Archive 2021 · Leica quality control needs improvement

budjames
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica quality control needs improvement

I satisfied a lifelong goal to shoot with Leica with the purchase of my first Leica, the M10, in November 2017. With the camera, I purchased the Summicon 35mm, Summilux 50mm and APO Summicron 75mm lenses.

I immediately had issues trying to get consistently sharp images with the 35 and 50. At first, I thought it was just me having to relearn how to manually focus, the problems persisted. I look the camera and three lenses to the Leica service center in mid-December. The technician checked out my gear and told me that the 35 and 50 were terribly out of calibration. The camera and 75 tested to be within spec. I left the 35 and 50 with them for adjustment. Because of the coming Christmas holiday shut down, I didn't get my new lenses back until mid-January. I spent over $16k for new gear and I couldn't enjoy if over the holiday season.

Since then, I purchased a second M10 body, had my original M10 factory-converted to an M10-P, and purchased the Summilux 35, Super Elmar 18, APO Summicron 50mm, APO Summicron 90mm and APO Summicron 35mm.

The already once repaired Summicron 50mm focusing and aperture rings because loose so I had to send this to Leica to get fixed. The APO Summicron 50 came loose in the same way after about 6 months of casual use and had to be sent into Leica.

Earlier this year, I purchased the M10-R. It's my favorite so far, but I started noticing a lot of hot pixels in underexposed areas with images shot with an ISO greater than 2500. I had the send the camera to Leica and they replaced the sensor and shutter. Fortunately, it only took about a week for them to affect the repairs.

Prior to owning Leica, I shot Canon film and then digital pro SLRs fir 20+ years, then switched to Fuji-X gear for about 4 years before buying my first Leica. With hundreds of thousands of images shot with Canon and Fuji-X, I never had any of that gear fail me or require servicing of any type. I was expecting this from Leica, but that has not been the case.

I love Leica and I sold off my Fuji-X kit 4 years ago to finance the acquisition of Leica lenses, so I'm 100% committed to Leica now. However, the quality control has been very disappointing. This is especially painful since I'm not a professional and my gear is loving cared for. I now only shoot about 24,000 images per year.

If Leica is listening, they should really focus on their quality control.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography.

Dec 16, 2021 at 06:38 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica quality control needs improvement

budjames wrote:
I satisfied a lifelong goal to shoot with Leica with the purchase of my first Leica, the M10, in November 2017. With the camera, I purchased the Summicon 35mm, Summilux 50mm and APO Summicron 75mm lenses.

I immediately had issues trying to get consistently sharp images with the 35 and 50. At first, I thought it was just me having to relearn how to manually focus, the problems persisted. I look the camera and three lenses to the Leica service center in mid-December. The technician checked out my gear and told me that the 35 and 50 were terribly out...Show more →

Although I certainly sympathize with the problems you have had, I would like to add four thoughts:

1) A rangefinder system is always going to need far greater calibration between lenses and the camera than a DSLR or mirrorless system. Having to calibrate lenses is something you have to put up with from time to time if you want to use a rangefinder. If I counted right you have had 8 lenses and two of them needed calibration with the rangefinder. That is definitely on the high side, but is still a small number of lenses so within what could be expected. I think you are noting that rangefinder cameras have this issue more but I don't think it is a Leica issue but rather a rangefinder issue.

2) The sensor on your M10R needed to be replaced and Leica handled this quickly and solved the problem well. I think how Leica responded here is commendable. All companies have sensors with too many hot pixels from time to time. Your experience suggests that Leica handled this very well. Leica in the early days had more issues with sensors than other cameras (problem with the M9 are a salient example), but that appears to mostly be in the past.,

3) You report loose focus rings on two lenses. I have never had any of these issues, and again even among your lenses it is just two examples. I have not heard this is a particular problem with Leica lenses whereas it was (or rather lens wobble) with Zeiss ZM lenses that were made by Cosina. I think this was likely bad luck and at least the fix is easy.

