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Archive 2021 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

StillFilm1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

The R5 manual notes that the 800 f5.6L will not support 12 FPS. Does anyone know what the max frame rate this lens supports with the R5?

Oct 14, 2021 at 08:25 PM

nimrazer
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

A million $ question :_)

Oct 14, 2021 at 11:06 PM

StillFilm1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

and the answer is 6 frames per second. Disappointing.

Oct 15, 2021 at 08:40 AM

R Royse
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

It gets about 8 frames per second, maybe more. It's hard to tell, but it doesn't seem too much different from the 1D Mark4 that I had been using the lens on. It does get the full 20 fps with the electronic shutter. For me it's not an issue at all. I actually prefer using the electronic shutter in short bursts, even in one shot mode. You don't get the black out and there is less vibration. A bigger issue for me was getting the focusing accurate. I had to send the lens to CPS several times because of front focusing issues on the R5. The first few times it went to VA and it never got better. The last time it was sent to CA and it finally focuses accurately on the R5. That was all covered in the warranty of the R5, but Canon must have paid a fortune to ship that lens back and forth so many times.

Oct 15, 2021 at 08:43 AM

Andrew J
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

20 fps with the electronic shutter which is what really matters.

Oct 15, 2021 at 04:14 PM

jaredmizanin
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

R Royse wrote:
A bigger issue for me was getting the focusing accurate. I had to send the lens to CPS several times because of front focusing issues on the R5. The first few times it went to VA and it never got better. The last time it was sent to CA and it finally focuses accurately on the R5. That was all covered in the warranty of the R5, but Canon must have paid a fortune to ship that lens back and forth so many times.

Fellow Ohioan here-
I recently picked up a secondhand R5 and have been disappointed in the results with my 800/5.6L. Problem? Front-focusing. I posted on another forum my concerns but I was quickly dismissed as 'front and back-focusing doesn't occur on mirrorless bodies.' At this point I just figured I really suck at this hobby, until I just read this. I'm not sure I want to deal with all the troubles and expenses of sending a body and lens in for professional evaluation and instead might just sell the camera and instead use my 1DX Mark II. I'm going to play around with the combo a little more before making a decision. I was thinking maybe the lens's IS and the R5's IBIS weren't getting along well, and I just ordered a new drop-in 52wII filter to replace my old gelatin filter hoping the slight smudge on the filter may be causing AF inaccuracies. We shall see what further testing with the new filter reveals once it arrives.

I would love to hear other reports on how their 800L behaves with the R5, which may also be helpful to the thread author.

Oct 15, 2021 at 06:17 PM

R Royse
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

jaredmizanin wrote:
Fellow Ohioan here-
I recently picked up a secondhand R5 and have been disappointed in the results with my 800/5.6L. Problem? Front-focusing. I posted on another forum my concerns but I was quickly dismissed as 'front and back-focusing doesn't occur on mirrorless bodies.' At this point I just figured I really suck at this hobby, until I just read this. I'm not sure I want to deal with all the troubles and expenses of sending a body and lens in for professional evaluation and instead might just sell the camera and instead use my 1DX Mark II. I'm going to play...Show more →

Hi Jared,
If you want the 800 to be a precision workhorse tool, then stick with the 1D series cameras. I'm still not confident with the 800 on the R5 like I am with 1D cameras. When it's good on the R5 it's very, very good, but it's flaky, especially with the 1.4x attached. The 1D Mark4 has been discontinued for 10 years now, but Canon still hasn't offered a camera with a higher pixel density that is more reliable with the 800 since then. I never found the 7 and 5 series cameras to be 100% trustworthy with the 800 either compared to the 1D cameras. I would be interested in trying the R3 with the lens, but for me that's way too much money to spend on a 24 mp camera at this point in time even if it is a good camera.

Oct 16, 2021 at 07:18 AM

Dilemma
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

I have this combination.

Nope. The R5 will not do 12 FPS with the 800 5.6. I'm getting 7. It will however do 20 in ES. Also, I'm not experiencing any focusing issues, it behaves very similar to my 5D MK IV in that respect.

Oct 18, 2021 at 03:33 PM

R Royse
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

I envy all those people who can get the sharp and consistently accurate telephoto shots from their R5's, but that has not been my experience.

