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Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

CanadaMark
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

bs kite wrote:
But wait! If the choices are 60 vs120 for wildlife videographers who like slow mo..... why not use 120 fps all the time? What would be the disadvantage?

One thing to be aware of with regards to using 60fps or 120fps and using it on a 24/30fps timeline (not that it's necessarily a bad thing) is that it is not the same as simply shooting at the slower frame rates to begin with. You have to drop frames, however the frames that are kept would have been captured at a much higher shutter speed (roughly 1/120 for 60fps and 1/240 for 120fps) than if they were shot at native 24 or 30fps (1/50 or 1/60 respectively). The shutter speed "rules" are not set in stone but it's generally what works best for most applications. This does make the footage look more unnatural and have more of a clinical "soap opera" effect to it. If you're using it for slo-mo, it's not really an issue as you're still using all the frames, but just something to be aware of if you shoot at 60-120fps and then decide later to convert everything to a 24/30 fps timeline. It's also better if you can do even multiples, so 60fps will reduce to 30fps better than 24fps and 120fps can reduce to either evenly.

Generally speaking though, 60fps is good for action/wildlife and most displays these days can handle 60fps playback no problem. I believe 4K/60P is also where the Z8/Z9 can still oversample from 8K which will give you the highest quality 4K footage. If you want to play back 4K/120fps footage at it's native frame rate (without slow-mo), you will need a source and display that supports that, which is less common.

Jun 22, 2023 at 10:50 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

Ok, then that's why it is back to 4K 60 fps and not 120 fps.

I know that you knew that Gary, We talked about it in a PM as I recall.

Jun 22, 2023 at 11:18 AM

Gary Irwin
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

bs kite wrote:
But wait! If the choices are 60 vs120 for wildlife videographers who like slow mo..... why not use 120 fps all the time? What would be the disadvantage?

In addition to CanadaMarks comments...

The problem with shooting 120p all the time and outputting a slower timeline is the relative shutter speeds are incompatible. For example, following the "180-degree" shutter angle rule-of-thumb, capturing imagery at 120p means setting the shutter speed at 1/250s. When outputting to a 30p timeline the NLE will simply drop 3 out of every for frames to produce the final video, but a 30p timeline would normally be shot with a 1/60s shutter, and a 30p timeline with a 1/250s shutter looks choppy and unnatural.

That's why it's always best that the capture and timeline are the same fps and the shutter speed is roughly 2x the fps rate.

BUT, there are tricks and workarounds, sort of...

I often need the extra reach that the Z9's 4k 2.3x DX supercrop mode offers, but it forces me to shoot 120p. If I'm shooting a scene that I *know* I will be outputting the 120p footage into a 30p timeline using 4x slow motion where every frame will be used, then I'll set the shutter speed to 1/250s and the slow-motion output will look natural.

BUT with the camera set to capture 120p and I know the scene that I'm shooting will not be outputted in slow-mo, which means the NLE will be dropping frames, I'll reduce the shutter speed to 1/125s -- the minimum allowed for 120p. This means that even though only one out of every four frames is being used, the shutter speed is a longer 1/120s rather than the normal 1/250 - which makes the output less "choppy". So you can compensate somewhat by adjusting the shutter speed IF you know at the time of capture what the output will be for that particular clip.

Hope this makes sense.

Edited on Jun 22, 2023 at 04:02 PM · View previous versions

Jun 22, 2023 at 12:21 PM

CanadaMark
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

More good info from Gary above.

One more thing I forgot to add - if you are using the really high frame rates, and the accompanying suggested shutter speed, available light can become a constraint. Shooting at 120fps (1/240sec) in dim conditions can be challenging compared to say 30fps 1/60 where you're getting 4 times more light collection assuming the same aperture and ISO settings. Yet another thing to consider on the already long list

Also, regardless of frame rate, shutter speeds that are too high make any constant motion look extremely jerky (waves in water or something like a moving car makes it very obvious). You see this all the time in video footage shot in auto with no ND filters, where the shutter speed ends up at 1/1000 or whatever. The frames are very sharp, but the footage will look bad.

Jun 22, 2023 at 03:54 PM

bs kite
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

I was curious just how much of an issue heating might be when shooting video with my Z8.

The camera was set to Video and the REC was pressed and left on for 10 minutes. Then I immediately repeated the first test (another 10 minutes).

Results:

>. Following the first 10 minutes I could feel no warming of the Z8 body and the card was just slightly warm.

>. Following the second 10 minutes the bottom of the camera was warm and the card was very warm, but not hot.

For the ways that I shoot I doubt I will have a problem. Maybe I will down the road, but for now I don't see a problem.

Jul 03, 2023 at 05:20 AM

sjms
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

missing information: make, model, size of card.

Jul 03, 2023 at 05:30 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

Yes, and I am glad you entered here.

