Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4      
5
       end
  

Archive 2022 · A7RV

  
 
lattesweden
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · A7RV


ggx145 wrote:
Absolutely not. Pricing got completely out of hand. Minor upgrades all fall into the "nice to have" category. In your shoes, I would replace my camera at some stage with a used A7RIV, or stick with another A7RII body, depending on how much of an upgrade the autofocus differences are. I think I'd prefer the A7RII sensor actually.


Yeah, that A7RII sensor is really lovely.

I haven't found if the V has a full mech shutter, or if it is EFCS only.
Also if it has High Eyepoint EVF for glasses.
And if the there is any improvement on the high ISO on the V.
As well how the image quality in the scaled down RAW-files are.
Also if it has 16-bit RAW pipeline.
And finally if Voigtländer/Loxia lenses works with the focus magnification or not.



Oct 26, 2022 at 12:13 PM
raminolta
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · A7RV


lattesweden wrote:
In my post from early February this year (quoted above) I predicted the following for the A7RV:

* Forth gen body with the new menus
* 80-100 Mpix BSI sensor, non stacked, so mech shutter at 10 fps
* Release in October 2022
* Price 500-1000 above the original A7RIV launch price which was 3500 USD

I missed on the sensor which also made that by reusing the old sensor the price landed a tiny bit on the underside of the price range I had predicted.

Body, shutter and fps was spot on and so was the release month. Not a too bad a guess
...Show more

$400 price hike above A7r iv at launch time, seems reasonable to me considering the inflation spike since the pandemic started. I am guessing you are mainly focused on resolution than anything else. In that case, A7r v makes little sense over A7r iv which can be found for relatively bargain prices nowadays. A used A7r iv may even be found nearly as half as a new A7r v. If I were primarily mp driven, I would certainly ignore A7r v and get a used A7r iv instead.

However speaking for myself, I have no interest in resolution hike passed 50mp. Hence I ignored A7R IV when it was introduced and to this day, it is still an irrelevant camera to me. However, A7r v checks many boxes for me compared to my A7r iii: features I have always wanted such as focus bracketing and much improved user interface particularity the touch control, a faster more responsive camera, etc.. The AF improvement in the A7r iv over iii didn't seem big enough to convince me of that model but the A7r v is even better! The T-C Youtube review shows it is considerably better than A7r iv. So as I see it now, A7r v will be my next camera.



Oct 28, 2022 at 10:07 PM
osv2
Offline
• • • •
[X]
p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · A7RV


ggx145 wrote:
Absolutely not. Pricing got completely out of hand.


after taking inflation into account, the a7r5 is at least $100 cheaper than the a7r4 was at it's launch.

that makes the a7r5 a better bargain than the a7r4 was; it's a superior camera for less money.




Oct 28, 2022 at 10:17 PM
rdcny
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · A7RV


Nope bad value; price will drop especially if/when the sony hypers stop telling the world what a good deal this is. Nope bad value


Oct 29, 2022 at 04:33 AM
ggx145
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · A7RV


osv2 wrote:
after taking inflation into account, the a7r5 is at least $100 cheaper than the a7r4 was at it's launch.

that makes the a7r5 a better bargain than the a7r4 was; it's a superior camera for less money.



I am not accepting this argument - net value and income of many potential customers and wages have gone down, so the A7RV costs way more realistically. Also, it got out of hand before the A7RIV and the trend just continues!




Oct 29, 2022 at 06:07 AM
tsdevine
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · A7RV


The market is shrinking, which camera manufacturer has a downward pricing trend on their high end equipment? Maybe with competition with pricing between the manufacturers, it might come down somewhat, although I don't see any of the manufacturers instigating that "price war" right now. And if they don't meet their sales volume quotas due to the reasons you note, then maybe it will drop as well.

ggx145 wrote:
I am not accepting this argument - net value and income of many potential customers and wages have gone down, so the A7RV costs way more realistically. Also, it got out of hand before the A7RIV and the trend just continues!






Oct 29, 2022 at 06:10 AM
ggx145
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · A7RV


tsdevine wrote:
The market is shrinking, which camera manufacturer has a downward pricing trend on their high end equipment? Maybe with competition with pricing between the manufacturers, it might come down somewhat, although I don't see any of the manufacturers instigating that "price war" right now.



Sure, that may all be true. Maybe it's reasonable from a business perspective to jack up pricing - that doesnt mean that it did not get out of hand. 2300 was the original MRSP for the A7R (and my local photoshop immediately had a discount on it!) compared to 3900 for the A7RV. Thats 60% more when the A7R was the first of its kind, so arguably a lot of platform development was done for that model compared to the incremental increases with each subsequent model.




Oct 29, 2022 at 06:19 AM
tsdevine
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · A7RV



But this isn't the a7R and there is quite a difference between it and the newer cameras. From sensor, to memory, to processing, IBIS, the actual build, etc.

