Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       4       5       end
  

A7RV

  
 
Dultimate
Online
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · A7RV


80-100 Mpix is too much when you consider that the A1 is "only" 50. You up the Mpix too much and the processing speed that's required to manage that is going to hinder the camera elsewhere. Besides, who's asking for that much in a world where the top Nikon and Canon cameras are under 50 Mpix? 61, 50, 42 and 33 is more than enough when you consider that their state of the art A9's are only 24.

Question to those that are knowledgeable, what is the viewfinder experience of the A7IV vs the RIV in terms of resolution?




Feb 08, 2022 at 11:13 AM
tctmp
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · A7RV


Dultimate wrote:
80-100 Mpix is too much when you consider that the A1 is "only" 50. You up the Mpix too much and the processing speed that's required to manage that is going to hinder the camera elsewhere. Besides, who's asking for that much in a world where the top Nikon and Canon cameras are under 50 Mpix? 61, 50, 42 and 33 is more than enough when you consider that their state of the art A9's are only 24.

Question to those that are knowledgeable, what is the viewfinder experience of the A7IV vs the RIV in terms of resolution?



I'm not sure it will be 80mp, but the longer the wait is, the more likely it will be higher than 60mp. And if A1 can do 30fps of 50mp, 80mp is certainly not an issue for processing speed, assuming no higher than 10-15 fps. And 80mp also doesn't mean you have to shoot at that. I think downsampling where you save to lower resolution will be available.



Feb 08, 2022 at 11:32 AM
Gunzorro
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · A7RV


For me, the a7R4 nearly the perfect camera. I'm all about the IQ, so high MP plays into that (among other IQ characteristics).

I also own two a7R2's, but only use them to reduce wear and tear to the a7R4. I skipped the a7R3 and am glad I did -- nothing important there that I didn't get from the a7R2 or a7R4.

I might someday be interested in a 75MP a7R5, but not holding my breath.

My next body will probably be the 45 MP Canon R5 as its price comes down. This would better both my R and 5DsR in significant ways -- both cameras I am very impressed with, but just wanting a little "more" flexibility in MP/DR.

45MP and 75MP might be my ideal pairing of camera bodies.



Feb 08, 2022 at 12:15 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · A7RV


Dultimate wrote:
80-100 Mpix is too much when you consider that the A1 is "only" 50. You up the Mpix too much and the processing speed that's required to manage that is going to hinder the camera elsewhere. Besides, who's asking for that much in a world where the top Nikon and Canon cameras are under 50 Mpix? 61, 50, 42 and 33 is more than enough when you consider that their state of the art A9's are only 24.

Question to those that are knowledgeable, what is the viewfinder experience of the A7IV vs the RIV in terms of resolution?



I don't think a 75mpix camera will be all about speed. That is what the A1 and A9 series is for. I'd be more than happy with 8fps on a 75mpix camera.



Feb 08, 2022 at 01:59 PM
morris e
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · A7RV


Could I interrupt the MP speculation with an invitation to speculate on the A7rvís video capabilities? Iím wondering if people think the A7rv would be likely to gain any or all of the video capabilities of the A7iv. For example: New video-still-SSQQ dial, 4K60 with or without crop, active stabilization, 4:2:2 10-bit, all the new codecs, focus tools, focus-breathing compensation, etc.

Here are some reasons why I think it might match the A7iv in video specs:
* no reason to cripple
* A7riv matched a7III video specs (unless Iím missing something?)

Here are some reasons why I think it might not:
* Even with a crop, 4K60 on a 61MP+ A7rv is a different beast than the same on a 33MP camera, and will come with its own heat-dissipation challenges
* Possible misguided attempt to segment the A7r series as a ďnot-for-videoĒ camera

Any thoughts?



Feb 08, 2022 at 02:04 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · A7RV


morris e wrote:
Could I interrupt the MP speculation with an invitation to speculate on the A7rvís video capabilities? Iím wondering if people think the A7rv would be likely to gain any or all of the video capabilities of the A7iv. For example: New video-still-SSQQ dial, 4K60 with or without crop, active stabilization, 4:2:2 10-bit, all the new codecs, focus tools, focus-breathing compensation, etc.

Here are some reasons why I think it might match the A7iv in video specs:
* no reason to cripple
* A7riv matched a7III video specs (unless Iím missing something?)