I will not open it now because it is transferring via Nikon Transfer NX. It just finished the 1st video (7-8 minutes transfer time) and is now transferring the second one. Once it does that it will zip through the NEF rapidly.

I will post the card make, model, size in a few minutes

Jul 03, 2023 at 05:44 AM

sjms
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

Jul 03, 2023 at 05:49 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

Delkin Devices BLACK 150 GB

What does that last number mean? I am disappointed that this card does not have the write and read speeds printed on the front. This card came from B and H and is the fastest that Delkin has.

Or it. is supposed to be.

Edited on Jul 03, 2023 at 07:14 AM · View previous versions

Jul 03, 2023 at 05:51 AM

sjms
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

PM sent. i have 4 of those. using HE* thats a bit over 16.4K images

Jul 03, 2023 at 06:02 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

I am registering it now.

The link did not open through fm forum, so I just typed it out.

Jul 03, 2023 at 06:17 AM

sjms
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

as usual. but edit out the number off the page where you are asking what it is

Jul 03, 2023 at 06:20 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

If you have 4 of them, they must be good. It is registered.

Jul 03, 2023 at 06:22 AM

snapsy
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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

I posted a write-up about how N-Log implements ISO. Addresses the following questions:

Why does N-Log have a higher minimum ISO (800) than ISO 64/100 for standard definition (SDR)?

Why does video achieve the highest DR with N-Log at ISO 800 but the highest DR for still images is at ISO 64/100?

Should I use N-Log when shooting NRAW video?

When Nikon added ISO 200-640 (Lo 2.0 to 0.3) support for N-Log to the Z9 in Firmware 4.0, why did the Nikon's Firmware 4.0 notes warn of reduced DR when shooting at those lower ISOs?

Which ISOs produce the cleanest shadows for both SDR and N-Log?

Link: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67101273

Jul 03, 2023 at 06:58 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

sjms wrote:
as usual. but edit out the number off the page where you are asking what it is

edited out

Jul 03, 2023 at 07:15 AM

sum1sgrampa
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

bs kite wrote:

Thanks for posting these links Robert. I don't think it's a stretch to say that many of us here may be lost in this little microcosm that is FM Forums. Thinking these forums are a representation of whats actually going on in photography. When you step outside the box, as you have by posting these links, we can see that there are people out there creating some amazing content with these tools we have. Not sitting around complaining about all the shortcomings. To be clear, I'm speaking in general terms, not this thread specifically.
Gary

Jul 03, 2023 at 07:42 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

sum1sgrampa wrote:
Thanks for posting these links Robert. I don't think it's a stretch to say that many of us here may be lost in this little microcosm that is FM Forums. Thinking these forums are a representation of whats actually going on in photography. When you step outside the box, as you have by posting these links, we can see that there are people out there creating some amazing content with these tools we have. Not sitting around complaining about all the shortcomings. To be clear, I'm speaking in general terms, not this thread specifically.
Gary

Thank you Gary. And thanks for posting the video. I hope I have enough heat sink in the Z8 to carry the modest amount of video I do.

I just PM'd a video leader/tutor, Gary Irwin. I need his opinion now. Is that test enough for what I do. I think so. But if need be, I will get a Z9

I am guessing that you are the kind of guy who will step out and get into some video clips and do a good job of it.

My guess

Jul 03, 2023 at 08:41 AM

Gary Irwin
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

Hi Robert;

If you're asking about the card heating, I can't add much value since I don't have a Z8. I can tell you that pretty well ALL CfE cards heat up to some degree when recording high bit rate video for any length of time. I have a "relatively" inexpensive 2TB Sabrent Pro card that got quite hot in my Z9 during test recording 8k60p video for 20 minutes, but since I rarely record for more than a minute or two, I was satisfied with that. I really don't know how the Z8 would compare, but as long as the clips are sporadic and short I doubt there would be a problem with most cards.

(BTW I prefer high capacity cards not because I shoot long-form video, but because I want the option to shoot RAW and be able to shoot all day on one card.)

Jul 03, 2023 at 10:05 AM

bs kite
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

Thanks Gary, Hi

I am just concerned if this Z8 will hold up to a video load.... specifically, the heat. I think it will, based on the results of the two tests in the post above. However, if I had done a 3rd 10 minutes on REC that card would have been HOT enough that I would not have been able to hold it

I believe what you think too; i.e. as long as the clips are sporadic and short.... there won't be a problem with heat.

That's a good idea getting a second card as the first one may get hot. And I agree that I'll probably get a larger one second time around.

Jul 03, 2023 at 02:45 PM

bs kite
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · Z9 and Z8!: A thread for videos and video tutorials.

Did a lot of video this morning on the water with a loon family.

I can now say I love what this camera does!

Jul 07, 2023 at 04:05 PM

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