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Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions

  
 
tsdevine
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions



But they sell E mount cameras, it would be extremely shortsighted to frustrate its customers like that. Plus I believe Zeiss licensed E mount as Sony opened E mount to 3rd parties. So either Zeiss isn't following it 100%, or something changed slightly with the a1, or it's some wear related issue that seems aggravated on the a1. (Or some yet to be determined cause.)

IndyFab wrote:
Whats interesting is, some with the A1 do not have the issue.

Agree Zeiss & Sony should collaborate to address the issue. Then again Sony also sells lenses, so they may not be inclined to.





Aug 04, 2022 at 09:53 AM
IndyFab
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


tsdevine wrote:
But they sell E mount cameras, it would be extremely shortsighted to frustrate its customers like that. Plus I believe Zeiss licensed E mount as Sony opened E mount to 3rd parties. So either Zeiss isn't following it 100%, or something changed slightly with the a1, or it's some wear related issue that seems aggravated on the a1. (Or some yet to be determined cause.)



What you say makes sense.. I know Zeiss has not put out any new lenses for E in years. I know they have other divisions, but not sure how financial stable they are presently, to admit the issue and have a recall..

I think ChrisMak's comment may be on point
"There is definitely something wrong with the chip used in the Loxia lenses, or with other electronic parts or even with the mechanical-electronic coupling. As I am now sure of, it does not affect all copies, but it appears to affect a good number of copies"




Aug 04, 2022 at 10:22 AM
chiron
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


Gunzorro wrote:
I have a7R4 and the full set of Loxia lenses. No problems experienced and still using original firmware AFAIK.

Loxia lenses work flawlessly (magnification on focusing) on both my a7R2 bodies as well.

I'm curious why Loxia owners would be attracted to use these lenses on Sony A1 body -- it seems that 61MP sensor would be advantage over 50MP sensor for additional detail. Does the AI have wider latitude for exposure (dynamic range)? I can understand if one is only owning one body that does it all, but hard to understand using A1 if high quality Zeiss/CV MF lenses are
...Show more

The A7RIV has very similar dynamic range to the A1 but the A7RIV is a bit better at low ISO (per Bill Claff). However, I would assume that some people own the A1 but not the A7RIV to use the Loxia on.



Aug 04, 2022 at 03:10 PM
chiron
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


lightseker wrote:
Disclosure: This may or may not be relevant to this issue - My A7RIV would randomly enter focus tracking mode with the tracking box moving pretty much all over the screen, even when not in tracking mode. I use the battery grip 95% of the time and, after I power cycled the camera to stop the tracker cycling, I could tighten the retainer screw knob (minimally) which, I believe, improved the contact between the grip and the body and the problem would disappear. So, I researched electrical contact cleaners and I found products called DeoxIT made by a company called
...Show more

I like this hypothesis, as I said above, and it has the virtue of being easily tested by someone who is having the problem. However, in reading about DEOXit, I notice that is also serves as a lubricant that stays on what you put it on. I would wonder about lubricants that are possibly volatile being use near lens glass. Any concern about that from your experience?



Aug 04, 2022 at 03:16 PM
ChrisMak
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


Gunzorro wrote:
I have a7R4 and the full set of Loxia lenses. No problems experienced and still using original firmware AFAIK.

Loxia lenses work flawlessly (magnification on focusing) on both my a7R2 bodies as well.

I'm curious why Loxia owners would be attracted to use these lenses on Sony A1 body -- it seems that 61MP sensor would be advantage over 50MP sensor for additional detail. Does the AI have wider latitude for exposure (dynamic range)? I can understand if one is only owning one body that does it all, but hard to understand using A1 if high quality Zeiss/CV MF lenses are
...Show more

I use the Loxia 25 and 50 on the A1.
I had the A7RII before that and the A7RIV for a while. I sold both after getting the A1. The A1+Loxia 25 is my all time favorite landscape combo by far, I prefer it over the A7RIV combo because of the distinct brilliance and true to life color it produces, while having virtually the same detail. The Loxia lenses give a certain freshness and color separation to the images when used on the A1 that I find addictive.
I also have the 35GM, but still take the Loxias when travelling for their supreme handsome imaging.



Aug 04, 2022 at 03:23 PM
Gunzorro
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


tsdevine wrote:
Wouldn't the logical answer be that it's the body they have? I know if I spent the money on an a1, which I've thought of, I wouldn't have a lot of $$ to spend on other bodies. I know the "backup" camera argument, but if I had the a1, I'd use it as my primary camera. I know you note all this, so not arguing with anything you're saying. I have an a7R, a7R II, and a7r III...but honestly I really only use the a7R III.

It sort of goes against common expectations that an E mount lens is an
...Show more

I agree -- the concern is whether the equipment firmware is "future-proof" regarding lens compatibility. This is particularly concerning where manual focus or manual lenses might come into play. If you can't trust your manual lenses to function properly, what is compelling about buying expensive new bodies, right?



Aug 05, 2022 at 09:06 AM
Gunzorro
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


ChrisMak wrote:
I use the Loxia 25 and 50 on the A1.
I had the A7RII before that and the A7RIV for a while. I sold both after getting the A1. The A1+Loxia 25 is my all time favorite landscape combo by far, I prefer it over the A7RIV combo because of the distinct brilliance and true to life color it produces, while having virtually the same detail. The Loxia lenses give a certain freshness and color separation to the images when used on the A1 that I find addictive.
I also have the 35GM, but still take the Loxias when travelling for
...Show more

Thanks for your experience with the A1. I expect it could be a more attractive upgrade for someone moving from a7R2 or a7R3 than a7R4, but as you say, there might be something of a crisper image quality. It doesn't sound like the path for me on the basis of cost, where I'm more likely to buy a second a7R4 used if the urge strikes me.



