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Archive 2021 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems

  
 
bjhurley
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


I have a small Dedo Lightstream system that I use for cinematography but am curious whether these reflectors are catching on among photographers as well. These are not standard reflectors: they come in different diffusion levels (12º, 50º and 95º) and sizes, and reflect 95 percent of received light. You can see a video overview and some explanations here: https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/collections/lightstream and the competing CRLS reflectors have loads of tutorials and overviews at https://www.thelightbridge.com/.

The main benefits are in reducing the actual number of lights you need (e.g., the #1 reflector is essentially a mirror and can split off the light source to multiple reflectors in different locations); there's no need for softboxes, umbrellas, etc. because the reflectors provide their own diffusion; and you get more natural light falloff by effectively increasing the distance of the light source. You can see a discussion of this here: https://youtu.be/-C0bHgkRGw8

These systems have made strong inroads in cinema, although they have some drawbacks (you have to take time to think through your setup and the reflected light can jiggle from floor vibrations when people are walking around on set); I haven't seen much discussion of them in the photography world although I've seen a few recommendations for them.

I'm using mine with a small (40watt) Dedolight LED with the parallel beam intensifier, which increases the light's effective output by nearly 600 percent. So I'm using very little power but getting a strong light that can be split to multiple reflectors; I got it as a portable kit to light video interviews with just one light and it works reasonably well for that.

I'm planning to start using it for stills portraits as well; I'm not a studio photographer so I like having a portable system for portraits although this is stretching the limits of portability (having to bring C-stands for the reflectors is the main drawback). I've also used the reflectors to reflect sunlight in natural-light photos and they work well for that although there are obviously cheaper options available.

Anyway I'm curious to see if many people are using these (with continuous light or strobes) for photography.



Dec 30, 2021 at 06:27 AM
rico
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


One of those with 0º diffusion is mounted in my bathroom. I think it's called a mirror.

But, seriously, I have seen official products demostrated in YT clips, and the first thing I thought was "profit center". Most of us studio mavens have reflectors of every kind: mirrors, alu foil, glossy and matte white panels. I have even used baking trays from my kitchen for backyard flowers. You can also spend the big bucks on Hollywood-grade reflectors with integrated yokes.

Distance projection of one light source to various points on the set requires it to be strong and tightly collimated, which is not at all normal for stills photography (unless sunlight is used). It would also require a modelling light with similar properties to adjust all the bounce angles. I own exactly one fixture with this capability (strobed DP-1) and it costs a heap of money. I don't see this approach taking over the world, frankly.



Dec 30, 2021 at 01:57 PM
story_teller
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


I can see it for video, but it seems cumbersome for stills and portraits.


Dec 30, 2021 at 06:51 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


Back in the 90s photographer Dean Collins had an instructional video series and I remember one was about single-light set-ups with reflectors and diffusers along a similar line of thinking.

California Sunbounce is a similar concept to CRLS, aimed at photographers, though not quite as refined.

