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O' where O' where is the glare coming from?

  
 
mdvaden
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


I feel like I'm seeing more glare these days shooting indoor. Any suggestions what to tweak, and still use the same space. I have an 8 foot ceiling in a 28 x 30 foot room. When I used two lights it seemed like there was less glare. Previously just one softbox in front and a strip box angled in the back.

Lately, I'm adding a bare flash set 1/16th set behind the subject and a hair light angled above mounted on the ceiling, set 1/8th. And I'm also placing a black fabric panel on the ceiling above the subject.

Wondering if my lens is picking up too much from the hair light ... ??

For this photo.

1. softbox camera right

2. 5 foot strip box back and left, flagged with a black curtain

3. speedlight behind 1/16th

4. hair light top right angled down and toward the subject.

This image is basically unedited. Backdrop is one of the collapsible 5 x 7 cloth kind, with a mottled black and grey color. Ideas?

Thanks






  Canon EOS R    TAMRON SP 90mm F/2.8 Di VC USD MACRO1:1 F017 lens    90mm    f/11.0    1/180s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Oct 25, 2021 at 11:07 PM
c.d.embrey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


Vastly over-lit! Hair-light is for separation when shooting Black & White. You are shooting Color—so why are you using hair-light?

The edge on the shirt is just plain ugly. Meh! His right shoulder cry's-out for some front fill. I like Black China Silk, and would probably use one with my Fill -Light.

I'm retired IATSE https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1379875/ and have shot hundreds of TV Commercials and Product Stills.








Oct 26, 2021 at 02:26 AM
story_teller
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


I agree that the hair light hurt this image. Typically, hair lights and rim lights are much more subtle when used. You might also consider building or buying a couple black and white v-flats. They would be handy for your studio shoots. In this case I would have tried a white v-flat to add a bit of fill to his right shoulder. You could also consider getting some optional grids for your soft boxes. Occasionally using them would give you additional light control, when needed.




Oct 26, 2021 at 06:24 AM
mdvaden
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


story_teller wrote:
I agree that the hair light hurt this image. Typically, hair lights and rim lights are much more subtle when used. You might also consider building or buying a couple black and white v-flats. They would be handy for your studio shoots. In this case I would have tried a white v-flat to add a bit of fill to his right shoulder. You could also consider getting some optional grids for your soft boxes. Occasionally using them would give you additional light control, when needed.



For the previous poster, the answer to why a hair light, is to light the hair a bit more as an accent. But I could dial down that light a lot.

I have foam core on a stand where I think you refer to using V-Flats, and I could try mowing it closer, changing the angle, and maybe doubling it's surface size.

There are grids for the softboxes up on a shelf. I can mount one or both next time and compare.




Oct 26, 2021 at 07:27 PM
story_teller
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


You may already know this, but a v-flat is simply two foam core boards that are taped together on one edge and can stand alone as a "v". When not in use they can stay folded up against the wall. Black ones can be used as flags and negative fill, as an example. The grids help with light spill and reduce the need for flags in many cases, but do reduce the light power, so be aware of that.

Both are very handy in smaller spaces.



Oct 27, 2021 at 07:58 AM
CharleyL
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


I agree about the hair light being way too bright and would not likely use one at all for this shot. The strip box is way too bright. I would have used a panel (I don't have V flats) on camera left to reflect the soft box light back toward him on his right side. My panels are 1/2" thick 4 X 7' foam insulation painted ceiling white on one side and flat black on the other. I made stands of 3/4" plywood with a slot on top that the panels slide into. The top of both upward pieces have a hand hole in them for easy carrying within the studio. My studio ceiling is also 8', the reason for 7' panels and not 8'. You could do the same with a large folding reflector and a stand. A flag or grid on the soft box may be needed to keep it's light off your backdrop, but feathering it (turning more toward the camera and only using it's edge to light him) may be enough. It would be easier to get more light on his right side with the reflector too.

Setting lights and reflectors one at a time, and doing test shots, is the only way to really see what is really happening. Get each one right before going with all for the working shots. Once close, a slight adjustment with each significant different pose may be needed, and maybe another test shot or two before continuing. You should attempt a 1-2 stop lower level off the reflector than from the soft box. Position and angle of the reflector will produce interesting, but light shadows. Choose what you like best.

