but letting the camera's auto-exposure pick the exposure for this dimly-lit interior. The exposure time is 1/210 second. (This means that the black frame lens cap image was given about 420x the exposure time!)Note that it is very noisy, as expected with this particular camera at this ISO. No NR has been applied. This is approximately the same part of the frame shown in the black "lens-capped" image above.

https://gallery.gdanmitchell.com/gallery/var/albums/HumanWorld/Unclassified/Misc-Demo-Images/Noise/12800Picture.png

As expected, it is very noisy. You can spot a couple of hot pixels bit more than half way up in the frame and slightly left of center... but almost all of the others are now invisible because they are masked by the rest of the image and image-noise.

- - -

3. The next sample is the same image from above (though offset slightly for reasons I will explain) but with some serious but acceptable noise reduction applied to deal with the noise. (The offset is because I could not see the hot pixels in the original area, so I moved the crop down in the frame a bit to pick up one that I could still find.)

https://gallery.gdanmitchell.com/gallery/var/albums/HumanWorld/Unclassified/Misc-Demo-Images/Noise/12800PictureWithNR.png

Here, at 100% magnification, virtually all of the hot pixels disappear. I can find two with a cursory look. There is one obvious one near the bottom of the image — the one that I included by moving the frame a little bit.(I'd hit that with one of the spot removal tools in post if I thought it would be visible.) If you look carefully above the stack of prints you may be able to spot a couple of others, though they aren't likely to be visible in a print, etc.

- - -

4. For reference, here is a 1500 x 1000 pixel downsized version of the full image from which the samples were taken — no NR has been applied to it.

https://gallery.gdanmitchell.com/gallery/var/albums/HumanWorld/Unclassified/Misc-Demo-Images/Noise/FullImageSmaller.jpg

I can see that it is noisy, as expected. However, because of interpolation when the image is downsized, the hot pixels are not visible. Note that this is the same ISO as the black image where they were very obvious.

- - -

5. Finally, here is the same image after some really basic (but aggressive, due to the high ISO) noise reduction, sharpening with a mask, and a few other typical post-processing adjustments.

https://gallery.gdanmitchell.com/gallery/var/albums/HumanWorld/Unclassified/Misc-Demo-Images/Noise/FullImageSmallerWPP.jpg

To anyone who is getting ready to type something about the awful photographic quality of the image, let's just stipulate that this image as no photographic value at all. It is just a handheld snap of a wall in my studio. ;-)

The point here, again, is that the black exposure test shows things that tell us interesting things about how digital image systems fail when pushed well beyond their real-world use. But they are not predictive of what happens in real photograph use, where the "flaws" they can reveal are irrelevant.

Dan




Mar 19, 2023 at 05:50 PM
rebop
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


I appreciate all the effort put into the replies.

Its getting exhausting. A reminder this all started with a single stuck white pixel in every image in the same spot. Your noise image, Dan showed little if any stuck white pixels. Lots of hot pixels. If that red one is there at all ISO's with a 1 sec or more exposure, that would drive me nuts, too.

My testing shows more dead/stuck pixels on my shots. And I do not think a new $6000 camera with 300 shots should require any pixel cloning in post process. Noise reduction, sure, but not having to use the cloning tool.

And I believe with reasoinable confidence that jpgs out of the camera have some processing, even with long exposure or high ISO noise reduction OFF. I would never use either for my own reasons. How I shoot. How I post process.

I am happy with my end results. I am not happy with with these pixels. I have no idea what a Scott Kelby or Joe McNally might expect in stuck or noisy pixels from their cameras and would love to know. What is acceptable to them. Or National Geographic shooters?

I have read dozens of pages on this issue in the last few days. One thing interesting is that some post that the pixel mapping happens using Clean Now (as Canon told me) and some with Clean Manually for 20-60 seconds depending on who you read. Different sensor cleaning functions. There is no gospel on this. Some say shoot a 30 sec high ISO shot first and THEN do one of the previously mentioned cleanings. No gospel.

So I know how to do exposures. I know how to post process. I know how to remove noise. I am not shooting my first rodeo I appreciate it, but I do not need tutorials.

