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Archive 2021 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Bassat
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Since the R5 and R6 came out, I have been looking for good reason to buy either. I give up. I briefly considered buying a 1DX3 to have the last/lastest EF-mount body. That seems a bit of overkill for me. My digital bodies are EOS 80D and 6DII, and I have no complaints about either. I don't do video - at all. I shoot mostly film these days and need my fast EF lenses for that. If I have to maintain a collection of EF lenses, for EF cameras, what is the point of buying an RF-mount camera? I think I am just too old (64) to bother learning a new trick (MILC). Comments/opinions?

Oct 31, 2021 at 09:35 AM

PicGuy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

DSLRs did not stop being very competent photographic tools just because MILCs came about. I own an R camera but 80-90% of the time I shoot is with the SL2 and 80-90% of the time I use it is with the EF-S 15-85mm lens attached.

Don't feel pressured to buy the latest and greatest of anything. Most of the pressure to do so is from marketing hype generated by manufacturers to make profit.

Oct 31, 2021 at 09:43 AM

brad-man
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

You have Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS). You admittedly have no need to upgrade your cameras and are locked into the EF lens ecosystem due to film , yet the new toys look fun. You'll get over it. Or not...

Oct 31, 2021 at 09:44 AM

bipock
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

I wouldn't call it learning a new trick. The menus are the same, the layout is pretty similar, the EVF is different but you can get used to it. EF lenses work extremely well adapted, so no need to rethink/redo your lens collection.

AF accuracy is a big jump, Eye AF is no joke and very good. The files are a little digital feeling, but take editing very well. Both handle higher ISOs, if that's a concern, very well. The R6 would be less video centric than the R5, but you could ignore that just like you do on your current bodies.

There's a lot of positives that go with the mirrorless line and few drawbacks. But I won't ever shame someone from being a DSLR person - that 1DxIII is no slouch even compared to the mirrorless cameras.

Oct 31, 2021 at 09:46 AM

Ray Swindle
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

OK, sounds like you are happy, so stay an old dog.

However, I am much older than you as are many photography friends and we have, or we are making the move to mirrorless. I didn't stay with typewriters when Apple came out with the Apple IIe. I like change. Change, at my age keeps me out of the recliner and keeps the space between my ears alive.

The goal is to achieve the photographic results YOU want, with the equipment you want to use. As long as you can keep that equipment going, you will be fine; and figuring out how to keep that equipment going will keep that space between your ears thinking too!

BTW, me and my friends, even though we are older than you, we ain't dogs, maybe a coyote or two, but no old dogs here!

Oct 31, 2021 at 09:47 AM

Bassat
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Thanks for the comments so far. After I posted this, I read an article about upgrading/changing systems. The primary question it raised for me was, "Why are you using your current system?" Well, that settled it for me. When I wanted to switch to AF cameras about 20 years ago, I did my homework. I found Canon's EF lenses to be the best collection of high-quality lenses available, anywhere. So I bought a Canon camera (500D). I believe that to still be true, and some $$$$$ worth of glass later not to mention bodies, I am tied to the EF system - and that is OK.
Brad-man, I've had GAS all my life. This is the first time I've successfully fought it off!
Ray, I'm curious. How old are you? I take 'much older' to be 20-30 years. I am 64. If you are still shooting in your 80s/90s, I may need to consider that switch to mirrorless when the last of my EF bodies dies in 20 years or so. BTW, my last Yashica all manual film bodies from the 70s lasted until 2009

Oct 31, 2021 at 10:21 AM

robert_in_ca
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Bassat wrote:
Thanks for the comments so far. After I posted this, I read an article about upgrading/changing systems. The primary question it raised for me was, "Why are you using your current system?" Well, that settled it for me. When I wanted to switch to AF cameras about 20 years ago, I did my homework. I found Canon's EF lenses to be the best collection of high-quality lenses available, anywhere. So I bought a Canon camera (500D). I believe that to still be true, and some $$$$$ worth of glass later not to mention bodies, I am tied to the EF...Show more →

Just throwing it out to you. Having had some EF lenses I used with the EF to RF adaptor on the R (now I own an R5) - the AF speed and ability to lock onto a subject in lower light blows away any Canon DSLR body. You might want to consider renting an R6 or R5 with the adaptor to use with your lenses and give it a try.

Oct 31, 2021 at 10:44 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Bassat wrote:
Since the R5 and R6 came out, I have been looking for good reason to buy either. I give up. I briefly considered buying a 1DX3 to have the last/lastest EF-mount body. That seems a bit of overkill for me. My digital bodies are EOS 80D and 6DII, and I have no complaints about either. I don't do video - at all. I shoot mostly film these days and need my fast EF lenses for that. If I have to maintain a collection of EF lenses, for EF cameras, what is the point of buying an RF-mount camera? I think...Show more →

While I think that. mirrorless is going to be the better option going forward, and for a whole bunch of reasons, there are going to be some folks who don't need to make that move right away and others who won't need to make it at all.