This is the first I've seen of CRLS and Lightstream. It's quite interesting and would be fun to play with in the studio. I think the challenge for me as a stills photographer is that the work to set up the secondary reflectors isn't really any less than setting up additional strobes for hair, rim, background lights, etc. The benefit of the separate lights is I can move, modify and adjust intensity independently without considering their position relative to the main light source. Some of this can be done with the panels by changing the diffusion quality, using ND gels to cut intensity and playing with distance to adjust how specular or diffuse the light is relative to the subject. One of the limitations I see is modifying light quality if you need/want a larger light source. The largest CRLS panel is 100cm. The typical light modifier I use for head & shoulder portraits is a 100cm Elinchrom Deep Octa. And I consider it a relatively small modifier. If I'm doing larger groups, I usually want a larger, more diffuse light source. Here this concept with the panels means bringing in a larger diffusion silk to shoot the light through. And will require a lot more light output. Actually, if it had to be continuous light, I'd probably opt for the new Parabolix Omni in their largest reflector, assuming it would be a lot more efficient than reflecting light off a panel and through a large silk. But I get the feeling the strength of these systems is more for lighting a single person, or two, if lighting directly off a panel. My impression is cine/video lighting tends to often be more specular than stills. Subject movement/motion distracts a bit from observing light quality very closely. In Dedo's demo video he had the four different panel types set up in the 25cm size. IMO the shadow edge quality of the panels barely changed because they were all the same size, and for my tastes, the light quality from all was too hard because they were too small. There were differences between zero and 90˚ in respect to shadow transition and intensity because of more scatter from the 90˚ panel, but the light still felt hard from the 90˚ panel. Knowing me, I'd probably want the 50 and 100cm CRLS panels, but the latter looks quite bulky to move around and requires a mounting yoke, etc. A 100cm octa will fold up more compactly and is lighter. With the octa I can use inner and outer diffusion panels, just outer, just inner, no diffusion with visible light source for a specular hotspot, or use opaque or translucent deflectors over the light source to remove or modify the hotspot intensity. I could use a similarly sized reflector from Parabolix with their focusing rod and an indirect mounted light source. By moving the light on the focusing rod, the light quality can be changed from flood to spot, or in between, very quickly without changing the modifier itself. I guess with the panels it's just a different approach and can produce similar results with experimentation. As I mentioned earlier, it looks like it would be fun to experiment with these systems.



Dec 31, 2021 at 01:56 AM
c.d.embrey
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


I can see how this system could work well for product photography. One lighting fixture, one light stand, three C-stands and one Lightstream kit looks like a quick and easy solution. The key is the four hard to soft mirrors. Shooting corporate portraits, using window light and a couple of reflectors, would be a piece o' cake.

My main job was motion picture work. Still work for paying clients was a profitable hobby. I'm now retired, but I would buy a Lightstream if I was still working.



Dec 31, 2021 at 04:24 AM
bjhurley
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


I agree with some of these comments; I think the system works beautifully for certain applications but isn't as versatile as conventional approaches. The biggest challenge for me is thinking through the setup; it's a no-brainer with separate lights but with reflectors you have to figure out all the angles and positions. But I've heard gaffers say it takes them much less time to set up than conventional systems, so maybe it's just a matter of retraining your brain. It's a mistake to think of these as just expensive reflectors; the point is less about efficiency than about the quality of light.

The system was developed by the DoP Christian Berger, who is obsessed with recreating the qualities of natural light; there's an interview with him here: https://youtu.be/-ntxviB5XdM

One of the CRLS videos focuses on use cases where they aren't appropriate, and I agree that the smaller kits like the one I have really only work for portraits or interviews with one or at most two people (which is exactly the application I bought it for). I also have a set of the smallest reflectors, which are not only good for tabletop use but also for carving off bits of the main light and redirecting it to other reflectors. It's possible to rig up much bigger systems for television studios, for example: https://www.dedoweigertfilm.de/dwf-en/products/lightstream_content/lightstream_TV.php

They work with any light, but as noted in my first post and in the interview with Christian Berger they are designed to work with parallel beams and that's where they perform the way they were designed. My little system (a 40-watt Dedolight bicolor LED with parallel beam attachment, 4 of the 25cm reflectors and 4 of the smallest reflectors) cost less than two Profoto B-10s and since each reflector can essentially replace a light it's not such an expensive solution. I agree that the 25cm reflectors are too small (although as with any light source you can make them softer by moving them closer to the subject) and I plan to get a couple of the 50cm ones next year. The 40-watt LED is useless on its own, but the parallel beam attachment boosts its light output by about 600 percent.

I often use mine as a self-contained unit by mounting the light on the longer leg of a C-stand and pointing it up to a reflector at the top of the stand. To double the effective distance from the light to reflector you can mount the light near the top of the C-stand pointing down to another reflector mounted on the leg of the C-stand, which then bounces back up to a reflector mounted higher on the C-stand. Some of the CRLS videos illustrate this setup. With this approach, if the 25cm is too hard I suppose you could place a silk between it and the subject, but I'd probably want a stronger light than the one I have; I'll have to experiment.



