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New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022

  
 
Edward Teller
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p.29 #1 · p.29 #1 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022









































Feb 06, 2022 at 03:26 PM
Edward Teller
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p.29 #2 · p.29 #2 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


When I bought the 50/1 Nokton, it was with the thought of comparing it to the Noctilux and then selling off whichever one I liked the most, for rendering more than anything else, cost not considered, and keeping the Summilux regardless.
After all this, I still can't decide, not as easy as I was anticipating.



Feb 06, 2022 at 03:44 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.29 #3 · p.29 #3 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Edward Teller wrote:
When I bought the 50/1 Nokton, it was with the thought of comparing it to the Noctilux and then selling off whichever one I liked the most, for rendering more than anything else, cost not considered, and keeping the Summilux regardless.
After all this, I still can't decide, not as easy as I was anticipating.


Personally, I prefer the images from the Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton compared to the Leica 50/1 Noctilux in terms of resolution, contrast and rendering. Also, it's a smaller/lighter lens and closer to the 50mm FL.
Although the Leica produces images with a vintage charm, my vote goes to keeping the Voigt if you can have only have one f/1 lens.
If you throw the Leica 50/0.95 in the mix and money/size is not a consideration, I believe this could be a harder choice since you would be comparing two modern designs with FLE.



Feb 06, 2022 at 04:00 PM
Edward Teller
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p.29 #4 · p.29 #4 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


That's what I am struggling with. The Nokton is clearly better in terms of resolution and contrast; I'm just having a harder time with regard to rendering, which is a lot less objective. Trying to filter out psychological issues relating to "It's a Leica" and it costs 3 times as much so "should be" better. I've really enjoyed the Noctilux, which probably factors into it as well. One clear thing I prefer about the Nokton is that I have always found the focus ring on the Noctilux to be too narrow and too close to the body, so I never find it immediately when searching for it. The Nokton is a joy to use in terms of ergos, for me at least.


Feb 06, 2022 at 04:09 PM
CheshireCat
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p.29 #5 · p.29 #5 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Edward Teller wrote:
When I bought the 50/1 Nokton, it was with the thought of comparing it to the Noctilux and then selling off whichever one I liked the most, for rendering more than anything else, cost not considered, and keeping the Summilux regardless.
After all this, I still can't decide, not as easy as I was anticipating.


Based on your comparison, it seems the Nokton f/1 is the new and improved Noctilux f/1 (it only took 45 years).
I am more and more convinced that the bad shots we saw posted on other forums are due to QC issues.
I also noticed you are not posting 100% crops of the NX. We know it's not all about resolution, but still, the question is:

What is keeping you from selling the NX ?

P.S. Sorry for playing devil's advocate, but someone has to ;-)
P.P.S. You answered while I was writing this post.



Feb 06, 2022 at 04:10 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.29 #6 · p.29 #6 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Edward Teller wrote:
That's what I am struggling with. The Nokton is clearly better in terms of resolution and contrast; I'm just having a harder time with regard to rendering, which is a lot less objective. Trying to filter out psychological issues relating to "It's a Leica" and it costs 3 times as much so "should be" better. I've really enjoyed the Noctilux, which probably factors into it as well. One clear thing I prefer about the Nokton is that I have always found the focus ring on the Noctilux to be too narrow and too close to the body, so I
...Show more

I the images at f/1 above, I think the focus plane of the Nokton is closer to the camera than that of the Noctilux.



Feb 06, 2022 at 04:48 PM
Edward Teller
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p.29 #7 · p.29 #7 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


AcuteShadows wrote:
I the images at f/1 above, I think the focus plane of the Nokton is closer to the camera than that of the Noctilux.


I'm sure you are correct. It was about minus 8 or 10 degrees F at this point and I was trying to select a focus point on the touchscreen to use for magnified focus peaking, with gloves on, so I was having a hard time getting it in exactly the same spot after I swapped the lenses. So, maybe just use these two shots for overall sharpness, but not in the exact same location. The shots focused more or less a flat plane, like the logo on the Toyota, it's not as obvious.



Feb 06, 2022 at 05:18 PM
Edward Teller
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p.29 #8 · p.29 #8 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


CheshireCat wrote:
Based on your comparison, it seems the Nokton f/1 is the new and improved Noctilux f/1 (it only took 45 years).
I am more and more convinced that the bad shots we saw posted on other forums are due to QC issues.
I also noticed you are not posting 100% crops of the NX. We know it's not all about resolution, but still, the question is:

What is keeping you from selling the NX ?