I'm not saying I wouldn't love it to be cheaper. I'm just saying that no one is selling a new model like the a7R V for $2300 in 2022. Unfortunately Sony is a non-charity for profit company. It will price equipment based on what the market will bear.

A new a7R IIIA sells for $2000, which is a big jump from the a7R. That's what I currently shoot, and that's a lot of camera for the money. It's nice that Sony is still selling the older models, and maybe 5-6 years from now the a7R V might be in the $2000's range as well (as there will be 2 newer generations.

ggx145 wrote:
Sure, that may all be true. Maybe it's reasonable from a business perspective to jack up pricing - that doesnt mean that it did not get out of hand. 2300 was the original MRSP for the A7R (and my local photoshop immediately had a discount on it!) compared to 3900 for the A7RV. Thats 60% more when the A7R was the first of its kind, so arguably a lot of platform development was done for that model compared to the incremental increases with each subsequent model.






Oct 29, 2022 at 06:25 AM
ggx145
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · A7RV


Yeah, and when the A7R was new it was ALL new sensor, all new body, all new mount (with the A7 of course!)... Sony and all the others will always extract the most possible money of course, and thats what I mean by its getting out of hand - the amateur/prosumer market (which is the lions share of the A7 product sales) is ready to pay these prices which used to be absolutely unattainable. This shift of the financial goal post is likely our (as in the hobbyists!) fault and I decry that.

Personally, I still have an A7 and now an A7RIV (used purchase) and take solace that I, like 99% of all photographers, still have not pushed the 2013 A7 to its maximum potential, and that everything after that is just convenience and bells and whistles



Oct 29, 2022 at 06:41 AM
tsdevine
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · A7RV


Yeah, I'm not really trying to justify anything.

And I guess I'm part of the problem, as I pre-ordered the V. But you can see a lot of people here aren't planning to buy, so at some point maybe that will put some downward price pressure. At least Sony is selling a couple of the older models at discount, so in a way they are throwing us a bone. I'm not sure how many manufacturers would/are doing that. I suspect the a7R III days are numbered though, we might see it fall out of the lineup soon.

I think part of the a7/a7R was a little bit of a Hail Mary. Sony was testing the market for FF mirrorless, and they priced those cameras accordingly. Now that FF mirrorless is well established, and they are a leader...combined with the shrinking market..the stakes have changed.

ggx145 wrote:
Yeah, and when the A7R was new it was ALL new sensor, all new body, all new mount (with the A7 of course!)... Sony and all the others will always extract the most possible money of course, and thats what I mean by its getting out of hand - the amateur/prosumer market (which is the lions share of the A7 product sales) is ready to pay these prices which used to be absolutely unattainable. This shift of the financial goal post is likely our (as in the hobbyists!) fault and I decry that.

Personally, I still have an A7 and
...Show more




Oct 29, 2022 at 06:49 AM
chez
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · A7RV


ggx145 wrote:
Sure, that may all be true. Maybe it's reasonable from a business perspective to jack up pricing - that doesnt mean that it did not get out of hand. 2300 was the original MRSP for the A7R (and my local photoshop immediately had a discount on it!) compared to 3900 for the A7RV. Thats 60% more when the A7R was the first of its kind, so arguably a lot of platform development was done for that model compared to the incremental increases with each subsequent model.



Sony priced the A7R to grab market share so that Sony could establish itself in the market. It has done that now and does not need to low ball it’s gear. Go over to the Canon forum…they are complaining about price increases as well.




Oct 29, 2022 at 09:40 AM
molson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · A7RV


chez wrote:
Sony priced the A7R to grab market share so that Sony could establish itself in the market. It has done that now and does not need to low ball it’s gear. Go over to the Canon forum…they are complaining about price increases as well.



Camera prices are just going back to the way they were for decades - when high-end 35mm cameras cost a much higher percentage of one's disposable income.



Oct 29, 2022 at 11:40 AM
mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · A7RV


We should remember the MSRP of the Canon 1Ds series. They were the Canon and in fact the whole industry flagships for high Rez full frame digital camera. $6k .. each of them. Perhaps that's a comparison to be made to the A1 but Canon had the 1D series for high frame rate and fast AF (at the time) and the 1Ds were for more pixels.


Oct 29, 2022 at 12:43 PM
chez
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · A7RV


mcbroomf wrote:
We should remember the MSRP of the Canon 1Ds series. They were the Canon and in fact the whole industry flagships for high Rez full frame digital camera. $6k .. each of them. Perhaps that's a comparison to be made to the A1 but Canon had the 1D series for high frame rate and fast AF (at the time) and the 1Ds were for more pixels.


I believe the 1Ds was released at $7999 in 2002...that's close to $13,000 in today's dollars taking in inflation.