Aug 05, 2022 at 09:11 AM
 


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ChrisMak
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


Gunzorro wrote:
Thanks for your experience with the A1. I expect it could be a more attractive upgrade for someone moving from a7R2 or a7R3 than a7R4, but as you say, there might be something of a crisper image quality. It doesn't sound like the path for me on the basis of cost, where I'm more likely to buy a second a7R4 used if the urge strikes me.


The A1 ia also my birding/wildlife body, so it was the obvious choice. The A7RIV is also a great body.



Aug 05, 2022 at 01:03 PM
lightseker
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


Hello Chiron -

I thought about that very thing and you are correct about lubrication, so I test coated the contacts on an old cable and left it in the oven @ 140F for one hour. I could not detect any difference versus room temperature of circa 85F. For application on the photo equipment I used fine brushes, a minimal amount of product, and, as a final safeguard, I carefully went over all contacts with Q-Tips to remove any excess. The cameras and lenses have been exposed to lots of sunshine, salt air, wind and, over 100F temperatures in the trunk of a car without observable ill effects after now close to one year. I checked around the contacts regularly for a few months looking for any evidence of spread of the cleaner or Caig's other products and have found none to date. Note that I do take extra special care to keep things clean and protected. In the 90's I shot a fair bit of motorsports and, I promise you, many racetracks are hot and dusty places that can leave you and your gear pretty filthy! You really do need to clean your gear each night.

I can feel the difference in how USB or Lightening cables click into place after cleaning and lubricating. I now use these products on a wide range of electrical products that have contact points (that can be reached). We have major corrosion issues here, (duh) and these products cannot remove all forms of said, but, these products really do a fine and quick job of removing most surface contamination I have encountered. I found out recently from a friend that was a Ford technician that FoMoCo uses Caig's products in dealer's service departments. Electrical gremlins are about the least fun you can have when diagnosing and repairing cars. That goes at least double when the problems are intermittent of which many were / are!

Aaron



Aug 05, 2022 at 03:48 PM
chiron
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


lightseker wrote:
Hello Chiron -

I thought about that very thing and you are correct about lubrication, so I test coated the contacts on an old cable and left it in the oven @ 140F for one hour. I could not detect any difference versus room temperature of circa 85F. For application on the photo equipment I used fine brushes, a minimal amount of product, and, as a final safeguard, I carefully went over all contacts with Q-Tips to remove any excess. The cameras and lenses have been exposed to lots of sunshine, salt air, wind and, over 100F temperatures in the trunk
...Show more

I'm going to get some to try on other non-lens items first. But also, I think lenses and camera bodies contain various lubricants. The only issue is whether they are volatile. And of course, using a minimum amount is also a good practice.



Aug 05, 2022 at 09:04 PM
Daran
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


chiron wrote:
Two points:

1. This problem appears to be limited to the A1. There were no reports I know of prior to the introduction of the A1. The problem seems to be something that the A1 is doing that other camera bodes do not do.

2. For some users the problem is intermittent. For some users the problem is constant. For some users the problem is non-existent.

3. The problem does not seem confined to the age of the lens. There is no reason to think that Zeiss has introduced any variability into the manufacture of the Loxia lenses.

4. A software bug that is
...Show more
Weird. I've done tons of HW and SW troubleshooting and I don't follow your reasoning at all. I have observed both your #2 and #3 with issues caused by hardware failure. Not saying it is HW, just saying that your logic seems faulty.



Aug 06, 2022 at 07:04 AM
Gunzorro
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


ChrisMak wrote:
The A1 ia also my birding/wildlife body, so it was the obvious choice. The A7RIV is also a great body.


Thank you for the reminder -- yes, the A1 would be terrific if one shoots wildlife and/or sports with high speed and IQ, along with general high quality imaging. Since I don't shoot any action to speak of, the A7R4 is the better choice for my needs.



Aug 06, 2022 at 07:55 AM
j4nu
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


Gunzorro wrote:
Thank you for the reminder -- yes, the A1 would be terrific if one shoots wildlife and/or sports with high speed and IQ, along with general high quality imaging. Since I don't shoot any action to speak of, the A7R4 is the better choice for my needs.


The other notable difference is that current gen bodies are a lot more responsive. It's kinda hard to describe, but once you try it it's hard to go back ...
I miss the battery life of the previous gen though.



Aug 06, 2022 at 08:10 AM
chiron
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions


Daran wrote:
Weird. I've done tons of HW and SW troubleshooting and I don't follow your reasoning at all. I have observed both your #2 and #3 with issues caused by hardware failure. Not saying it is HW, just saying that your logic seems faulty.


Yes, a failing piece of hardware can cause an intermittent problem. I think we have all seen that many times. The pattern here is that there is a failure that is widespread but not universal, that is often intermittent, and that is not confined to product of a certain manufacturing age range. Also, it occurs with only one camera body.

It seems unlikely that all the people who have this problem with only one camera body all have a failing or intermittently failing hardware part that does not affect the usage and function of the lens with other bodies. If the part is functioning normally (not failing) but incompatible, then I would expect the problem to be more widespread. So I think other causes are more likely. But of course, neither of us knows at this point.



Aug 06, 2022 at 08:28 AM
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