Here are some reasons why I think it might not:
* Even with
...Show more

You'll see broadly comparable capability to the A7IV, but the details will likely favour the A7IV, much as what happened with the A7c and A7RIV (the A7III should be compared to the A7RIII here, because they're same gen, the A7RIV, A9II and A7c are half-gen steps past the A7III and A7RIII)

The one asterisk will be 8K. The A7RV technically could be 8K30 capable (I don't expect 8K60 due to heat and sensor offload speed limits)



Feb 08, 2022 at 03:07 PM
lattesweden
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · A7RV


mawz wrote:
You'll see broadly comparable capability to the A7IV, but the details will likely favour the A7IV, much as what happened with the A7c and A7RIV (the A7III should be compared to the A7RIII here, because they're same gen, the A7RIV, A9II and A7c are half-gen steps past the A7III and A7RIII)

The one asterisk will be 8K. The A7RV technically could be 8K30 capable (I don't expect 8K60 due to heat and sensor offload speed limits)


I'm a stills shooter but have noticed that Sony has been good in re-using sensors in other products. The A1 sensor is from what I have understood also in the Venice 2.

So from that perspective, can one think of ways an A7RV sensor also would do good in video cameras, what specs would that be that make sense for that? And also in a video camera there might be a fan and better cooling due to no IBIS so sensor mounted directly on a heat shield. And maybe different modes, like lower modes pulled out in the A7RV body due to heat and higher video specs in the video camera body. A little like Canon did with R5/R5C.



Feb 08, 2022 at 03:21 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · A7RV


lattesweden wrote:
I'm a stills shooter but have noticed that Sony has been good in re-using sensors in other products. The A1 sensor is from what I have understood also in the Venice 2.

So from that perspective, can one think of ways an A7RV sensor also would do good in video cameras, what specs would that be that make sense for that?


Video in general doesn't reward high-MP sensors. It's more demanding on noise performance and bitrate, less on resolution.

The high-MP bodies have exactly the opposite set of performance parameters. Frankly, the A7R's are not the body to choose if you are at all serious about video, they're too much money for not enough performance. They're perfectly fine for mild to moderate use or B-cam if you have your video body already setup for a different view.

Only the recent 8K fad has made higher-MP video cameras at all attractive and that tops out at 45-50MP practically (and fad 8K is for the most part right now when 4K is still struggling to replace HD as the dominant format in the overall consumption market, while new TV sales are mostly 4K, the average TV is still HD because people simply aren't replacing them fast enough. As of 2021, in the US 4K penetration is at 44% of households). 8K does have advantages for content creators because of crop ability and IQ advantages when downsampling, but the penetration of 8K TV's is non-existent.

8K will eventually be a serious thing, but right now its a fad for all but the most demanding creators because there's nothing really pushing consumers to buy it (the last real-world push for consumer TV upgrades was the end of analog TV broadcasts, 4K has largely increased penetration by hardware attrition, consumers buy new 4K when their old set dies and all the decent quality sets available are 4K but most consumers are simply not caring about 4k over HD)



Feb 08, 2022 at 03:32 PM
DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · A7RV


lattesweden wrote:
Sony favorite months to launch bodys in are April and October (yes I have done the statistic research to come to that conclusion).

SAR says they have sources saying that Sony won't, due to the chip shortage, launch any FF bodys in the first half of 2022, so then October is most likely. That would also let the A7RIVa have been on the market for 1 year and a quarter until it gets superseded.

As to specs, I guess forth generation body, mech shutter, no stacked sensor at about 80-100 Mpix.

Why not the 61 Mpix again? It looks like that was
...Show more

I suspect that the r5 will have a stacked sensor, if it is 100MP.
Why? Because unless it does I doubt it can equal the r4 in terms of readout speed and burst speed at that resolution.
While I agree it makes sense for Sony to ensure that the A1 stays faster in those respects than the r5, if the r5 is worse than r4 all hell will break loose. So yes, stacked sensor, but just enough to ensure that it maybe slightly exceeds r4 in terms of rolling shutter and burst rate, not enough to approach the speed demons.

I also doubt the rumours it will keep the 61mp sensor. Partly for your reasons (everyone has it or will!). But also anotherÖ.if they keep a 61 MP sensor, then the improvements they can add will either be too few or too many. If they donít improve speed, itís just a body usability-upgrade on an already very nice camera to use, welcome, but not a huge seller or GAS inducing upgrade. If they do improve speed, itís too close to the A1. So better for them to up the MP, and keep the speed at or slightly better than r4.




Feb 08, 2022 at 03:34 PM
dave unwin
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · A7RV


One thing to consider if $$ are important to you at all (they are to me!) is that an A7RV is likely to be considerably more expensive than the A7RIV is going for now. I picked up my A7RIVa for AU$3500 new, which is less than the A7IV is going for. I would expect the A7RV to be more like AU$6500 when it's released.

I still think at A7RIV + used A9 is one of the best combo's going around.



Feb 08, 2022 at 03:48 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · A7RV


DavidBM wrote:
I suspect that the r5 will have a stacked sensor, if it is 100MP.
Why? Because unless it does I doubt it can equal the r4 in terms of readout speed and burst speed at that resolution.
While I agree it makes sense for Sony to ensure that the A1 stays faster in those respects than the r5, if the r5 is worse than r4 all hell will break loose. So yes, stacked sensor, but just enough to ensure that it maybe slightly exceeds r4 in terms of rolling shutter and burst rate, not enough to approach the speed demons.

