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Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

50mm
EXTREME CORNER resolution/contrast comparison: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO-Lanthar vs Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux

Extreme corner at f/2: No contest here. The Leica shows strong astigmatism at the very corners. The Voigtlander is outstanding from wide open

Extreme corner at f/2.8: The Leica improves but so does the Voigtlander APO

Extreme corner at f/4: Now things start to even out but the Voigtlander is still ahead for the last 1 or 2% of the image field

Extreme corner at f/5.6: Both are similar now

Extreme corner at f/8: Both similar showing strong performance

Jun 29, 2021 at 08:34 AM

LBJ2
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

Fred Miranda wrote:
50mm
EXTREME CORNER resolution/contrast comparison: Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 Nokton vs Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux

I do enjoy these comparisons!

Some of the Summilux corner examples look really bad, unusually bad. Need to check my copy again, but I think I would have remembered these extreme corners. But maybe I didn't look close enough since I don't typically shoot these kind of shots wide open with the Summilux.

Jun 29, 2021 at 08:43 AM

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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

LBJ2 wrote:
I do enjoy these comparisons!

Some of the Summilux corner examples look really bad, unusually bad. Need to check my copy again, but I think I would have remembered these extreme corners. But maybe I didn't look close enough since I don't typically shoot these kind of shots wide open with the Summilux.

Keep in mind:

1) Most Leica shooters are used to inspecting images at 18MP or 24MP. When looking at 40MP files at 100% magnification (1:1) things get way more challenging and lenses' weaknesses get amplified.

2) The 50/1.4 Lux did very well imo. It performs slightly better than the Nokton at center and that's saying a lot since the Nokton is one of the sharpest 50mm lenses we have starting at f/2. (even slightly sharper than the APO). At mid-field it's still better at wide apertures but the Nokton recovers starting at f/2.8 and from there does slightly better. This was predictable from Leica's MTF though.

3) At the Extreme Corners: We are checking the very corner of the frame. This is not really relevant in real world images. There is higher astigmatism on for Lux at a very small section of the extreme corners. (I'd say 2% of the frame). So, even though it may look bad when looking at 100% mag for the very last edge of the extreme corners, this may not be noticeable in real images. When shooting landscapes, I would stop both lenses down to f/8 or smaller apertures anyways. The Voigtlander 50/2 APO would have a small advantage in resolution even at small apertures. (especially off-axis)

Jun 29, 2021 at 10:00 AM

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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

How about rendering? That's next. :-)

Jun 29, 2021 at 10:42 AM

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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

Fred Miranda wrote:
50mm
EXTREME CORNER resolution/contrast comparison: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO-Lanthar vs Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux

In this comparison, I am quite surprised how good Lux can hold itself against latest. I actually feel it has slightly better contrast at extreme corner after f5.6.

To be honest, 50lux is the most special leica glass IMHO. No lens can represent leica M better. Can you imagine this was introduced 15 years ago?

Jun 29, 2021 at 11:52 AM

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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

zhangyue wrote:
In this comparison, I am quite surprised by how good Lux can hold itself against latest. I actually feel it has slightly better contrast at extreme corner after f5.6.

To be honest, 50lux is the most special leica glass IMHO. No lens can represent leica M better. Can you imagine this was introduced 15 years ago?

For a 15 year old design, the 50 Lux is holding its own on 40MP. At center, it's likely one of the sharpest 50mm lenses I've tested to date and the performance holds on even at closer distances thanks to FLE.
The Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton just seems such a bargain in comparison since it competes neck and neck and it's actually better off-axis. I've checked some of my rendering tests, and these lenses are virtually indistinguishable.

This Leica copy is also perfectly calibrated at all focus distances on my M9 and M10-R's rangefinder. The Nokton is a hair off and the APO is good as well.

Having said that, to get optimal resolution at infinity, lenses must be perfectly calibrated to the M body. If the lens' hard stop is not enough to "reach" infinity, images may not be critically sharp at wide apertures and we would notice that on 40MP and 100% magnification. I may do another test slightly closer than infinity to see if these results change.

