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New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

nhsonyshooter
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

With the release of the 70-200GM II was wondering if there is any chance we see updates to the 1.4x and 2x teleconverters?
They both were released in 2016 I think, with the first GM 70-200. Just thinking Sony has learned alot since then. There has to be a way they could improve performance right? I had multiples of both. I found the 1.4 very good but I never had any luck with the 2X ones I had. Just wondering what others thoughts are.

Nov 04, 2021 at 09:23 PM

lattesweden
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

If they could make a new 1.4x that don't vignette so bad with the 100-400 GM that would be nice.

Nov 04, 2021 at 09:27 PM

onthebeam
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

I’ve been using teleconverters for 35 years and have always had great success with 1.4X but can always tell the image quality loss with 2X.

Nikon, Canon and now Sony. I know the Sony 2X has its fans. Although I’ve shot with various generations of 1.4X have not tried the Sony 2X.

Another big downside with 2X is the loss of 2 f stops of light vs. just one with 1.4.

Nov 04, 2021 at 10:15 PM

SoundHound
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

It’s not in the TC where the optical compromises occur. they are, relatively simple optical devices. It’s the fundamental IQ of the lens to which they are attached. That’s why TCs are most successful with fast, big, expensive prime teles and, conversely, less so with slower zooms.

Although standards vary as to the optical results with various lens/TC combos I too have had poor results with 2X TCs on most any lens Except the Sony 400GM. The 400GM is my first and only lens to support a 2x TC to my standards.

Nov 05, 2021 at 09:21 AM

tschopp
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

It’s hard to say if the current TC design left room for improvement. But it is important to consider what you are asking the lens to do. A 1.4 TC effectively doubles the MP the lens is trying to resolve, and a 2x TC is 4x the MP. So this was more useful when sensor MP was lower. If you take a 12MP sensor and add a 2x TC the lens has to deal with a 48MP equivalent resolution. But now days if you slap this on an A1 the lens has to deal with the equivalent of a 200MP sensor. So if you think about what lens you might want to put on a 200MP sensor that answers the question about what lens might work OK with a 2x TC. Of the lenses that can take a TC, the 400GM is the most obvious choice. Then maybe the 600 GM. All the rest are zooms and you might want to limit to 100MP,so the 1.4 TC. Before Sony works on a new TC they might want to do a 300mm prime.

Nov 05, 2021 at 11:20 AM

nhsonyshooter
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

tschopp wrote:
It’s hard to say if the current TC design left room for improvement. But it is important to consider what you are asking the lens to do. A 1.4 TC effectively doubles the MP the lens is trying to resolve, and a 2x TC is 4x the MP. So this was more useful when sensor MP was lower. If you take a 12MP sensor and add a 2x TC the lens has to deal with a 48MP equivalent resolution. But now days if you slap this on an A1 the lens has to deal with the equivalent of a 200MP...Show more →

Yeah, I get that I guess I just figured the machining of glass and the quality of glass has gotten so much better since 2016 it seems odd to not update them. But maybe it's just splitting hairs.

Nov 05, 2021 at 02:34 PM

MARKFER
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

I really doubt it. Teleconverters are frosting. Lost of cake to worry about.

Nov 05, 2021 at 02:45 PM

onthebeam
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

Canon has upgraded their teleconverters over the years to a version "II" and then a "III." So wouldn't surprise me if Sony did something similar. I've had both the I and II versions. Wonder if there are any detailed tests out there showing if the upgrades improved the optics.

Nov 05, 2021 at 03:22 PM

149113
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

For me to even consider using the 2x on the 600GM a few things need to be present. No atmospheric haze anywhere, the light has to be behind me at a decent angle and there can be no clouds anywhere blocking or filtering light out. Any of those things not in my favor and I pass on the 2x. I see so many shots where people are trying to push the distance with the 2x where the conditions are just not there

Back to the original topic, I think it's gonna be a while before we see any TC upgrades. Minolta did to allow for SSM but we already have everything in the current Sony offering. I would like to see Sony come out with a 180/200-400mm f4 with a built in and optimized for the lens 1.4x. Yes, it will command 5 figures but I think there's a market for it

Nov 05, 2021 at 09:45 PM

freaklikeme
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

I want to see a modern take on a 1.7x. That would be would be a one-and-done TC for me.

Nov 05, 2021 at 10:20 PM

tschopp
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

nhsonyshooter wrote:
Yeah, I get that I guess I just figured the machining of glass and the quality of glass has gotten so much better since 2016 it seems odd to not update them. But maybe it's just splitting hairs.

Some testing with an a7iii w/ 1.4TC vs an a1 should be able to tell if there is room for improvement. I can certainly see the 135GM is my sharpest lens even with a 24 MP sensor.

Sony certainly seems to have gotten some good lens design mojo recently. I’m hoping for a 24-70 GM ii, but probably can’t afford it. I also wonder if there is room for improvement with the 100-400 or 200-600.