I also doubt
...Show more

So true considering the A7R4 goes for $2,000 used. The R5 needs more than a few usability features.



Feb 08, 2022 at 03:50 PM
Asael
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · A7RV


The r4 is a great camera, it would be just as great when the r5 is released, and at $2K itís a steal.
Would I also get the r5? Maybe. But only if it has a 100+ mp sensor (and then the r4 would still be a great backup camera at half the price). At ďworse caseĒ you can sell the r4, letís say for $1k so youíll have a great camera for $1k / year. Works for me. YMMV



Feb 08, 2022 at 05:20 PM
Asael
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · A7RV


P.S. Cameras are a tool, not an investment.


Feb 08, 2022 at 05:33 PM
ScottCureton
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · A7RV


I've been holding off upgrading my gear until the dust settled between Nikon and Sony. I assembled my dream team of Nikon FX gear (D850+D750) just as mirrorless was taking off. Regardless of which manufacturer I select, I'll have to completely re-purchase my system, so switching to Sony is a high probability.

My A7rv wish list probably isn't very popular, but I use a camera to take pictures, and the A7r's have always seemed to opt for better resolution, dynamic range, and color bit depth at the expense of video performance. And (coming from a life-long Nikon shooter) Sony has a clear edge on Nikon in most areas.

I wanted an A7riva until I used one for a weekend, immediately after shooting a GFX100. I'm not trying to make a comparison between the two, and I find the Sony image quality well beyond acceptable. But the Fuji...man I love the controls and top-end layout. It's just too big, too expensive, and I'm not impressed with the lens quality or selection compared to Nikon, Tamron, or Sony G glass.

So that leaves me wishing for an A7rv with parts of my favorite Nikons and parts of the Fuji. The Fuji's "dual tilt" screen is MUCH more useful than a flippy fold-around. The Fuji's top screen is also fantastic. And it really needs a sensor-shield to control sensor dust, something I noticed within an hour of using the A7riva. A stacked 45-60 mpx sensor not unlike the A1 would be great. I do tons of astro work, so backlit buttons of the D850 and extended shutter speeds (30+ seconds) of the Nikon Z7ii are highly appreciated.

I love the size and image quality of the A1 and A7riva. But honestly, the controls feel cluttered, and I'm not thrilled about giving up a top-screen. If Sony could shove my wish list into the next A7rv at <$4,000, it would be a dream come true, and I think it would answer the call of thousands off others like me who don't care to spend $6500 on an A1 and basically never use the video features.

Forgive my long (first) post. Maybe Sony will hear my cry lol.



Feb 08, 2022 at 08:36 PM
morris e
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · A7RV


ScottCureton wrote:
I've been holding off upgrading my gear until the dust settled between Nikon and Sony. I assembled my dream team of Nikon FX gear (D850+D750) just as mirrorless was taking off. Regardless of which manufacturer I select, I'll have to completely re-purchase my system, so switching to Sony is a high probability.

My A7rv wish list probably isn't very popular, but I use a camera to take pictures, and the A7r's have always seemed to opt for better resolution, dynamic range, and color bit depth at the expense of video performance. And (coming from a life-long Nikon shooter) Sony has
...Show more

Only half-joking, but have you looked at the Pentax K-1? Itís missing only a few of the features you mentioned, but if thatís your true wishlist, you should take a close look ó especially for astrophotography. I moved from the K-1 to the A7r4 and didnít notice any improvement in image quality.



Feb 08, 2022 at 11:06 PM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · A7RV


morris e wrote:
Only half-joking, but have you looked at the Pentax K-1? Itís missing only a few of the features you mentioned, but if thatís your true wishlist, you should take a close look ó especially for astrophotography. I moved from the K-1 to the A7r4 and didnít notice any improvement in image quality.


Did you not notice an increase in lens choice perhaps?

I've had 4 Pentax cameras (plus the 3 Amigos) and have a real soft spot for them but the lack of lens options is a real issue.



Feb 09, 2022 at 01:35 AM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · A7RV


mawz wrote:
Video in general doesn't reward high-MP sensors. It's more demanding on noise performance and bitrate, less on resolution.

The high-MP bodies have exactly the opposite set of performance parameters. Frankly, the A7R's are not the body to choose if you are at all serious about video, they're too much money for not enough performance. They're perfectly fine for mild to moderate use or B-cam if you have your video body already setup for a different view.

Only the recent 8K fad has made higher-MP video cameras at all attractive and that tops out at 45-50MP practically (and fad 8K is for
...Show more

I'm pretty sure that 4K is has already supplanted 1080p worldwide. In fact your own stats prove it with 44% 4K penetration in the USA meaning the consumer does indeed care about 4K (marketing).