Charley







Oct 27, 2021 at 10:16 AM
Paul_K
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


My st reaction reading your post is : So much lighting equipment, why?

The fact that it can be bought shouldn't be a reason to therefor obsessively buy it all, and 'throw the sink' at a shoot, especially if you don't really know how to handle it.

I would recommend buying and carefully read a book (so not watch some flashy tutorial video where things are 'explained' and presented as if 'o so easy to do') that slowly and in detail tells and shows what lighting set up to use in whatever different situation.

I e.g. learnt much of what I know about about lighting from reading an admittedly very boring old (first edition in the 40's) book, 'Lighting for portraiture' by Walter Nurnberg.
As said, old, with mainly black and white pictures, not of young sexy appealing models, outdated in many respects since dating from the 40/50's.

But detailed in what a certain type of light in a certain position and height would do on a model, especially place, shape of shadow and depth created, and if desired, how to set up a multiple light set, eg






Must admit I prefer to only use one light + reflection screen for most of my studio shoots,





but I do so based on what I learned from the above book






Oct 27, 2021 at 04:46 PM
 


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mdvaden
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


Paul_K wrote:
My st reaction reading your post is : So much lighting equipment, why?


For me the question or answer may dwell on a 4th light. I've used one light, but prefer two better. I often shoot against black and prefer a rim of light to set the subject apart. But I seem to go too hot on the 3rd light.

Someone previous mentioned getting more light on the subject's right shoulder. I think for this photo the white foam core on a stand was placed closer. And there was room to bring it even another foot closer.











Oct 28, 2021 at 08:38 PM
Paul_K
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


mdvaden wrote:
For me the question or answer may dwell on a 4th light. I've used one light, but prefer two better. I often shoot against black and prefer a rim of light to set the subject apart. But I seem to go too hot on the 3rd light.

Someone previous mentioned getting more light on the subject's right shoulder. I think for this photo the white foam core on a stand was placed closer. And there was room to bring it even another foot closer.


Well, IMO the issue really isn't about adding a possible 4th light, but rather about the proper positioning of the lights used.

I hope I won't offend you if I try to analyze the current set up and add my remarks.

To begin with, IMO the main light from the right is positioned too low,as in its current position it creates an almost upwards pointing shadow, so much so that the deepest shadow created is in the eye socket of the subject.
A most unusual place as IMX in portraits lights are usually positioned in such way that the shadow of the pose in pointing downward, and stays away from the eye, in the process creating a what might seem sparkle in the eye (while low positioned light creating upward pointing shadows are more common in old time horror movies like the House of Hammer Cristopher Lee vampire ones).

Based on 'hair light top right angled down and toward the subject' I understand a hair light was used. IMO the effect of that hair light is very, if not too subdued, to say the least. While it indeed illuminates the hair, it does very little to create an light accent, and consequently to separate the sitter from the back ground.

The bare (?) speedlight now used for that purpose (?) is, again IMO, now positioned too low, and despite its low power setting due to the unfiltered output way too harsh.
In its current position it not only separates in a unnatural way by creating a halo type effect, but also in my taste shows the hairs in the neck in too much detail, and does a similar IMO undesirable unflattering job with the ears.

In addition to that, the illumination by the flagged striplights IMO is a bit too visible for an intended fill, not only creating an overly bright shadow, even simply illuminating part of the right cheek rather then fill in the shaodow, but also an unusual and IMO for portraits undesirable light accent on the corner of the mouth and even more 'hot spot' on the nose (although that might also be a consequence of the ill positioned speedlight behind the subject).

While as I stated earlier I nowadays prefer to work with only one light and reflections screens, I in the past have tried my hand using multiple light set ups, although I didn't have the amount of equipment/lights you have at your disposal.

Did some digging in my photographic 'archives' and found e.g. this image I shot as a 1st year photography student in 1980 (or 1981, not sure)





at one of my very first 'serious' model shoots, with a make up/hair artist (we we're actually shooting in her living room) and well prepared styling.

My lighting consisted of two lights, the main light almost frontal slightly on the left, the 2nd one from the top right, somewhat behind the model.
While the main light also is almost on the same level as the model, the nose shadow created is still slightly below it, and the size is quite minimal.