4) What you don't note is the optical quality of Leica lenses. One thing that I have noticed and Fred has commented on is how wonderfully centered Leica lenses are and this is a frequent problem with other brands. The general lack of centering issues for me makes it easy to put up with the inherent calibration issues of a rangefinder and personally would let me put up with a loose focus ring or two that needed to be sent in to get fixed. I think on the optical side Leica has excellent quality control, on the physical side they are about average (which isn't that bad considering for M lenses anyway the challenges of their small size), and no doubt have way more calibration issues because of the use of the rangefinder. I don't find that to be too bad overall, but YMMV.

Dec 16, 2021 at 10:45 AM

panos.v
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica quality control needs improvement

Sounds like you really had some bad luck getting all these dud bits of kit. I'd send that letter to Leica instead of FM, I doubt Leica is trawling FM for posts like this. Given how much stuff you spent on Leica gear (I assume that was all bought new, right?) they should do something for you, I mean the dealer to begin with should have a thing or two to say about it.

Dec 16, 2021 at 12:22 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica quality control needs improvement

You might be surprised who reads these posts. I have posted comments on the Canon board here that came back to me via Canon staff I know... That said, with everyone on FB now, maybe they don't bother monitoring these old school forums.

Bud: thanks for sharing! Unfortunately what you posted IMO is nothing new. I will say though that you were very fortunate to get your M10-R back in a week. I've owned Leica equipment going on 10 years now and have had my fair share of service experiences, both with Leica USA and in Germany. My main complaint with Leica USA has been very long turnaround times compared to my experience with Canon. One-two months for lenses and two-four weeks for cameras, if parts are in stock. The last time I had my M240 serviced due to shutter failure (they also had to replace the sensor because of crud welded onto it they couldn't get off - to boot, they wouldn't service the shutter without the sensor replacement), I was told they were trying to reduce camera service times. From what you wrote, it sounds like that may now be a reality.

As a Canon user, I can't say I've escaped unscathed either. My worst experiences were around the 1DIII camera which had a problem with AF under certain conditions. I had two of those cameras (actually still have them as paper weights) and they were in for servicing more often than anything else I had prior or since, from any brand. One was probably serviced 4-5 times including sensor replacement due to a 1-pixel wide line that ran across the short side of the image. That said, ever since Canon implemented paid CPS membership tiers, my service experience with them has been great. They could take as long as they want, for all I care, because of the excellent loaner availability.

I'd probably not want to know how much Leica would charge for such an "LPS" service tier (I think they offer/ed it for the S series). Some years ago when I was traveling in Germany and needed servicing, Leica there had an express service option, at extra cost, for something like 2-3 day turnaround, which I took advantage of due to my limited time there. Not sure if they still offer this.

As for Leica quality control... it seems to happen every so often. For example, the M240 strap lug recall. The M10 ISO dial problem. S lens AF motor failures. M9 sensor delamination problem mentioned by Steve. M8 excessive sensor IR sensitivity, M8 LCD "coffee stain"... Biggest QA problem I experienced was receiving a 28 Cron v2 that when the rangefinder said focus was good, actual focus was meters in front of the intended point. Production date on the box was prior to official announcement, so it was an early production lens. Based on some of the above examples, it might not be a good idea to be an early adopter.

To be fair to Leica, they have been much more generous providing goodwill/warranty service when either the equipment was purchased second hand and/or was already well outside the warranty period.

I generally agree that to shoot Leica professionally and as your only system, would require redundancy to cover the possibility of equipment away for servicing. But even if a camera went down and servicing only took days, or a loaner was available the next day, you'd still need a backup on-hand for immediate use.

Dec 16, 2021 at 10:19 PM

budjames
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica quality control needs improvement

Thank you all for the feedback and comments.

Unusable lenses fresh out of the box is a factory QC issue. Having to send 5 items back to Leica for warranty repairs is still extreme since in 25 years of using Canon and 5 years of using Fuji I had zero repairs or issues.

That said, I love shooting Leica and the resulting image quality. I’m not going back to any other brand. Leica for life!

BTW, I also own a Leica SL2, 3 Leica zooms and the SL Summicron 35mm. The SL2 is great for shooting with my Noctilux M 50mm f0.95. I can finally reliably focus this lens.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Dec 17, 2021 at 01:39 PM


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