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Archive 2021 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

esmalkin
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

I was hoping to get some input from those familiar with the Q and the M (most likely 240/262). My Q is currently at the NJ service facility for a new EVF, sensor cleaning, AF adjustment and general sprucing up. While I enjoy the camera I have still never warmed up to the 28mm focal length. I was thinking about putting up a WTT to see if anyone has an M they would be interested in trading for my Q (plus $ on my side). My thinking is that since my Q just came back from being serviced it's likely at the top of it's value curve so it would be a good time to trade it.

Does anyone have experience with both and have any thoughts to share? I have several Voigtlander M lenses so I have some glass to use with the M right off the bat.

Thank you for any input!

Jul 13, 2021 at 11:53 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

That's the main issue and was instantly the deal-breaker for me when the Q-series was released - only with fixed lens! Imagine how such camera would have flown off the shelves with interchangeable lens mount...

The M 240/262 is currently the best price/quality ratio to get as digital M. By selling the Q, you should be able to easily afford a used M 240 in very good condition. Make sure you like rangefinder focusing before getting into a M series camera. If you prefer EVF, the Leica SL or Panasonic MLC series are other alternatives to check out since they can also be used with M lenses.

Jul 13, 2021 at 12:36 PM

esmalkin
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

Thanks for your input!

I was hoping I would be able to come to terms with the 28mm - I don't so much mind working in one focal length, but I'm finding 28mm to be too wide for me. I have some photographer friends who turn out stunning work with the 28 length so I was hoping I could make it work too. lol.

I have played around with an M 240 at the Leica store which they were kind enough to let me under a bit with and I found the focusing to be much easier than I had thought it would be. I have been shooting MF lenses with other digital bodies for some time now and have been enjoying the process of focusing for myself on exactly what I want so my thought was the RF experience might be an enjoyable one.

I do like EVF's and have a Panasonic S5 (The SL's cousin) which I enjoy using, but the focus peaking with the Voigltander M lenses is very faint so I found nailing focus much harder than with my Takumar or Helios lenses. Strange how the lens can affect the focus peaking so much.

Jul 13, 2021 at 01:05 PM

retrofocus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

esmalkin wrote:
Thanks for your input!

I was hoping I would be able to come to terms with the 28mm - I don't so much mind working in one focal length, but I'm finding 28mm to be too wide for me. I have some photographer friends who turn out stunning work with the 28 length so I was hoping I could make it work too. lol.

I have played around with an M 240 at the Leica store which they were kind enough to let me under a bit with and I found the focusing to be much easier than I had thought...Show more →

I made a similar experience regarding focus accuracy with focus peaking and magnification on my Sony A7R which made me later move to Leica M. Rangefinder focusing is faster and more accurate. I observed the same at the time that sometimes focus peaking with M lenses was faint even if it was set to "high" level in the menu. Adapted (D)SLR lenses didn't have this issue.

Jul 13, 2021 at 01:10 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

retrofocus wrote:
I made a similar experience regarding focus accuracy with focus peaking and magnification on my Sony A7R which made me later move to Leica M. Rangefinder focusing is faster and more accurate. I observed the same at the time that sometimes focus peaking with M lenses was faint even if it was set to "high" level in the menu. Adapted (D)SLR lenses didn't have this issue.

It's the contrast of the lens available at the chosen aperture. For example, the CV 35 1.2 III when wide open barely activates focus peaking at all – there's just not enough contrast. The CV 50/35 APOs are easy to snap into focus with peaking wide open at f/2.

Jul 13, 2021 at 04:08 PM

esmalkin
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

Interesting. My Voigtlander 40mm is plenty contrasty and the peaking is all but invisible no matter the aperture chosen, but my Takumar 50mm is less contrasty and focus peaking is clearly visible no matter the aperture chosen. I was thinking it had more to do with the rear optic design of the M lenses than the overall contrast, but I'm certainly not an expert.

Jul 13, 2021 at 04:35 PM

flash
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

1. I would immediately purchase a Q2 with a 50mm lens. I have the Q2, which I use as my 28mm solution for my SL2 but a 50mm version would instantly become my most used camera.

2. If you're happy with the RF focusing then an M240 makes sense. But there's an option. Well, a couple.

3. A CL with 35mm 1.7 will also give you what you want. The lens is arguably better than the 28mm on the Q2. Although it's APSC it really is so close to the M240 sensor IQ as not to matter. You'd retain AF as well. Obvoiusly the smaller sensor will affect the field of view of your M lenses.

4. There's a deal on for the SLS body that includes the M adaptor. I know you have the S5 but the SL2S does better with M lenses. SL2 lenses are not cheap though so you're getting into another level. But damn, they're nice.

Gordon

Jul 13, 2021 at 05:00 PM

esmalkin
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

Same - a Q2 with a 50mm lens would be my ideal camera.

The CL is an interesting option. Do you think the IQ is much better than a Fuji X-100V?

I think if I am going to use the M lenses I might as well use them on an M. I enjoy my Voigtlander lenses on my S5 for the smaller size, but the Super Takumar 50mm is my all time favorite lens and it pairs really well with the S5, especially for portraits.

Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate the input!

Jul 13, 2021 at 05:07 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

esmalkin wrote:
Interesting. My Voigtlander 40mm is plenty contrasty and the peaking is all but invisible no matter the aperture chosen, but my Takumar 50mm is less contrasty and focus peaking is clearly visible no matter the aperture chosen. I was thinking it had more to do with the rear optic design of the M lenses than the overall contrast, but I'm certainly not an expert.

Subject also has to have plenty of contrast. Many lenses won't do focus peaking well in dim, indoor lighting.