I just went out with the lens align and tested my 800L at close range on the R5 and the bare lens is usually pretty close, but maybe front focuses a bit at times. It's certainly better than it was before I sent it to California. Adding on the 1.4x was more inconsistent and usually tended to front focus a bit more in one shot mode. If I put in in servo mode it would get perfect after a few frames. I also tried the Rf800 f11 lens with it using the same set up. The results with the RF800 were far worse with fewer accurately focused shots, most being backfocused. I also once again put my now 12 year old 1D Mark4 on the EF 800L and every shot nailed focus at every aperture both with the bare lens and with the 1.4x - no microadjustment needed.

I haven't ever been able to try any other R5's, but from my limited perspective it is the the most inaccurately focusing Canon camera I have ever used. I have owned somewhere around 20 EOS cameras over the years and have used 600 or 800mm lenses on all of them without issue going back to the EOS 1N and the original EF 600m f4 in the 90's. The 1D Mark3 was my main camera for several years and I never experienced any of the focusing issues that seemed to bother others. For me the R5 has been a nightmare with telephotos, but my Sigma wide angles sure do produce nice files with it.

Oct 19, 2021 at 12:38 PM

Dilemma
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

I'm not entirely clear on how a mirrorless cameras front or back focuses. At least as I know it defined.

Oct 19, 2021 at 02:53 PM

jedibrain
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

Almost makes you wonder if the older telephotos had some kind of bias programmed in to make an offset from the calculated focus position vs. the actual final focus position. This could have been done to account for some behavior they noticed in development that caused a 'miss' on focus between the focus sensor and the actual sensor in a DSLR (a built-in AFMA of sorts). But now that the focus and actual sensor are the same in mirrorless, the offset is causing missed focus. Pure speculation.

I only have an R6, and my longest lens is the 100-400 VII, and it has had no focus issues.

Brian

Oct 19, 2021 at 03:40 PM

Andrew J
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

R Royse wrote:
I envy all those people who can get the sharp and consistently accurate telephoto shots from their R5's, but that has not been my experience.

I just went out with the lens align and tested my 800L at close range on the R5 and the bare lens is usually pretty close, but maybe front focuses a bit at times. It's certainly better than it was before I sent it to California. Adding on the 1.4x was more inconsistent and usually tended to front focus a bit more in one shot mode. If I put in in servo mode it would...Show more →

R5 needs a much higher shutter speed than the 16mp 1D mkIV. 1/4000 in ES mode should track great and be the sharpest shots ever with that lens.
If not could be this:

R5 Sensor Misalignment Issue CONFIRMED
https://youtu.be/YPI6OJxKnE8

Oct 19, 2021 at 04:11 PM

R Royse
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

The lens tracks fine and the tests are perfectly sharp, just not where I want. I'm talking about millimeters here at close range in one shot mode. I'm viewing everything at 200% in B&W. I'm just saying that the initial shot is always sharper right in front of where I want. In servo mode it moves back to where it should be after a couple of frames. With the electronic shutter that's only a fraction of a second, but that's too long. What does this mean for me in practical application? It means when that Connecticut Warbler or whatever strikes that perfect pose and I get one and only one chance to fire off a frame with a little bit of fill flash the sharpest focus point won't be on the bird.

Oct 19, 2021 at 08:52 PM

lighthound
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

I have no experience with the R5 + 800 but I do with the R5 + 500 II and I must say that I find it difficult to NOT get a sharp image. I almost miss the days when I could quickly cull through images by simply deleting all the oof images. With the R5, 95% or more are usually tack sharp, depending on conditions and subject.

It would be helpful to see sample images showing this Front or back focus. It would also be nice to have access to some of these raw files so they could be opened in DPP to see where the AF point actually locked.

We've seen a few other bad R5 focusing issues in the past year but nearly all of them, if not all, had simple explanations. Anything from bad filters being used to heat shimmer from heat rolling off the hood of someone's car when they jumped out of the car to take some shots.

As another poster mentioned, I'm also having a hard time understanding how any MILC can back or front focus with a particular lens. It's my understanding that with mirrorless cameras they will continue to hunt until the camera detects focus at the sensor itself.
If any of the older lenses did in fact have some type of "designed offset" to compensate for earlier DSLR bodies, it seems like it would be irrelevant on a mirrorless body because the camera determines what is in focus right at the sensor itself and would continue to hunt until the camera locked on target. I doubt such a half baked "fix" would have ever been done to any lens. This would have caused unlimited problems over the years with each new body paired with such a lens.