In hindsight I could/should have softened the 2nd light somewhat by adding a diffusion filter like eg a Lee frost gel on it, but as I at that time still was making my 1st steps into studio photography, I didn't know yet about the existence of that type of filter at that time.
Nevertheless it IMO does a nice job of separating the model from the dark back ground (which actually was a glossy brownish cloth, but got darker due to the distance between the model and the background, and positioning of the lights), as well of creating a light accent on the black hair of the model, without creating a halo.

As perhaps comparing B/W with color might seem a bit unfair, I also include a color image (slide actually, so with very little latitude for corrections at the time I took it) I did took at the time






HTH

Edited on Oct 30, 2021 at 06:45 AM · View previous versions



Oct 29, 2021 at 07:26 AM
mdvaden
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


Paul_K wrote:
Well, IMO the issue really isn't about adding a possible 4th light, but really about the proper positioning of the lights used.

I hope I won't offend you if I try to analyze the current set up and add my remarks.

To begin with, IMO the main light from the right is positioned too low,as in its current position it creates an almost upwards pointing shadow, so much so that the deepest shadow created it in the eye socket of the subject.
HTH


That among other suggestions would be worth changing. Now that you mention it, I recall dropping the main light lower than usual and continued to take photos without carefully paying attention to what the change was like.

The top edge of the softbox was above his full height, but center, assuming that was the brightest, may have been below his chest.




Oct 29, 2021 at 10:04 AM
story_teller
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


mdvaden wrote:
That among other suggestions would be worth changing. Now that you mention it, I recall dropping the main light lower than usual and continued to take photos without carefully paying attention to what the change was like.

The top edge of the softbox was above his full height, but center, assuming that was the brightest, may have been below his chest.




Just a thought - You might consider tethering to your laptop or computer while shooting. Seeing the images on a larger screen helps me spot issues during the shoot.



Oct 29, 2021 at 12:16 PM
mdvaden
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


This was a favorite from earlier last summer. I recall putting black overhead on the ceiling and also flagging a couple of lights.







Oct 31, 2021 at 12:11 AM
Paul_K
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


mdvaden wrote:
This was a favorite from earlier last summer. I recall putting black overhead on the ceiling and also flagging a couple of lights.


Much better.

As can be seen by the downward pointing shadow of the nose the main light in this image is pointing down from a higher point, and the spill over the nose bridge ads a IMO welcome sprakle in the eye.

Don't know what you mean with a 'black overhead' but whatever it was,it has worked out well

Still don't agree with the position and intensity of the fill in light.

It's still too bright, almost creating a harsh two light effect with sources from the left and right, with a pronounced shadow area in the middle of the face.

While that extreme type of lighting has now been narrowly avoided, the overly strong fill light still, similar to the other image posted earlier, creates a hotspot/flare on the nostril and nose bridge.

While a shiny nose is a welcome signal on the health of a dog, or a joyous illustration for the holiday/Christmas season , it IMO does not go well in a portrait (seriously speaking, it's one of those things a MUA is called for in action, to immediately correct with a dash of powder).

I personally would instead have gone for a simple reflection screen, depending on the desired effect either a white (for a soft fill) or silver one (for a more pronounced, compared to a white reflector, slightly harsher fill).

From the catch light in the eye it's IMX possible to deduce the fil light was also positioned on the left lower side of the subject.
While that may seem as valid solution to also clear up any downward pointing shadows, or even shadows created under the chin (although in this image the beard takes very much care of that), it, in its current power setting it, again IMO, is too overly present in the image.
I would, as I did in this picture,





(sorry, from somewhere in the mid 80's, when I had switched from flash to continuous, in this case I think Hedler, halogen lights, which with the max 800 ISO of Tri-X forced to use already slow - 4/150mm Sonnar on a 500CM - lenses wide open in combination with slow shutter speeds around a mere 1/60th, in this image perhaps even slower) have opted to, in addition to the reflection screen (instead of a fill light) on the (high) left, simply positioned a horizontal reflector in front of the model.

My two cents



Oct 31, 2021 at 06:36 AM
2613pch
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · O' where O' where is the glare coming from?


Nice image but you may try starting with only one light and building the image.
The key light is not quite right to start with.
Might have too much up angle on the lens.



Feb 07, 2022 at 02:01 PM







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