Jun 29, 2021 at 12:11 PM

robgo2
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

I would also point out that the Nokton 50 f/1.2 has a max aperture that is in Noctilux territory. Not bad for the price. Hell, it's not bad at any price.

Jun 29, 2021 at 01:07 PM

Arvaker
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

All three lenses are stellar. I have the Lux, and the Voigtländer VM 50/1.5 II; very different lenses - the Lux is sharper at 2-4meters, but the VM has buttery smooth focus and plenty sharp already at f1.5, and so small and light. Sits very well on the M! And while sharper than the old VM 50/1.5, it's bokeh is very, very different compared to the previous version (with the knurled focus ring), and with more vignetting. Focusing fast with the VM 50/1.5 is easier for some reason, compared to the Lux.
Well, looking forward to the rendering shots Fred!

Jun 29, 2021 at 01:15 PM

rw11
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

Did you do any tests for bokeh? Or that would show 3D "pop" or similar descriptors?

Jun 29, 2021 at 01:32 PM

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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

robgo2 wrote:
I would also point out that the Nokton 50 f/1.2 has a max aperture that is in Noctilux territory. Not bad for the price. Hell, it's not bad at any price.

Yes, but my experience with this lens is I almost always prefer to shoot it at f/2. It is nice to have that fast max aperture, but I don't use it that much, and it is especially weak close up and at wider apertures. One real advantage that the 50 lux Asph has is better performance at f/1.4, a little better in the center and even a bit better yet at mid-zone. That let's the 50 lux Asph work as a great portrait lens. With my 50 lux Asph I am very comfortable shooting it at f/1.4, but with my Voigt 50 f/1.2 I usually prefer to stop it down to f/2. So in this particular comparison we find an unusual reversal that the slower lens is more often used at a faster aperture, at least by me.

This is not to say the Voigt isn't an excellent portrait lens and a great all around performer. It is all that, and it is just a little better than the 50 lux Asph when stopped down for landscapes as this comparison shows. In my experience, however, the 50 lux Asph is clearly better when shooting close up (and I like to shoot fast aperture lenses close up a fair bit), and noticeably better as a portrait lens at f/1.4. These two types of shooting are where the 50 lux Asph stands out and I use my 50 for these things a lot, but I certainly understand why people who shoot close up less often, stop down for portraits a little more, and shoot a bunch of landscapes would prefer the Voigt f/1.2 Nokton, and I can see why lots of people--perhaps mos--would prefer the Voigt f/2 APO Lanthar for its excellent control of aberrations and great cross frame sharpness right from wide open.

In addition, there is little question the either Voigt lens is a much better bargain. Being around for 15 years, however, also means that you can get a 50 lux Asph for a lot less used than they cost new. Still the 50 lux Asph will set you back close to $3,000 even if you get a good deal for a used one or pretty much triple the price of either of the other two lenses.

Jun 29, 2021 at 02:26 PM

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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

I'm surprised how much better your Lux does in the corners than mine. I wonder if it has to do with mine being the black chrome version with the more narrow lens barrel-end with its vintage-correct 43mm filter size. I also have a Leica 43mm UV filter on mine, and that may be causing some smearing of the corners from mechanical vignetting from the rather thick filter ring. I'm going to retry mine bare without the filter, but I think the wider 46mm filter size/opening on the regular Lux may be an advantage here.

Come to think of it, I'm also using a Leica UV on my 28 Summilux, and these lenses may have zero tolerance for a filter ring as far as corner sharpness goes.

I thought of this because I remembered when shooting adapted lenses on the GFX, I could clearly see how adding a filter to a full frame lens would increase the area of corner smearing, giving the appearance of a smaller-than-true image circle.

Jun 29, 2021 at 02:50 PM

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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

Fred Miranda wrote:
How about rendering? That's next. :-)

Gotta get some more popcorn!