Oct 29, 2022 at 01:14 PM
osv2
Offline
• • • •
[X]
p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · A7RV


ggx145 wrote:
I am not accepting this argument - net value and income of many potential customers and wages have gone down, so the A7RV costs way more realistically. Also, it got out of hand before the A7RIV and the trend just continues!



understood, and i agree to some extent, but that's not how inflation works... the a7r5 is a better camera for less money than the a7r4 was.

afaik sony hasn't raised camera prices in the u.s. this year? in fact they are holding the u.s. price line with their playstation 5 as well, but other countries are seeing price increases for it: https://blog.playstation.com/2022/08/25/ps5-price-to-increase-in-select-markets-due-to-global-economic-environment-including-high-inflation-rates/

just be glad that you don't own canon:

"Canon USA has increased pricing on select RF and EF mount lenses. Some dealers may still be selling these items at the previous prices until they deplete their stock purchased in the past.
RF 24-105mm F4 L IS USM now $1299.00 — a $200 increase
RF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM now $1799.00 — a $200 increase
RF 100-500mm F4-7.1L IS USM now $2899.00 — a $100 increase
RF 600mm F11 IS STM now $799.00 — a $100 increase
RF 800mm F11 DO IS STM now $999.00 — a $100 increase
EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM now $1299.00 — a $200 increase
EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM now $1299.00 — a $200 increase
EF 35mm f/1.4L II now $1999.00 — a $200 increase
EF 70-200mm f/4L IS II USM now $1499.00 — a $200 increase
EF 85mm f/1.8 USM now $499.00 — a $80 increase
EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x now $11999.00 — a $1000 increase"



Oct 29, 2022 at 02:21 PM
ggx145
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · A7RV


osv2 wrote:
understood, and i agree to some extent, but that's not how inflation works... the a7r5 is a better camera for less money than the a7r4 was.

afaik sony hasn't raised camera prices in the u.s. this year? in fact they are holding the u.s. price line with their playstation 5 as well, but other countries are seeing price increases for it: https://blog.playstation.com/2022/08/25/ps5-price-to-increase-in-select-markets-due-to-global-economic-environment-including-high-inflation-rates/

just be glad that you don't own canon:

"Canon USA has increased pricing on select RF and EF mount lenses. Some dealers may still be selling these items at the previous prices until they deplete their stock purchased in the past.
RF
...Show more

Unfortunately, that is exactly how inflation works - you get a new product with increased prices and decreased purchasing power while an economist points out that it's really cheaper

Canon was the only system I was never drawn to and that is just another datapoint confirming that this gut feeling was right!



Oct 30, 2022 at 06:37 AM
tsdevine
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · A7RV



You can choose between mechanical and electronic shutter, and there is a setting to turn off EFCS...so I think that answers the first question.

https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2230/v1/en/contents/TP0002887782.html

lattesweden wrote:
Yeah, that A7RII sensor is really lovely.

I haven't found if the V has a full mech shutter, or if it is EFCS only.
Also if it has High Eyepoint EVF for glasses.
And if the there is any improvement on the high ISO on the V.
As well how the image quality in the scaled down RAW-files are.
Also if it has 16-bit RAW pipeline.
And finally if Voigtländer/Loxia lenses works with the focus magnification or not.





Oct 31, 2022 at 08:38 AM
chez
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · A7RV


ggx145 wrote:
Unfortunately, that is exactly how inflation works - you get a new product with increased prices and decreased purchasing power while an economist points out that it's really cheaper

Canon was the only system I was never drawn to and that is just another datapoint confirming that this gut feeling was right!



Well here’s Fuji price increases:

“FUJIFILM Imaging Systems Co., Ltd. will revise the shipping prices and suggested retail prices of some interchangeable lenses for mirrorless digital cameras from Tuesday, November 1, 2022.

As raw material costs, manufacturing and distribution costs continue to soar, we have endeavored to absorb costs by improving production efficiency and reducing expenses, but it is difficult to absorb these costs through corporate efforts alone. We will make a price revision.”

And here’s Nikon’s increase;

“Following a period of severe disruption in global supply chains, we have experienced continued cost increases to component parts and logistics charges. Whilst we have explored all options to absorb these costs, to maintain production on these lines moving forward, we are regrettably having to increase prices.’

Choose your poisons.



Oct 31, 2022 at 08:57 AM
degner
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · A7RV


I'm all in on the Sony A7R V. It's faster interface, and higher DPI viewfinder for manual focus will fix my two major problems from the A7R III. While it's great video performance and increased IBIS is exactly what I need for my video projects.

As a working photographer (photojournalism/commercial) this is 2 great cameras for the price of one. I don't have to buy the FX3 anymore. It is a dream.

My one fear is the Loxia lens bug.

I understand why many photographers aren't interested in this upgrade though. That A7R IV will be a nice price on the used market really soon.



Nov 02, 2022 at 09:56 PM
RoamingScott
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · A7RV


I’m really interested to see if the Riv/200-600 issue is present on the body. That would give some direction as to the cause since they share a sensor.


Nov 02, 2022 at 10:06 PM
1       2       3       4      
5
       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4      
5
       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.