Jul 13, 2021 at 05:45 PM

esmalkin
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

Makes sense, but even in very low light the Takumar has sufficient focus peaking to be visible whereas the Voigtlander on the same camera, with the same settings, has focus peaking that is all but invisible under all conditions. I definitely think there is more at play than contrast and bright lighting, personally.

Jul 13, 2021 at 06:13 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

esmalkin wrote:
Same - a Q2 with a 50mm lens would be my ideal camera.

The CL is an interesting option. Do you think the IQ is much better than a Fuji X-100V?

I think if I am going to use the M lenses I might as well use them on an M. I enjoy my Voigtlander lenses on my S5 for the smaller size, but the Super Takumar 50mm is my all time favorite lens and it pairs really well with the S5, especially for portraits.

Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate the input!

The X100V is a brilliant camera, but once I'd used a Q, I had to go back to the Q.

If you want an M, just know the M11 is right around the corner in November (11/11/21 announcement is rumored).

Jul 13, 2021 at 06:20 PM

esmalkin
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

Good! Maybe it will drive down the price of used M10's! lol!

Jul 13, 2021 at 06:26 PM

flash
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

esmalkin wrote:
Same - a Q2 with a 50mm lens would be my ideal camera.

The CL is an interesting option. Do you think the IQ is much better than a Fuji X-100V?

In a word, yes.

The CL with 35mm 1.4 TL (52mm equiv) is spectacular. There is nothing better in APSC. The TL lenses are epic.

Gordon

Jul 13, 2021 at 07:04 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

flash wrote:
In a word, yes.

The CL with 35mm 1.4 TL (52mm equiv) is spectacular. There is nothing better in APSC. The TL lenses are epic.

Gordon

+1

Plays nice with M lenses, too. Granted the FOV changes due to the format diff, but it puts you in the "sweet spot" of the glass, so my 28/2.8 > 42mm FOV. If you like 42mm FOV, then it's a great match. IQ of the CL, good stuff, all day long.

Pancake lenses (X-100V) have their pro / con aspect.
Comparing a non-Leica pancake to a Leica non-pancake ... well, I'd not expect them to be the same.

I don't have any Voigts, but I'm not aware of any reason why they wouldn't play nice ("sweet spot" again) on the CL, via the M>L adapter.

Jul 13, 2021 at 10:11 PM

esmalkin
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

Thanks all for the excellent input! I had not thought of the CL and it might be a good choice, especially since it's and L mount just like my S5.

Jul 14, 2021 at 10:06 AM

Nick Dakota
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

esmalkin wrote:
The CL is an interesting option. Do you think the IQ is much better than a Fuji X-100V?

The xtrans 4 Fuji sensor is excellent with high iso for a crop sensor. IMO it's better than the CL, it's also better than the M240 sensor at high ISO.

The Q is better than them all

Jul 26, 2021 at 05:49 PM

Jaree
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

I have used both the Q and M240.

I now own the Q2. To start with, I was never a wide-angle kind of guy. But the 28MM on Q combined with ease of use and superb total imaging quality (colors, rendering, sharpness) convinced me. Cropping and still getting a crisp image was an eye opener. Q2 is my "never sell this" camera. If Q2 wasn't released, it would be the Q on the never sell this list.

On to your qs: IMHO a used M240 is a great option. I used mine with 35 'Lux, 24 Elmar, Zeiss ZM 35 F1.4 and Zeiss ZM 85 F4. Superb results. Very easy to focus and the rangefinder once adjusted never really drifted in the two years I owned it. While the rangefinder is very accurate, adding the Olympus VF-2 ($99 or so used) helped with some critical focus shots at F1.4. But hats off to the rangefinder - it matched the accuracy of EVF focusing with magnified live-view. Impressive.

Long battery life (two are enough for a full day), solid build. Only downside is the weight compared to M10, but I still prefer the M240.

Q vs M240: This is a hard one, but if fixed 28MM is not working out for you, I think the answer is clear. And, I don't think they should be compared - very different tools. Rangefinder is a joy to use. Q is unbeatable for "don't think, just take it with you".

I sold my M240, but will am holding on to the M lenses for obvious reasons - there is nothing in that size that can beat them. Will likely get a M again at some point when the world opens up for travel.

esmalkin wrote:
I was hoping to get some input from those familiar with the Q and the M (most likely 240/262). My Q is currently at the NJ service facility for a new EVF, sensor cleaning, AF adjustment and general sprucing up. While I enjoy the camera I have still never warmed up to the 28mm focal length. I was thinking about putting up a WTT to see if anyone has an M they would be interested in trading for my Q (plus $ on my side). My thinking is that since my Q just came back from being serviced it's likely...Show more →

Jul 29, 2021 at 12:28 PM

flash
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Opinions wanted on Leica Q and possible trade for M

Nick Dakota wrote:
The xtrans 4 Fuji sensor is excellent with high iso for a crop sensor. IMO it's better than the CL, it's also better than the M240 sensor at high ISO.

The Q is better than them all

That depends. The XTrans 4 can be excellent but it still doesn't play nice with all software, especially Lightroom, all the time. And even at very high ISO's, using C1, the CL sensor is barely noisier. Maybe a half stop behind. Up to 1600 you'd be hard pressed to see any difference at all. Plus the TL lenses are clearly better than the best Fujinon glass.

I do like my XT4 and 35mm 1.4 but it doesn't best the CL and TL 35mm 1.4. However the tracking AF, video and system flexibility is miles ahead on the Fuji, if those things are important.

Gordon

Jul 29, 2021 at 05:04 PM


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