I'm a huge fan of the 50 Lux wide open at MFD (example below). I think of the 50 Lux at 1.4 as a more practical Noctilux

Jun 29, 2021 at 03:00 PM

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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

highdesertmesa wrote:
I'm surprised how much better your Lux does in the corners than mine. I wonder if it has to do with mine being the black chrome version with the more narrow lens barrel-end with its vintage-correct 43mm filter size. I also have a Leica 43mm UV filter on mine, and that may be causing some smearing of the corners from mechanical vignetting from the rather thick filter ring. I'm going to retry mine bare without the filter, but I think the wider 46mm filter size/opening on the regular Lux may be an advantage here.

Come to think of it, I'm also...Show more →

The barrel style should not make a difference in performance since they share the same optical design. Perhaps the smaller filter thread could induce higher vignetting...Not sure since I have not compared the regular Lux to the black chrome version.
I would first do a 'centering test' to see if all corners are equal at infinity. I'm not sure if it's luck but all the Leica lenses I've tested so far have been perfectly centered and well calibrated on my M bodies. I really appreciate the super tight tolerance from Leica and that's how it's possible to shoot 40MP using a mechanical rangefinder with precise accuracy. I would not want to go higher MP than that!

In the case of the Voigtlander 50/1.2, all the numerous copies I've tried were not 100% calibrated to the RF, (just a hair off) so it's not possible to get accuracy at close range at f/1.2. Perhaps Cosina calibrates the lens with focus shift in mind.

It's not hard to compensate for this if you know the lens' behavior though. For example, this copy front-focuses very slightly when using the RF so knowing that , when I get a sharp picture on the RF, I slightly rotate the focus ring CCW (just a tad) and take the picture. That gives me the best results with this particular copy.

That's probably why some members prefer stopping it down a bit so DOF could mask any focus discrepancy. With the 50 Lux, it's not problem getting sharp results wide open even at close range (FLE also helps clear up some SA).

Jun 29, 2021 at 03:35 PM

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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

highdesertmesa wrote:
I'm surprised how much better your Lux does in the corners than mine. I wonder if it has to do with mine being the black chrome version with the more narrow lens barrel-end with its vintage-correct 43mm filter size. I also have a Leica 43mm UV filter on mine, and that may be causing some smearing of the corners from mechanical vignetting from the rather thick filter ring. I'm going to retry mine bare without the filter, but I think the wider 46mm filter size/opening on the regular Lux may be an advantage here.

Come to think of it, I'm also...Show more →

I doubt BC version will be different. AFAIK, many people prefer BC the focus feeling to regular version as there are many complain about focus smoothness of certain copy of this lens due to complicated mechanical implementation of FLE. I would have bought a BC one if it had a focus tab. I like BC''s look more but tab is a must for M lens for me.

Mine behave exactly like Fred's copy. Based on my experience with Leica glasses, the copy variation is really minimal. Should you consider test it again, especially after f5.6, it should be really good cross frame.

I sold mine because I use 50cron APO much more recently but I think I will get it back later if I start pick/use M more. I also want to see if Leica will update this one in the near future, so I want hold the purchase a little more. Optical wise, there is really zero complain from me really. For leica M, my thinking is quite practical

as you can see from Fred's test, there is really not much to complain about this lens for its intended usage either portrait (wide aperture) or landscape (after f5.6).

Jun 29, 2021 at 04:43 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

Fred Miranda wrote:
The barrel design should not make a difference in performance since they share identical optical designs. Perhaps the smaller filter thread could induce higher vignetting...Not sure since I have not compared the regular Lux to the black chrome version.
I would first do a 'centering test' to see if all corners are equal at infinity. I'm not sure if it's luck but all the Leica lenses I've tested so far have been perfectly centered and well calibrated on my M bodies. I really appreciate the super tight tolerance from Leica and that's how it's possible to shoot 40MP using...Show more →

---------------------------------------------

zhangyue wrote:
I doubt BC version will be different. AFAIK, many people prefer BC the focus feeling to regular version as there are many complain about focus smoothness of certain copy of this lens due to complicated mechanical implementation of FLE. I would have bought a BC one if it had a focus tab. I like BC''s look more but tab is a must for M lens for me.