I'm in the former situation. If I were buying a Canon full frame system (body and lenses) today, it would undoubtedly be based on the R system and RF lenses. However, I have an excellent DSLR Canon system that currently works very well. This does not mean that I will not move to a mirrorless* Canon system at some point — it just means that there's no need for me to hurry.

You seem to be in the latter situation — and an unusual situation it is. I sounds like you have some fine DSLRs and you "mostly shoot film" anyway. So why would you switch out the older cameras that you use for the minority of your photography?

Two final points. Your particular situation (already own and like DSLR systems and mostly shoot film) are quite unusual, so your orientation to this issue is not likely to be the same as that of many other photographers. Second, I don't see that age has much to do with this at all.

Dan

*I've actually used "mirrorless" digital cameras for decades and I used "mirrorless" film cameras decades before that! And... I've been doing half of my photography using a mirrorless digital system from another manufacturer for about a decade.

Oct 31, 2021 at 10:46 AM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Rent, borrow, or try the R6. Two things I like more about mirrorless are the silent shutter and the EVF showing you instantly how changing f-stop, ss, ISO affects exposure.

As for film, I see only disadvantages, and no advantages. IMO

Oct 31, 2021 at 11:00 AM

Alan Kefauver
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

I definitely have GAS.
I'm 74 and just upgraded from 5D4, 7D2, EF 100-400, 24-105, 70-200, 16-35 and more to an R5 and all RF (same range) lenses.
Couldn't be happier.
Once you have eye AF and 45mps (and other stuff), you can't go back. And the weight reduction on my arthritis is great.

ps GAS may be syndrome, but my friends call me the "gear slut."

Oct 31, 2021 at 12:02 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Alan Kefauver wrote:
I definitely have GAS.
I'm 74 and just upgraded from 5D4, 7D2, EF 100-400, 24-105, 70-200, 16-35 and more to an R5 and all RF (same range) lenses.
Couldn't be happier.
Once you have eye AF and 45mps (and other stuff), you can't go back. And the weight reduction on my arthritis is great.

ps GAS may be syndrome, but my friends call me the "gear slut."

Me too

I'm 74 and Canon has trained me to have GAS with all the upgrades since the 10D. But having GAS, I know that getting a new lens mount means I'll go down the road of swapping out my lenses as well as bodies. Yes I have GAS but I'm also cheap.

So far cheap is winning.

But also: I have an M6II and find the lens adapter does add hassle. I have both 80D and 90D which I really like; so far R has no equivalent and RF lenses are not compatible. So far I don't find the RF equivalents to the 100-400 appealing. Just because the camera can AF at f11 doesn't mean all the lenses have to be slow. I currently have a 5D4 with a 30 MP sensor. The original R would be redundant. I didn't need the MP of a 5DS and don't need the 45 of an R5. But I don't want to step back to the 20 MP of an R6. I do a fair amount of wildlife and dog show photography and I've never had any issue getting animal eyes in focus. I can't afford to have the playmates pose for me so human eyes have never been an issue either.

Still focus peaking and through the viewfinder focus bracketing/stacking are nice. Perhaps one day the new mirrorless features will be compelling enough to upgrade. Right now we both have good working gear that yield amazing photographs. For now, I'd rather put the GAS money into going somewhere.

Oct 31, 2021 at 12:41 PM

dallvr
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Of course you should do just what you want to do with respect to your photography equipment. No need to change just because others have done so. But age really isn't a factor. I was older than you when I switched to mirrorless, and do appreciate both the new features that mirrorless offers as well as the reduced weight of the bodies, and some of the lenses.

Oct 31, 2021 at 01:06 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

I moved partially to mirrorless for the following advantages over my 7D2 and 5D4:

- IBIS
- Eye AF is wonderfully freeing in being able to just let the camera follow the subject I set, and I just worry about the scene I am capturing
- Working (and pretty darn well too) AF at apertures beyond f8 (for 1.4x and 2x use on slower lenses)
- 20fps in ES
- Silent shutter
- Focus peaking in the VF for manual focus (macros, etc)
- Able to view images and menu items in bright daylight in the VF and cull or zoom around, etc
- Be able to use RF lenses once they come out with something that there is no EF equivalent, and conversely I can use some very good EFS lenses on my FF now.

Any time I don't need all of this, and I could use more resolution, the 5D4 comes out of the bag. It is just as capable, or more so, to produce great IQ images.

