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Archive 2022 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?

  
 
Dr Al
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


I currently have the Sigma that I use for nightscapes with my a7R IVa. Now I want to get more into shooting the sky and stack images. The Sigma works but it seems like F/1.8 would be a nice step up. I'm not sure if I would have much use for 14mm lens for anything else though since I have the Sigma. The other option would be to get something like the Ioptron Skyguider. I think I like this option better as I would be able to use slower tele lenses and do deep space shooting as well.

But I have an old Meade 8" LX200 that my father left me that has sat waiting for me to do things like upgrade the caps and and other upgrades. Since I have a sentimental attachment to the Meade it's just a matter of time before I go through it. It looks like there's several different directions I can go. So it's going to take time to decide which way is best. Also the Meade with it's tripod is very heavy so it'll mostly be used on my deck.

I do use the Sigma for landscapes and for indoor events. It pairs nicely with my 24-105 G for what I do (which is more on the telephoto side of photography). I'm trying not to do what I always seem to do. End up getting into a hobby and buying lots of stuff that it turns out I really don't use anywhere near enough. I could sell the Sigma and limit myself to just the prime but I've been leaning towards zooms until I get a better sense of what size primes would work best for me.

I didn't see an astrophotography section here so I posted it in the Sony section. I'm sure the A7R IV isn't the best camera for shooting high iso pictures so I figured those who do it could give their opnion.



Jan 02, 2022 at 01:19 PM
Zayne12
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


I've had both lenses and ended up selling the sigma 14-24 and kept the 14 gm as it's easier to pack and lighter and with the a7riv I can crop to 21mm no problem. I've also used a star tracker with both lenses and have samples as well. The nice thing with the faster aperture is you can expose for half the time. So an exposure at iso 800 f2.8 and 4 minutes on the sigma you can do iso 800 f1.8 and less than 2 minutes since it's a stop and a third faster. Les time on the tracker will help mitigate some issues such as accidental shaking or incorrect alignment. I'm using the vixen star tracker which is well built although a little heavy but I like it. If you have more questions please feel free to ask.


Jan 02, 2022 at 03:05 PM
Dr Al
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


I did look at a couple of other brands of trackers. Vixen looks like they are no longer sold in the US. I want something that has a counterweight system and can handle a 200-600 lens.


Jan 02, 2022 at 04:35 PM
Zayne12
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?



Vixen does have a counterweight system but than you're looking at putting around a grand on just the tracker and counterweight.they still sell on b&h as well as on ebay and they have a newer lighter model but it is pricey for what it is.


Dr Al wrote:
I did look at a couple of other brands of trackers. Vixen looks like they are no longer sold in the US. I want something that has a counterweight system and can handle a 200-600 lens.




Jan 02, 2022 at 04:45 PM
DistantPlaces
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


I do not have any of the lenses mentioned, so just some general thoughts:

The 14mm GM will allow you to pack light and greatly simplify/speed up the image acquisition. Exposures up to 20s without visible trailing should be possible, meaning you can go down with the ISO quite a bit. This lens has a good reputation for UWA astro and personally I am also very interested in its performance as timelapse lens (

)
The limitation will be in the detail level you can achieve. In my experience, tracking is superior to stacking - some fainter star colors/nebulaes only seem to come through if you have a minimum amount of exposure time.

For maximum detail/IQ in nightscape astro you need to look for the best signal to noise ratio, which with Sony Alpha cameras is typically somewhere around ISO 640-800 - too low to handle without tracking.
A tracker adds more weight and a lot more complexity to the whole process but you will get better results. Using your Sigma 14-24mm with a tracker seems like a reasonable choice - and you also keep flexibility as you can adapt the FL for even more detail if you don't need to go all the way to 14mm.

The route I took was:
UWA lens stacked/untracked --> UWA lens stacked+tracked --> medium FL (50mm+) tracked and stitched as panorama
Each of these steps significantly improved the end results and I would not go back. So personally I am glad I did not invest into another dedicated UWA for nightscapes as I hardly shoot UWA anymore. Not saying UWA lenses are not suitable for nightscapes, just pointing out their limitations and making you aware that if you ever want to go deeper into the hobby (=longer FL) you might want to skip the UWA investment - especially since you already have the Sigma.

Regarding the trackers, the iOptron is good as is the Sky Watcher Star adventurer line, which also comes with a counter weight. Since you mentioned a 200-600 lens you might also want to check out the Fornax LightTrack, which has superior tracking accuracy - ideal for deep space.
On the cheaper/lighter end, there is the Move-Shoot-Move tracker which is only around 200 USD - it's a great entry level option for people who are not sure yet if tracking is for them. This one is only for UWA/WA lenses though.
I am using the relatively new Vixen Polarie U. Apparently it can still be hard to get in the US but I heard of at least 3 people who got it there last year.



Jan 02, 2022 at 07:44 PM
Michael Gordon
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


Seems to be many differing opinions on this difficult choice.

See this thread:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1731909/0#15792376

I hope to avoid a kit like this:

https://stephenbayphotography.com/blog/equipment-for-tracked-panoramas-of-the-night-sky/




Jan 03, 2022 at 01:56 PM
Michael Gordon
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


DistantPlaces wrote:
I do not have any of the lenses mentioned, so just some general thoughts:

The 14mm GM will allow you to pack light and greatly simplify/speed up the image acquisition. Exposures up to 20s without visible trailing should be possible, meaning you can go down with the ISO quite a bit. This lens has a good reputation for UWA astro and personally I am also very interested in its performance as timelapse lens (

)
The limitation will be in the detail level you can achieve. In my experience, tracking is superior to stacking - some fainter star colors/nebulaes only seem to come
...Show more

As I understand it the cam has dual base ISO and largely ISO invariant above 320. Nothing much should be lost in the shadows by upping the ISO as long as highlights are not clipped.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7RM4

Total EDR (engineering dynamic range) according to Jim Kasson is lower but I am not sure how he defines that. I just wonder how much IQ is gained by a couple stops lower ISO. Just seeking clarification.
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riv-edr-vs-raw-format-and-shutter-mode/



Jan 03, 2022 at 05:49 PM
JimKasson
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


Michael Gordon wrote:
Total EDR (engineering dynamic range) according to Jim Kasson is lower but I am not sure how he defines that. I


The definition I use is full scale divided by rms read noise.

Jim




Jan 05, 2022 at 11:57 AM
LeeRatters
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · GM 14mm f/1.8 or tracker and Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 for astrophotography?


A tracker opens up many more opportunities & benefits (especially a 'heavy duty' one - I use the Move Shoot Move) compared to a lens purchase.


Jan 09, 2022 at 04:52 PM





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