But what I do not know is how many WHITE pixels or how many HOT pixels should be expected and shrugged off and where the line is drawn to cross over to unacceptable. I do not know exactly what is the sanctioned sensor cleaning as recommended by Canon to self pixel map. And I do not know if I will be happier when the camera comes back from service or less happy with what I feel is a bit excessive for a new camera. And I also cannot fathom why 1 and 2 second shots at ISO 12800 are MUCH cleaner than those at ISO 3200. THAT baffles me.

Those are the questions I really posed trying to decide how to proceed and whether to send for service. Which I will. I sold three cameras (and 2 lenses) plus to buy this one. Will be hard to be without while it is gone. 1D X relegated to emergency backup only after using the R3.



Mar 19, 2023 at 09:00 PM
Kameratrollet
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


Probably because you didn't read our answers.
rebop wrote:
And I also cannot fathom why 1 and 2 second shots at ISO 12800 are MUCH cleaner than those at ISO 3200. THAT baffles me.

Those are the questions I really posed trying to decide how to proceed and whether to send for service.


Modern raw converters find and map out bad pixels if you shoot raw. In most cases no need for a cloning tool.
rebop wrote:
And I do not think a new $6000 camera with 300 shots should require any pixel cloning in post process. Noise reduction, sure, but not having to use the cloning tool.


Turn on Long exposure noise reduction. To remove bad pixels at 1 sec or longer is what it was created for.
rebop wrote:
If that red one is there at all ISO's with a 1 sec or more exposure, that would drive me nuts, too.




Mar 20, 2023 at 01:28 AM
rebop
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


No, I read the answers, Trollet. AND as I said, the original stuck pixel in EVERY CR3 and JPG so not mapped, cloned, fixed, repaired or in other way removed. Maybe you didn't read that. And that doesn't explain why 12800 cleaner than 3200, does it? Or am I missing something? Happy to learn which is why I sk the question.

Long exposure noise reduction doiubles the time of shooting an image. Not something I want to do. If I was a landscape or astro photographer maybe. Does not fit my workflow.




Mar 20, 2023 at 07:51 AM
Kameratrollet
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


"Raw converters like darktable and RawTherapee have a one click module that removes all defective pixels in one strike. Lightroom does it automatically but you can’t increase or decrease the strengh of it. Canon Digital Photo Professional doesn’t remove hot pixels."

And

"Some camera models from Canon have a built in hot pixel suppression feature. For example 6D, M5 and R6. At ISO 6400 (6D and M5) or ISO 12800 (R6), hot pixels are removed without any dark frames. The hot pixels left are remainings from hot pixel pairs Canon failed to remove completely. 7D has not that kind of feature."

There are two raw files from 6D you can download and play around with. With 6D, Canon removes bad pixels at ISO 6400. With R6, and apparently R3 that you have confirmed, at ISO 12800.

I took a picture with my R6 at ISO 6400 and 2 sec. Lens cap on. Got around 150 bad pixels.
rebop wrote:
No, I read the answers, Trollet. AND as I said, the original stuck pixel in EVERY CR3 and JPG so not mapped, cloned, fixed, repaired or in other way removed. Maybe you didn't read that. And that doesn't explain why 12800 cleaner than 3200, does it? Or am I missing something? Happy to learn which is why I sk the question.

Long exposure noise reduction doiubles the time of shooting an image. Not something I want to do. If I was a landscape or astro photographer maybe. Does not fit my workflow.





Mar 20, 2023 at 07:53 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon R3 Dead Pixel/Hot Pixel


rebop wrote:
No, I read the answers, Trollet. AND as I said, the original stuck pixel in EVERY CR3 and JPG so not mapped, cloned, fixed, repaired or in other way removed. Maybe you didn't read that. And that doesn't explain why 12800 cleaner than 3200, does it? Or am I missing something? Happy to learn which is why I sk the question.

Long exposure noise reduction doiubles the time of shooting an image. Not something I want to do. If I was a landscape or astro photographer maybe. Does not fit my workflow.



Out of curiosity, In your workflow, what is the longest exposure time that you frequently use at ISO 12800?

One way to get a good handle on the real world effect of high ISO pixel issues would be to manually set the camera to that shutter speed and ISO (aperture won't matter) and make a lens-cap-on exposure and inspect. Also try a few shots of real stuff at ISO 12800, take it thought your workflow (or if you are a SOOC jpg shooter, use default settings) and see what it looks like.

And, of course, if one thinks the camera is defective the best thing to do is contact Canon for warranty service.

Dan



Mar 21, 2023 at 01:52 PM
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