Oct 31, 2021 at 01:31 PM

Bassat
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

robert_in_ca wrote:
Just throwing it out to you. Having had some EF lenses I used with the EF to RF adaptor on the R (now I own an R5) - the AF speed and ability to lock onto a subject in lower light blows away any Canon DSLR body. You might want to consider renting an R6 or R5 with the adaptor to use with your lenses and give it a try.

I had not considered renting, as I've never done that before. I did think of trying the original R with an adapter, but it is DIGIC 8, not DIGIC X, so I don't believe the AF would perform as well as the R5/R6.

Oct 31, 2021 at 03:48 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Photographers having GAS are of a great benefit to the photography community.

They provide used gear that is often in excellent condition for others to buy at reduced prices.

Oct 31, 2021 at 03:49 PM

Mike_5D
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Imagemaster wrote:
Photographers having GAS are of a great benefit to the photography community.

They provide used gear that is often in excellent condition for others to buy at reduced prices.

I would be able to afford a lot less gear if not for this. With the exception of my 13 year old EF 50/1.4, every lens and body I own or have owned in the last decade has been used.

Oct 31, 2021 at 03:55 PM

Bassat
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Imagemaster wrote:
If you are happy with your present gear, what is the point of your posting? I am 80 and have been taking photos for 60 years. Digital replacing film was the greatest thing to make photography more enjoyable and efficient for me. Going to mirrorless from DSLR was another enjoyable and better experience for me.

Do yourself a favor and buy the R6. Enjoy learning how to use it. Your EF lenses will work just as well or better on an RF-mount camera using an adapter.

If you can't be bothered, or don't want to take advantage of what newer cameras...Show more →

I find your post very thought-provoking. One thing I really like about photography is experimenting. I agree with you, and millions of others, that digital made photography more enjoyable and efficient. However, I've gotten a bit bored. Hence the return to film. Surely, I will find MILCs interesting and enjoyable if/when I get there. The 'advantage' of film, to me, is nostalgia. I liked opening the package I got back from the drug store. I like opening the .zip file I get from TheDarkRoom. It is like Christmas and going to the candy counter with my grandfather, all rolled into one.

Oct 31, 2021 at 03:58 PM

jedibrain
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Bassat wrote:
I had not considered renting, as I've never done that before. I did think of trying the original R with an adapter, but it is DIGIC 8, not DIGIC X, so I don't believe the AF would perform as well as the R5/R6.

Don't bother with the R. While a good camera, it is the R5 and R6 that will show you the big advantages of mirrorless.

Renting is a good way to go for trying things out. I rented an R6 in Fall 2020. It was great. Spent the next year thinking and saving, and finally bought one. Just don't buy the rental. They offer that as an option, but you pay a premium for used gear. Not worth it.

I also rented the 1.4x TC (EF model vIII) and battery grip to decide if I like them. The verdict is TC, yes, Grip, yes, but not $350 worth of yes. It'll eventually be on sale. Next up on my list is a couple of 50mm 1.4s. The Sigma Art and Zeiss Milvus. We will see which I like better, or if I like either of them enough to drop the money.

Brian

Oct 31, 2021 at 05:14 PM

JohnSil
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

Bassat wrote:
I am just too old (64) to bother learning a new trick (MILC). Comments/opinions?

Bassat, LoL, you may be old but there are no new tricks to learn!
The newer the camera the more whatever tricks they do, the more they do all those tricks all by themselves!
Nothing new to learn, other than to learn to empty out your wallet but that’s hardly a trick, more like an involuntary reaction!! LoL
You seem to have all you need in cameras so just stay with what you have.
You’re like me, I do film with an EOS 1n so I can use all my EF lenses, great setup.
If you did get something ML you can continue to use your EF’s with a converter.
Good luck
John

Oct 31, 2021 at 05:43 PM

Bassat
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Mirrorless for me? I don't think so. Perhaps I am 'an old dog'.

TeamSpeed wrote:
I moved partially to mirrorless for the following advantages over my 7D2 and 5D4:

- IBIS
- Eye AF is wonderfully freeing in being able to just let the camera follow the subject I set, and I just worry about the scene I am capturing
- Working (and pretty darn well too) AF at apertures beyond f8 (for 1.4x and 2x use on slower lenses)
- 20fps in ES
- Silent shutter
- Foc to view images and menu items in bright daylight in the VF and cull or zoom around, etc
- Be able to use RF lenses once they come out with something that there...Show more →

I certainly see the usefulness of your list of features, and I am positive there are myriad other advantages to the R3/R5/R6 bodies. I've come to realize that I don't do much with a camera that can't be done with a run-of-the-mill film body like the EOS 650. If I need ETTL-II, or 1/250 sync, I can field the 1V. What I've really come to appreciate about shooting film is the sheer simplicity of it all. This is the way I used a camera 50 years ago. Comfortable. That sums it up, nicely.

Oct 31, 2021 at 05:51 PM

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