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Official: Leica M11

  
 
Desmolicious
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Official: Leica M11


1joel1 wrote:
Here's another review from DPreview:



Joel


That preview/review was much more informative than the one above it. That one just gushed praise, no mention of issues.
The DPreview showed the 2 seconddelay (just leave the camera on and let it go to standby), the delay in single shot mode (leave it in continuous low), the battery access blocked by a tripod plate etc. As well as all the great stuff!

That battery life is pretty incredible - 50% remaining after 600 shots and leaving it on all day.

This is a killer M. I'd be so bummed if I recently bought an M10R.



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:15 PM
burningheart
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Official: Leica M11


Fred Miranda wrote:
I find Jordan's reviews practical and objective and that's important when reviewing an emotional camera like the M.

So far, he is the only reviewer acknowledging the use the Sony A7R IV's BSI 61MP sensor which I think was a great move for Leica.


That's Chris who discusses stills, Jordan is the videographer who talks about video capabilities. Chris used to be my contact at TCS before he and Jordan moved onto DPReview.




Jan 13, 2022 at 01:20 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Official: Leica M11


Fred Miranda wrote:
I find Jordan's reviews practical and objective and that's important when reviewing an emotional camera like the M.

So far, he is the only reviewer acknowledging the use the Sony A7R IV's BSI 61MP sensor which I think was a great move for Leica.

Here is what to expect from the M10, M10-R and M11(A7R IV) sensors:

Dynamic Range:
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica%20M10,Leica%20M10-R,Sony%20ILCE-7RM4

Read Noise:
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Leica%20M10_14,Leica%20M10-R_14,Sony%20ILCE-7RM4_14

It should offer noticeable higher DR in comparison to the M10 and M10R at ISO 100, 200 and above 16000 but as Jordan mentioned, there is one caveat. Since the base ISO is now 64, the first gain could come a bit earlier,
...Show more

Jono Slack in his review said his impression is the low res modes don't increase DR over downsized 60 MP files. I think that is likely. This would make file size the only advantage of the lower res files, but an equally interesting question in my view is whether there is any penalty to upscaling the lower res files to 60 MP. I would guess there will be, but if there is not penalty to upscaling the lower res files, there is little reason not to use the lower res files.



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:21 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Official: Leica M11


Steve Spencer wrote:
Jono Slack in his review said his impression is the low res modes don't increase DR over downsized 60 MP files. I think that is likely. This would make file size the only advantage of the lower res files, but an equally interesting question in my view is whether there is any penalty to upscaling the lower res files to 60 MP. I would guess there will be, but if there is not penalty to upscaling the lower res files, there is little reason not to use the lower res files.


It's interesting he also mentioned that he was getting slightly more blown highlights with the M11 compared to the M10-R. Not sure if he did a proper test for this.

I'm expecting the M11 to have ~1 stop higher DR at base ISO compared to the M10-R. The latter already have
~1 stop advantage compared to the vanilla M10.



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:24 PM
astrobuoy
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Official: Leica M11


The thing I'm particularly piqued by in his review is what he says about the difference in color rendering between the M10-R and M11. He mentions finding the colors from the 10-R more "charming", while the M11 feel more realistic and true-to-life. I'm really hoping to hear more about this particular aspect once we start seeing more photos from the new camera, as it echoes what a few early recipients of the M11 have mentioned in the rendering between the two cameras. I find the M10-R to be, as another review put it, "filmic", which is a look I personally adore.


Jan 13, 2022 at 01:29 PM
Desmolicious
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Official: Leica M11


derKoekje wrote:
Great review by the way. I wasn't too impressed with the M11 from the announcement standpoint but this review really dove deep on the improvements under the hood. I'm a big fan of the light meter, electronic shutter (1/16000th), new battery and improved live view. It just feels a lot more complete as an ultimate manual focus camera but now you can make the experience as analogue or modern as you'd like.

I will say that in Kai W's video, the black paint aluminium finish looks atrocious and I wish the black paint version was the one that would brass rather
...Show more

I much prefer reviews like Slack's that are NOT video based, as I like to look at the pics. And he has some really nice ones, especially the fishing boat.
It is interesting how he says the black finish is super durable and very difficult to mark - yet Kai shows the opposite.



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:35 PM
EdwardDye
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Official: Leica M11


WOW 60MP, Leica is really full speed into the High MP side.


Jan 13, 2022 at 01:36 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Official: Leica M11


Fred Miranda wrote:
It's interesting he also mentioned that he was getting slightly more blown highlights with the M11 compared to the M10-R. Not sure if he did a proper test for this.


He was pretty clear he didn't do a proper test. It was just his impression. I think the blown highlights might be mostly about using the new metering. The new metering may well take an adjustment in exposure strategy.