Nov 06, 2021 at 07:04 PM

jhapeman
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

onthebeam wrote:
Canon has upgraded their teleconverters over the years to a version "II" and then a "III." So wouldn't surprise me if Sony did something similar. I've had both the I and II versions. Wonder if there are any detailed tests out there showing if the upgrades improved the optics.

When I was shooting with Canon, I started with the original TC's and they were not very good--lots of CA and softness when using them unless you stopped down. The v II were a bit better, but the v III were excellent. The Sony TC's are both excellent, I use them both without stopping down all of the time. I suspect that there's not a lot of juice for Sony to squeeze out of their TC's at this point. That said, if there were I'd be happy to see any improvement, no matter how small!

Nov 06, 2021 at 08:27 PM

jhinkey
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

SoundHound wrote:
It’s not in the TC where the optical compromises occur. they are, relatively simple optical devices. It’s the fundamental IQ of the lens to which they are attached. That’s why TCs are most successful with fast, big, expensive prime teles and, conversely, less so with slower zooms.

Although standards vary as to the optical results with various lens/TC combos I too have had poor results with 2X TCs on most any lens Except the Sony 400GM. The 400GM is my first and only lens to support a 2x TC to my standards.

But a 1.4x TC usually has to work with multiple lenses and thus cannot be optimized for a specific lens (well maybe it can, but won't work as well with other lenses). There are certainly optical compromises with the fundamental concept of an add-on TC unless it is matched to a specific lens and even then the IQ is likely to be less than if you just designed a lens to be the equivalent focal length/aperture right from the start.

Nov 06, 2021 at 09:42 PM

SoundHound
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

Possibly why TCs work best with super tele’s? They are optimized for same while the optical path is at the narrowest, most benign, angle for optimum results.

Nov 07, 2021 at 03:56 AM

nikon_matt
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

Have you tried the 2x on the 600 gm? I have not been happy with the 2x on the 600 gm. I didn’t get to try the 2x on the 400 gm during my short ownership of it (those two together are just too much $). Any images of the 2x with the 400 gm?

SoundHound wrote:
It’s not in the TC where the optical compromises occur. they are, relatively simple optical devices. It’s the fundamental IQ of the lens to which they are attached. That’s why TCs are most successful with fast, big, expensive prime teles and, conversely, less so with slower zooms.

Although standards vary as to the optical results with various lens/TC combos I too have had poor results with 2X TCs on most any lens Except the Sony 400GM. The 400GM is my first and only lens to support a 2x TC to my standards.

Apr 06, 2022 at 06:20 AM

TimMunsey
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

I find the 2x excellent on my 600mm gm, but have learnt that atmospheric conditions are critical, heat haze hits and this I believe catches people out and gives them a false impression.

Apr 06, 2022 at 06:28 AM

nikon_matt
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

Indeed. Everything has to be perfect. I find it is too rarely workable for me. Canon 600mm is iii with the iii 2x was more consistently workable. Too bad the 600 is iii is overall a dog of a lens, though.

TimMunsey wrote:
I find the 2x excellent on my 600mm gm, but have learnt that atmospheric conditions are critical, heat haze hits and this I believe catches people out and gives them a false impression.

Apr 06, 2022 at 06:30 AM

QuietOC
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

SoundHound wrote:
Possibly why TCs work best with super tele’s? They are optimized for same while the optical path is at the narrowest, most benign, angle for optimum results.

Generic MC7 Kenko teleconverters work pretty well with many SLR lenses. Simple lenses like teleconverters still have alignment issues. In my experience they work best on lenses with low aberrations. The SLR telephoto primes I've tried so far have had fairly high aberrations. I haven't tried any very expensive super teles yet.

Apr 06, 2022 at 06:38 AM

speedmaster20d
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

The Sony TC's work great on the Sony 600 f/4 GM which they were designed to give peak performance, my 2x constantly gives almost unbelievable pixel level sharpness if the user knows what they are doing and don't make gross errors like shooting through heat shimmers... really no comparison with any other 600 f/4 combo I have owned.

I doubt Sony can optimize the TC's for other lenses at the same time, so they optimized it for what matters. There is really no point in putting TC's on the short zoom lenses and make your life difficult when you can get better much results with the bare 200-600 IMO. The 1.4X + 2X cost about 50% the price of a 200-600..... I see folks struggle with those short zooms and TC's in the field coming up with mediocre results, but after borrowing the 200-600 for a couple of hundred frames, they order one in the field

Apr 07, 2022 at 01:50 AM

Alan Parker
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · New Version 2 Sony Teleconverters?

Since the 70-200GMII with 2x TC is sharper than or as sharp as the 100-400GM I'd say that the TCs are not the limiting factor here and don't need to be redesigned

Edited on Apr 07, 2022 at 06:38 AM · View previous versions

Apr 07, 2022 at 02:01 AM

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