lattesweden
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lattesweden wrote:
Sony favorite months to launch bodys in are April and October (yes I have done the statistic research to come to that conclusion).
SAR says they have sources saying that Sony won't, due to the chip shortage, launch any FF bodys in the first half of 2022, so then October is most likely. That would also let the A7RIVa have been on the market for 1 year and a quarter until it gets superseded.
As to specs, I guess forth generation body, mech shutter, no stacked sensor at about 80-100 Mpix.
Why not the 61 Mpix again? It looks like that was a custom job for Sonys camera division (it is not a generic offer on Sony sensor divisions homepage). And they (Sonys camera division) have licensed it to Sigma (fp L) and Leica (M11). I also guess we soon will seee a Leica Q3, SL3 and a Panasonic S1RII with it in them. And there are rumors about a Nikon Z7III with a 61 Mpix sensor which most likely is the same one once again.
So when those who don't have sensor development "in house" as Sony does (though at another division) re-uses Sonys 61 Mpix one, it is not likely Sony themselves will put it in a new body.
There are also rumors about a Canon R5S with 80-100 Mpix. They also make sensors in house and the race these days are between Canon and Sony. Will they do 100 Mpix on this generation or will they milk the market another round and do 80 before they do 100? After that, it will be hard to go higher on FF I guess.
So the summarize, Sony A7RV:
* Forth gen body with the new menus
* 80-100 Mpix BSI sensor, non stacked, so mech shutter at 10 fps
* Release in October 2022
* Price 500-1000 above the original A7RIV launch price which was 3500 USD
...Show more →
Here are some more info I have gathered over time on the sensor topic:
If we first quick take some sales numbers, Mirrorless (no DSLRs in these numbers) 2019 and 2020 crop and FF combined per brand:
2019
Sony: about 1.65 million
Canon: about 900 000
Nikon: about 250 000
Panasonic: about 250 000
2020
Sony: about 1.2 million
Canon: about 1.1 million
Nikon and Panasonic about the same as 2019
2021
Not in yet.
Leica and Sigma are so small they don't have their own lines in the freely available sales information.
The above numbers are picked from my memory and can be a little different in the real world but not by much so this paints the world view quite well. Though we don't know how the FF/crop division is unfortunately.
Canon makes their own sensors and have just learned to make BSI and stacked ones (R3). Canon has so far not sold their sensors to anyone else in the mirrorless world.
Leica/Panasonic have used Tower Semiconductor (former TowerJazz, once fully owned by Panasonic, then 50%, now 0% Panasonic ownership) for some of the sensors like the 47 Mpix one. How Tower operates the sensor side of their business I don't know.
My information says that the Sony A7III and A7C, the Nikon Z6, the Leica SL2S, the Sigma fp and the Panasonic S1 are all using the same base Sony IMX410 sensor, just slightly altered for each manufacturer. Most are with PDAF but in the L-mount world only CDAF.
Leica uses another 24 Mpix sensor in the SL and Q, my information says from TowerJazz.
The Leica Q2, SL2 and Panasonic S1R has a 47 Mpix sensor also from TowerJazz.
The Sigma fp L uses the same Sony 61 Mpix sensor as the A7RIV. So does the Leica M11 and I think we soon will see a Q3 and SL3 with it in as well as a Panasonic S1RII.
Also Nikon (Z7III) is rumored to come with a 61 Mpix sensor, not unlikely the Sony one.
At Sony sensor division one can either buy any of the off the shelf sensors they offer (see their website for models). Those can be slightly altered like if one wants CDAF pixels or not, microlens configurations, AA-filter or not etc.
One can also sit down with Sonys sensor engineers and cook together one owns sensor from technologies and intellectual properties that Sony has rights too. Basically one can make a sensor from what is in Sonys toolbox. The reason one gets Sony engineers to help out is because what fits well together and not from the stuff that is in the Toolbox is something that they know. Nikons Z7 sensor is believed to be made through this custom order procedure.
Sony does not allow a customer to bring their own tech or patents etc that Sony don't have in their toolbox and Sony also don't manufacture other companies sensor designs.
If one does a custom sensor at Sonys sensor division they can either use it exclusively or let others (later) use it as well and then get some sort of cost reduction/kick back for those sales.
Sonys camera division is a customer at the sensor division, just like Nikon and the others.
One can only get what is available for production in the toolbox for the sensor size one wants. Sensor tech trickles downward and up in size so FF is almost on the end of the line.
Sonys camera division can not get tech before the others. It is however believed that Sonys camera division has a better info flow on what is nearing production possible on FF and preliminary specs and by that can get a head start to create the interfacing camera circuitry and by that often be first out on the market with the new tech.
I haven't seen any fullframe mirrorless camera in the recent years that has a sensor from someone else than the three above mentioned companies.
Samsung could probably do very good FF sensors (that they can do good APS-C sensors for mirrorless we know already from their now decommissioned system), but they don't seem to have an interest in that or if it is the other way around - the Japanese centered camera business don't want to buy from them.
From what I have pieced together from many data sources (so errors might occur):
Leica SL uses a TowerJazz 24 Mpix, same as in the Q.
Leica SL2 uses a TowerJazz 47 Mpix, same as in the Q2 and Panasonic S1R.
Leica SL2-S uses the Sony IMX410 (same as in A7III).
Leica M11, most likely the Sony 61 Mpix one or a variant of it.
Panasonic S1 uses the Sony IMX410 (same as in A7III).
Panasonic S1H uses the Sony IMX410 (same as in A7III).
Panasonic S1R uses a TowerJazz 47 Mpix, same as in the Leica Q2 and SL2.
Panasonic S5 uses for me an unknown sensor, might be the Sony one from A7/A7II etc
Sigma fp uses the Sony IMX410 (same as in A7III).
Sigma fp L uses Sonys 61 Mpix sensor, same as in A7RIV.
Nikon Z6/Z6II uses the Sony IMX410 (same as in A7III).
Nikon Z7/Z7II uses a special built sensor, most likely from Sony.
Nikon Z5 uses a Sony sensor, same as in A7, A7II and Nikon D610, 750 and others.
Nikon Z9 uses a special built sensor, maybe from Sony, but there are also so many differences from Sony normal tech in DR and not being able to do RAW at 30 fps etc so maybe it is someone else that made it. Tough not many can do stacked BSI.
Canon R uses a Canon sensor, same as in 5DIV.
Canon RP uses a Canon sensor, same as in 6DII.
Canon R6 uses a Canon sensor, same as in1DXIII.
Canon R5 uses a Canon sensor.
Canon R3 uses a Canon sensor, their first with BSI and also stacked.
Sony actually already has a 100 Mpix sensor since 2019:
https://www.eoshd.com/news/sony-develops-full-frame-100-megapixel-sensor-with-6k-video-for-consumer-cameras/
I really must stress that the above info is pieced together from several sources of unknown quality but they seemed believable and errors therefor might have sneaked in. I do wish the camera/sensor business was more transparent with how it works so we wouldn't need to puzzle together crumbles like this. If you have any more info, corrections to the above etc, please fill in.
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