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:37 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Official: Leica M11




Desmolicious wrote:
That preview/review was much more informative than the one above it. That one just gushed praise, no mention of issues.
The DPreview showed the 2 seconddelay (just leave the camera on and let it go to standby), the delay in single shot mode (leave it in continuous low), the battery access blocked by a tripod plate etc. As well as all the great stuff!

That battery life is pretty incredible - 50% remaining after 600 shots and leaving it on all day.

This is a killer M. I'd be so bummed if I recently bought an M10R.


I'd want to try the M11 and determine for myself how annoying that delay is in single frame advance. In the other M11 thread I posted I would like to see a firmware change to allow a 'no metering' option to use purely mechanical shutter without the lags imposed by the off-sensor metering.

At least for me, I rely on metering only on infrequent occasions in quickly changing lighting. Normally I'm 'sunny f/16' in that I know how my camera exposes in sunlight and ignore the meter. Or I'll do a test shot to establish the correct exposure for a given scene. And with this new sensor's improved dynamic range, being off (under) a stop or two won't be a big deal most of the time.

Who knows... if the delay imposed by the metering system is annoying in enough of the situations I typically use an M, I might find myself favoring the M10-R instead of the M11 when I'm eventually in the position to transition to one of the two.

Edited on Jan 13, 2022 at 01:41 PM · View previous versions



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:39 PM
burningheart
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Official: Leica M11


Red Dot just showed the handgrip for the M11. Those wanting to shoot from a tripod this handgrip is a solution.

It is Arca Swiss, there is a rubber section so you can open to access the battery and battery release and if you don't use the Arca Swiss to attach it to your tripod the tripod mount is moved off to the end of the handgrip instead of the centre.



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:41 PM
 


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Fred Miranda
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Official: Leica M11


Steve Spencer wrote:
He was pretty clear he didn't do a proper test. It was just his impression. I think the blown highlights might be mostly about using the new metering. The new metering may well take an adjustment in exposure strategy.


Yes, without a proper test it's hard to know for sure. A lot of Leica users are still unaware that the M10-R has better DR than the M10 since the initial reviews were not accurate. The Leica M10's base ISO is actually 200, not 100. We still need to test if ISO 64 is really the base ISO for the M11. It's possible that the base ISO is still 100 pulled to 64.

Here is what Jono wrote about this and he thought it was significant enough to include in the review:

"The dynamic range seems to be very good (but I don't really have a way of measuring it); it is at least as good as the M10-R and probably a little better, although I found it very slightly easier to blow highlights than with the M10-R"



Jan 13, 2022 at 01:47 PM
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Official: Leica M11


Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica M11




Jan 13, 2022 at 01:52 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Official: Leica M11


Fred Miranda wrote:
Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica M11


Gah, it's 2 hours long! Anyone care to summarize it for the rest of us?



Jan 13, 2022 at 02:32 PM
burningheart
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Official: Leica M11


rscheffler wrote:
Gah, it's 2 hours long! Anyone care to summarize it for the rest of us?


David's written review is referenced quite often.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2022/01/leica-m11-review-the-ultimate-digital-m/



Jan 13, 2022 at 02:42 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Official: Leica M11


rscheffler wrote:
Gah, it's 2 hours long! Anyone care to summarize it for the rest of us?


Basically the guy on the right of the screen (Josh?) keeps saying everything is a game-changer!



Jan 13, 2022 at 02:47 PM
Desmolicious
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Official: Leica M11


Steve Huff sez the M11 sucks.

Strangely he was not offered a camera to review.



Jan 13, 2022 at 03:06 PM
Desmolicious
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Official: Leica M11


Desmolicious wrote:
I guess what that means is Leica is discontinuing the Visoflex 2, and this just allows a semblance of compatibility for that.

I would guess that Leica could enable the full resolution with the M10, but don't because they want people to step up to the 11.


For M10 users, all this means is a hike in price and size with no gain in function. $740 vs $660.
Get the old one at a discount while you can!



Jan 13, 2022 at 03:13 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Official: Leica M11


Not a favorable review?




Jan 13, 2022 at 03:14 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Official: Leica M11


Desmolicious wrote:
Steve Huff sez the M11 sucks.

Strangely he was not offered a camera to review.




Very curious about the IQ and DR and binning. Also think itís stupid Leica doesnít include IBIS at 61mp. Regardless, lots of fun stuff. Seems like a meaningful upgrade.



Jan 13, 2022 at 03:14 PM
naturephoto1
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Official: Leica M11


nehemiahphoto wrote:


Very curious about the IQ and DR and binning. Also think itís stupid Leica doesnít include IBIS at 61mp. Regardless, lots of fun stuff. Seems like a meaningful upgrade.


To take advantage of the 60/61 MP you will need extremely good technique and a high enough shutter speed or some sort of support for the camera/lens.

Rich




Jan 13, 2022 at 03:20 PM
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