I bought a new TV last month, spending a month researching and going to view multiple models (Sony, Samsung, Phillips, TCL etc. etc.) before buying. Not a single TV's resolution was less than 4K with maybe 20% 8K (bear in mind I live in Shanghai). We ended up buying a Hi-Sense 4K simply because we could afford a much larger panel buying 4K than if we'd bought an 8K. All of the newer content, whether it be films, TV series et al are all broadcast in 4K.

It's only the likes of YouTube & torrents etc. than remain mostly 1080p (or 720) and that's likely because the majority of their stock is at 1080p and because they are viewed on computer monitors and phones where 4K is a less obvious improvement, and because download speeds need fast cable or WiFi and higher computer specs to replay them or send to a TV.

The big advantage with all of these new TVs though is their ability to upscale 1080p to 4K (and the 8K models upscale 4K to 8K) even though, from my sample viewing it was not quite the same as genuine 4K, it was still impressive.

As far as cameras go I absolutely agree - there is a reason Sony's best video camera is 12MP and there is no way they are not going to create a degree of separation between models or allow their stills cameras to intrude on to video cam territory.





Feb 09, 2022 at 02:11 AM
TravelinBriNY
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · A7RV


In exactly the same predicament. Looking at combining an A9III and A7RV - I like to travel with two cameras - as opposed to the A1. No idea when they will be announced but going on the assumption (for now) that I won't have either of these in 2022.


Feb 09, 2022 at 04:52 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · A7RV


Frogfish wrote:
I'm pretty sure that 4K is has already supplanted 1080p worldwide. In fact your own stats prove it with 44% 4K penetration in the USA meaning the consumer does indeed care about 4K (marketing).

I bought a new TV last month, spending a month researching and going to view multiple models (Sony, Samsung, Phillips, TCL etc. etc.) before buying. Not a single TV's resolution was less than 4K with maybe 20% 8K (bear in mind I live in Shanghai). We ended up buying a Hi-Sense 4K simply because we could afford a much larger panel buying 4K than if we'd
...Show more

Note thatís 44% of households with A 4K TV, not 44% of TVís. Since households often have more than 1 TV, the actual penetration is worse. Growing, but still not really great.

I agree that what you can buy today is almost completely 4K, the growth of 4K today isnít about content, but simple replacement of old TVís. There was a big boom on HD sets a decade ago and those are aging and getting replaced with 4K sets. Thatís why upscaling is such a big deal, one of the limiters on 4K sales for a long time was that HD content looked worse on 4K than on a good HD set. While the average consumer is very insensitive to IQ (which is why HD was in the same position as 4K is today for a long time), they also donít tend to buy less quality and all their content is HD.

Most content is still HD, by an absolutely massive margin. The amount of available 4K broadcast stuff remains fairly low (the limiter is more cable boxes than the broadcast quality, it leaves the studio in 4K and arrives at the house in HD), and again, 4K cable boxes are growing more as an attrition item than anything else. The only real bastion of 4K content outside of live sports broadcasts (which were 4K long before anything else ways, hardcore sports fans were the driver for 4K more than anything else) is actually streaming content, if you have the connection for it and thatís still a poor bet for the average consumer.

4K is still a few years away from market dominance in terms of penetration. Itís actually getting there, but again largely because you canít actually buy anything else anymore and people do eventually need to replace their TVís.

Iíd bet that somewhere around 2024 4K will break 60% penetration and really be there on the consumer end (the growth rate is accelerating, but note itís also accelerating at exactly the same point where we are a decade after the last big boom in TV sales, and that says attrition is driving it more than anything else).

I will note that one of the other drivers of upgrading TV's today is the availability of the PS5 and Xbox One X, having real 4K game consoles does drive upgrades to 4K TV's in a way that broadcast content (aside from Sports) simply has never done.



Feb 09, 2022 at 07:30 AM
lattesweden
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · A7RV


TravelinBriNY wrote:
In exactly the same predicament. Looking at combining an A9III and A7RV - I like to travel with two cameras - as opposed to the A1. No idea when they will be announced but going on the assumption (for now) that I won't have either of these in 2022.


I'm the same boat. I like to have three bodys for some projects so I slice it like this: One high res somewhat slower body mainly for landscapes/cityscapes etc. One fast one, with best possible AF for long tele lenses and a compact body primary for daily use. At the moment I am on an A7RII, A9 and A7C. Not sure how to move along from there, but I have found that it is hard to plan ahead since one never knows what comes out next. So just stay in the moment and do the best you can right now.



Feb 09, 2022 at 08:54 AM
1      
2
       3       4       5       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       4       5       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username      Reset password