Mine behave exactly like Fred's copy. Based on my experience with Leica glasses, the copy variation is really minimal. Should you consider test it again, especially after f5.6, it should be really good...Show more →

The Zeiss Milvus versus Classic ZE/ZF/etc. line is the example I go to in my head when I think about how the mechanical design of the lens can affect coverage/IQ even though the optical design remained the same. For example, one lens that did not change the optical design between Classic to Milvus was the 100 Makro, but adapting the Milvus to the GFX shows more vignetting and the corners start to smear sooner. This doesn't mean this is what's happening with the regular Lux versus the BC, but I think it could be.

But I have a feeling that using a thick-rimmed filter on the lens may be an issue on mine. I know from comparing results with/without filters on the same full frame lens on the GFX that I have seen the point at which the image circle starts to smear happens sooner on the image where I used the filter. Again, this doesn't mean that's what's happening with my BC version, but certainly at 43mm versus 46mm for the same optics, the IQ could be affected on the BC.

Jun 29, 2021 at 04:56 PM

zhangyue
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

highdesertmesa wrote:
---------------------------------------------

The Zeiss Milvus versus Classic ZE/ZF/etc. line is the example I go to in my head when I think about how the mechanical design of the lens can affect coverage/IQ even though the optical design remained the same. For example, one lens that did not change the optical design between Classic to Milvus was the 100 Makro, but adapting the Milvus to the GFX shows more vignetting and the corners start to smear sooner. This doesn't mean this is what's happening with the regular Lux versus the BC, but I think it could be.

But I have a feeling that using...Show more →

I don't know that actually there might be optical difference for Zeiss Milvus and classic with same formula. They do change the coating though. That is really interesting.

I do notice with 135 APO, they changed focus mechanical parts: for Milvus, the focus ring will not move away from you during focus at close distance, Only front section will stretch out. For classic, focus ring section will move out during focus so does front section. I much prefer Milvus ergo in this regard.

Jun 29, 2021 at 05:04 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

zhangyue wrote:
I don't know that actually there might be optical difference for Zeiss Milvus and classic with same formula. They do change the coating though. That is really interesting.

I do notice with 135 APO, they changed focus mechanical parts: for Milvus, the focus ring will not move away from you during focus at close distance, Only front section will stretch out. For classic, focus ring section will move out during focus so does front section. I much prefer Milvus ergo in this regard.

Yes, newer/updated T* coating and weather sealing for Milvus. Some of the optical designs were completely redesigned for Milvus, but others were not.

Jun 29, 2021 at 05:22 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

Rendering Comparison: Leica 50/1.4 Lux vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton vs 50/2 APO

I've examined the rendering of these three lenses today, and here are my findings:

1) The Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton and the Leica 50/1.4 Lux produce very similar rendering across most distances I tested, ranging from 1m to 5m. When both are set to f/1.4, it's challenging to distinguish between them, although there are minor variations when inspected closely. The main differences lie in the slightly narrower angle of view from the Lux and slight variations in color rendering. In many cases, the Nokton exhibits slightly smoother rendering. While the Nokton can open to f/1.2, the difference from f/1.4 is not significant.

2) When compared to the Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO at maximum aperture, both the Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton and the Leica 50/1.4 Lux offer a more pleasing rendering when set to f/2. The transition zone is smoother, and there's more overall blur, despite all being set to f/2. Vignetting, including optical vignetting, is also more pronounced for the APO at maximum aperture, resulting in more pronounced cat-eye effects in specular highlights and deepening depth of field towards the edges.

3) While the Leica 50 Lux is equipped with FLE (floating lens elements), at medium distances (2m+), all three lenses exhibit comparable sharpness. This might change at very close distances, which I didn't test today.

4) The Leica 50/1.4 Lux demonstrates better correction for axial chromatic aberration (CA) compared to the Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton, even when both are set to f/1.4. The Voigtlander 50/2 APO boasts impeccable axial correction.

Here are some sample images taken at various distances for comparison:

4m distance
Leica 50/1.4 Lux @f/1.4 vs Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton @f/1.4