Dec 31, 2021 at 05:24 AM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


To me, this is such an interesting set-up, though with a more limited use. I do a lot of product photography so I might try this set-up one day, though here is some of my observations:

1. I imagine the catchlight and the fall off of this would be undesirable to put it mildly. I think they should have done a round reflector set instead. I also agree that these reflectors can't be substituted with just any reflector to achieve a similar effect and with similar consistency.

2. I imagine this will work great in a tight space, where you can creatively mount these reflectors instead of using something bigger to mount the regular flash/strobes.

3. This is quite fiddly if you need to set up something quickly.

4. A parallel beam attachment is needed and I personally don't want to get locked in with Dedolight. If they can make a more universal attachment, that would help with the adoption.



Dec 31, 2021 at 07:29 PM
bjhurley
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


hiepphotog wrote:
1. I imagine the catchlight and the fall off of this would be undesirable to put it mildly..


The falloff depends on a number of variables, including which reflector is used; the #3 and #4 can provide a very gradual falloff.

There's a good walkthrough tutorial here that illustrates falloff on a model: https://youtu.be/W87UzK0P3zI



Jan 01, 2022 at 08:22 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


Putting a round mask on a reflector should work for creating a round catchlight.

I think for me it would be a situation of approaching it openminded and willing to relearn habits. Through such experimentation this system would likely generate the same or similar results to what I use now for portraits. But as a still photographer, I do like strobes for easily reaching ~f/8 for sufficient depth of field and motion stopping capability. Often this is at only around 100-150W/s from a 400w/s unit. Secondary lights easily only need to be 100W/s max, which means there are now some very small, inexpensive options if budget was a limitation (i.e. Godox AD100 & 200).

I've yet to try continuous lighting and worry about shutter speeds dropping too low. I usually work on a tripod, so that's not the concern. Rather, it's subject movement. But it would be nice to see the exact light falling on the subject, rather than an approximation from the modeling lamp (which TBH, I rarely use).

I've seen how much gear some video/motion crews set up for shoots and can appreciate how this could simplify some aspects of this. The reflectors multiply the effective number of light sources in a very compact, relatively inexpensive package. Even if you go two lights for a H&S session, the reflectors will allow adding fill, additional hair/edge accents, background, etc. It makes a small lighting kit a lot more versatile.



Jan 01, 2022 at 11:00 PM
bjhurley
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · CRLS, Dedo Lightstream, and other reflector systems


rscheffler wrote:
I've yet to try continuous lighting and worry about shutter speeds dropping too low. I usually work on a tripod, so that's not the concern. Rather, it's subject movement.


That is a very valid concern. I got my Lighstream kit primarily for one-person video interviews, using a set of small cinema cameras, but I also hoped to use it to use it to film small traditional music ensembles, mainly duos and trios, and to do that I need a more powerful light than the one I have now. My cinema cameras require a lot of light, otherwise the image gets very noisy. Getting a stronger light will require a pretty significant investment if I stay with Dedolight, as their lights aren't cheap. But I think it'll be worth it for consistency, plus even though the idea of a one-light system is appealing, having a second light would be easier. (I do have a Sekonic C800 and can color-match lights from different manufacturers, but if I don't have to it'll save time; the Dedolights are pretty consistent.)

I wanted a bicolor light for the flexibility, but bicolor continous lights always have much less output than dedicated daylight or tungsten lights. To get the equivalent power of a strobe from a continuous light you'd need to spend a lot of money, especially if you want to be able to adjust color temperature.

rscheffler wrote:
But it would be nice to see the exact light falling on the subject, rather than an approximation from the modeling lamp (which TBH, I rarely use).


That's my thinking too, for portraits in particular. In my particular case I wanted to invest in one system that would work for both video and stills rather than buying separate equipment, but the portability and comparatively low cost of a strobe system for photography is still attractive.



Jan 02, 2022 at 05:38 AM





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