Being that this issue appears to only be happening with the longest focal length lens, it does sound like this could be a technique or shutter speed issue. 45mp is not very forgiving especially if you are pixel peeping at 200%.

Oct 19, 2021 at 10:18 PM

R Royse
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

lighthound wrote:
It would be helpful to see sample images showing this Front or back focus. It would also be nice to have access to some of these raw files so they could be opened in DPP to see where the AF point actually locked.

I would be glad to send you all the RAW files or processed tif's you want if you PM me your name and email address. I can send them to you via WeTransfer or whatever it's called if you really want to see them. My paid membership here has expired and I currently can't post examples.

I got my R5 last November and only had it a short time before the IS unit on the lens had to be sent to Canon to be replaced. I only had a few opportunities to try the lens on the camera before the "surgery". I have looked over those initial shots and the focusing was dead on, even with the 1.4x in one shot mode. I even made some prints from a couple of them. There were absolutely no focusing issues. If there were I probably would have sent the camera right back. It was only since then when the trouble started. Right now it appears that there has been some sort of focus shift induced since the lens focuses better wide open than when stopped down. Stopping down mostly increases the DOF in front of the focus point. With the 1.4x the focus shifts so far forward that by f11 where it should be sharpest, the focus point is well in front of the subject. The lens did NOT do that before I sent it to Canon for IS repair. The lens also currently has no focus shift on the 1D Mark4, eventhough the focusing is always done with the lens wide open. Stopping down does not shift the focus point forward on that camera at all alone or with the 1.4x at any aperture. Why does it do that on the R5? I have no idea and Canon hasn't done anything about it despite many trips to their factory repair facilities (at their cost I might add). It's certainly better than it was last summer, but the problem persists after 5 or 6 trips to them, maybe more. I've lost count. Last summer I tried another 800L on my camera and did side by side tests with mine. His functioned perfectly. Right now the only way to get my lens to focus properly, especially with the 1.4x stopped down, is to use SERVO mode with the electronic shutter when the lens starts focusing through the lens stopped down.

Oct 20, 2021 at 06:35 PM

lighthound
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

R Royse wrote:
I would be glad to send you all the RAW files or processed tif's you want if you PM me your name and email address. I can send them to you via WeTransfer or whatever it's called if you really want to see them. My paid membership here has expired and I currently can't post examples.

I got my R5 last November and only had it a short time before the IS unit on the lens had to be sent to Canon to be replaced. I only had a few opportunities to try the lens on the camera before the...Show more →

I must have missed all the other issues you've been having to deal with on the IS and repeated service visits. That really sucks that this lens AF was working fine until they repaired the IS. Sounds like something got messed up.
I recall reading something about the need to lock the IS before shipping so that the lens groups don't shift around while in transit. I wonder if this was done and if not could this cause a lens decentering issue that could have created the problem you are seeing. I wish I knew more about this topic but I don't.

Sure, I can take a look and let you know if I see anything odd. Let me know if you'd like me to share them here for the discussion. I'm not a paid member myself as I let it run out earlier this year. I could put them up on Flickr and post them here I you want. Just let me know. Sending you a PM now.

Edit:
Just for the record, my R5 is almost always in servo mode because I mainly shoot critters. Critters move as do I slightly when up on a target. The only time I come out of servo is when I shoot landscapes using a tripod.
That's if I remember to switch over to single shot.

Oct 20, 2021 at 07:39 PM

R Royse
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · EF 800 F5.6 and R5

I got used to one shot mode long ago since I only wanted to shoot one frame at a time with fill flash at the peak moment of opportunity. Although it's less important with digital cameras, that technique was necessary to photograph songbirds with film cameras.

Circling back around to my lens. I think the big telephotos really do need the battery of the 1 series camera to drive the whole assembly of focusing, aperture blades, IS units, etc. for instant absolute precision. There is certainly nothing wrong optically with my 800. It's stunning when it nails focus. My guess is that the 800mm lens will perform magnificently with the R3, but $6k for a 24mp camera in 2022?

Oct 21, 2021 at 04:48 PM


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