P.S. Sorry for playing devil's advocate, but someone has to ;-)
P.P.S. You answered while I was writing this post.


Keeping me from already selling the NX? Inertia.

Now that you bring up the bad shots, and comments related to those earlier....after I've been looking at everything I've gotten from the Nokton, compared to the Noctilux, I've been wondering why some earlier were saying they had to take a "hard pass" on the Nokton. It's not perfect, but I'm having a difficult time trying to see why it's so bad it requires a hard pass, and not just a regular pass. Open to the suggestion that I'm not as bothered by the flaws as some, but I'm thinking, perhaps incorrectly, it's a really nice lens for anyone in the market for a 50/1, and something of a bargain at that.



Feb 06, 2022 at 05:27 PM
Edward Teller
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p.29 #9 · p.29 #9 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Using a different approach, this series is done from .DNG files made with the Noctilux 50/1 code on in camera for both the 50/1 lenses, and the 50 Summilux code on for that one, opened in LR, Auto Tone in LR, and sharpened in PS. The Auto Tone made them too yellow, which I should have corrected, but was halfway through them before I decided that.


































This might be it for a while, but still welcoming advice.



Feb 06, 2022 at 05:42 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.29 #10 · p.29 #10 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Edward Teller wrote:
I'm sure you are correct. It was about minus 8 or 10 degrees F at this point and I was trying to select a focus point on the touchscreen to use for magnified focus peaking, with gloves on, so I was having a hard time getting it in exactly the same spot after I swapped the lenses. So, maybe just use these two shots for overall sharpness, but not in the exact same location. The shots focused more or less a flat plane, like the logo on the Toyota, it's not as obvious.


My main concern is that bokeh may look different at different distances from the focal plane.



Feb 06, 2022 at 06:01 PM
 


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Edward Teller
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p.29 #11 · p.29 #11 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


AcuteShadows wrote:
My main concern is that bokeh may look different at different distances from the focal plane.



Point taken. Everything I have posted should be taken with a grain of salt regarding one thing or the other, things which I think people can see the potential flaws in, here and there. Not pretending I'm sending these to the National Bureau of Standards. More of an "it is what it is" kind of thing. I would have done all this for myself anyway, just to figure out what lens to keep and what to sell. Though I've even failed at that, so far, though I'm leaning



Feb 06, 2022 at 06:16 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.29 #12 · p.29 #12 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Edward Teller wrote:
Point taken. Everything I have posted should be taken with a grain of salt regarding one thing or the other, things which I think people can see the potential flaws in, here and there. Not pretending I'm sending these to the National Bureau of Standards. More of an "it is what it is" kind of thing. I would have done all this for myself anyway, just to figure out what lens to keep and what to sell. Though I've even failed at that, so far, though I'm leaning


It's great to have these images, thank you for posting them. There also is no need for perfection. What may occur, however, is that discussions may evolve around perceived differences that may have nothing to do with the lens, but are a result of circumstances. This is more common in discussions around color reprodution, as lighting changes are quite common, but it may happen with everything.



Feb 06, 2022 at 06:33 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.29 #13 · p.29 #13 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Edward,
The Leica 50/1 has that dreamy look (due to high SA) so that may contribuite to what's emotional about the images it produces. The rendering is far from perfect but you may like that character as well.

It may not be important to you but the F1 Nokton is also better corrected for distortion. If you are not set on F1, the CV 50/1.2 Nokton could be a great choice as well.



Feb 06, 2022 at 06:43 PM
Edward Teller
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p.29 #14 · p.29 #14 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Fred Miranda wrote:
Edward,
The Leica 50/1 has that dreamy look (due to high SA) so that may contribuite to what's emotional about the images it produces. The rendering is far from perfect but you may like that character as well.

It may not be important to you but the F1 Nokton is also better corrected for distortion. If you are not set on F1, the CV 50/1.2 Nokton could be a great choice as well.


Thanks. Without going too far into why, that helps. There are some aberrations and distortions I'm probably too comfortable with, possibly due to what I'm "used to". Like barrel distortion on an RX1, or the distortion in the Zeiss Distagon 28/2.
What kind of photographs do you want to take, is I guess what it comes down to.



Feb 06, 2022 at 07:23 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.29 #15 · p.29 #15 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


genji wrote:
Steve, please tell me you’re kidding. So CV should put a sticker on the box saying: “WARNING! For best results some (many?) images may need to be cropped to a 4x3 or a 4x5 aspect ratio”?


I wasn't kidding, but I wasn't saying that having to crop is optimal either. I often crop Leica M shots to 4 X 3 or 4 X 5, but that is just me, and I did wonder how much of the problems we see using it would still be evident when cropped like that. Of course it is far better for a lens to not need to cropped like that, but what happens when you do is still an interesting question to me.



Feb 06, 2022 at 07:54 PM
genji
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p.29 #16 · p.29 #16 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Steve Spencer wrote:
I wasn't kidding, but I wasn't saying that having to crop is optimal either. I often crop Leica M shots to 4 X 3 or 4 X 5, but that is just me, and I did wonder how much of the problems we see using it would still be evident when cropped like that. Of course it is far better for a lens to not need to cropped like that, but what happens when you do is still an interesting question to me.


Fair enough. I have a strong antipathy to 4x3 or 4x5, which I regard as "boxy" (whereas 3:2 is the epitome of elegance), so that coloured my response. My hardline attitude against the Nokton 50/1 has softened to a degree since it's become clear that the Noctilux 50/1 also suffers from reverse field curvature. I wouldn't use a Nokton 50/1 even if one was given to me but I no longer regard it as the embodiment of evil.



Feb 06, 2022 at 08:05 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.29 #17 · p.29 #17 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


This is a great thread, and thanks @Edward Teller for all the test images. I like LarsHP's idea of trying a PCX (on either Noctilux or Nokton), and I would be curious to fool around with a couple diffusion filters on the CV 50/1 as well. Lots of strong options and differentiation now for M 50's across eras and makers. Still want to see more about the Syoptic 50/1.1. Plus, 50 Lux and Noct .95 are older designs now. Wonder if we'll get refreshes of those.


Feb 06, 2022 at 08:09 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.29 #18 · p.29 #18 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


nehemiahphoto wrote:
This is a great thread, and thanks @Edward Teller@ for all the test images. I like LarsHP's idea of trying a PCX (on either Noctilux or Nokton), and I would be curious to fool around with a couple diffusion filters on the CV 50/1 as well. Lots of strong options and differentiation now for M 50's across eras and makers. Still want to see more about the Syoptic 50/1.1. Plus, 50 Lux and Noct .95 are older designs now. Wonder if we'll get refreshes of those.


I checked and neither OptoSigma nor Eksma make a ~60mm PCX front lens, so that may be out of the question.

If Voigtlander designs a Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton for the 'E-mount' and that lens is used on a Kolari modded Sony, the field curvature would flatten considerably, probably to a point where the corners are actually out of focus when a subject is focused at mid-distance.



Feb 06, 2022 at 08:16 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.29 #19 · p.29 #19 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Fred Miranda wrote:
I checked and neither OptoSigma nor Eksma make a ~60mm PCX front lens, so that may be out of the question.

If Voigtlander designs a Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton for the 'E-mount' and that lens is used on a Kolari modded Sony, the field curvature would flatten considerably, probably to a point where the corners are actually out of focus when a subject is focused at mid-distance.


I can't recall, but is it plano-convex? If so, this? You've probably already looked though.

https://www.optosigma.com/us_en/optics/lenses/spherical-lenses/plano-convex-spherical-lenses/spherical-lens-bk7-plano-convex-visible-coated-400-700nm-SLB-P-M.html

I know Derek has a custom cut PCX filter for his G28 by another member, can't recall, but its super slick and clean, cut down on size. There's always using a slight size up or down with step up rings.

If they release an e-mount, the MFD would probably be better as well, but I expect the size to be larger.



Feb 06, 2022 at 08:42 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.29 #20 · p.29 #20 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


nehemiahphoto wrote:
I can't recall, but is it plano-convex? If so, this? You've probably already looked though.

https://www.optosigma.com/us_en/optics/lenses/spherical-lenses/plano-convex-spherical-lenses/spherical-lens-bk7-plano-convex-visible-coated-400-700nm-SLB-P-M.html

I know Derek has a custom cut PCX filter for his G28 by another member, can't recall, but its super slick and clean, cut down on size. There's always using a slight size up or down with step up rings.

If they release an e-mount, the MFD would probably be better as well, but I expect the size to be larger.


Sorry I was not clear. They don't seem to have a 60mm+ diameter with the specs we use for other lenses (like the CV 35/1.7, 50/1.5 Nokton) which is labeled 5000PM or 5m PCX



Feb 06, 2022 at 08:55 PM
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