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Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting

  
 
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


Fred Miranda wrote:
The Voigtlander 35mm f/2 and 50mm f/2 APO lenses are fantastic on the high resolution Leica M bodies. Have you tried any of the TTArtisan lenses like their 50/0.95?


I havenít tried a TTArtisan. Having to calibrate them for the M rangefinder has given me pause, though I shouldnít be so lazy I suppose.

Agree about CV APOs on the M10-R, so canít imagine how they must look on the M10M given the insane central sharpness I saw on the Q2M. I still may flip at the last minute and get a 28 Summilix-M instead of the M10M. Leica Miami is doing 90% of retail value trade of Leica gear toward M10M (or the R) versus their regular 80% for other gear, so the M10M is a tough deal to pass up.



Jun 06, 2021 at 01:08 AM
RustyBug
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


airfrogusmc wrote:
I agree with almost everything except the words process was greater than the final product. For Adams the process was to get him to the final product. To consistently capture what he saw in his minds eye at the moment of exposure and getting the final print of what he saw at that moment he exposed the film.. That means controlling the entire process to get exactly what he envisioned the final print would be. That is the reason for the zone system.


Yes, he understood his pre-visualization and the interim steps to getting him where he wanted to be in the end.

In much regard, the process of the zone system, etc. is an algebra equation ... where you know the end, and have multiple variables on the other side of the equation to be figured out regarding their influence on the final product.

We have variation in available illumination, and in the subject's reflectance of that illumination (hue influenced also). That's the starting point. Combine that with the fact that not all areas of a given scene may be receiving the same levels of illumination and yes the "math" gets a bit trickier. So, knowing where / how much one might want to move things in post-capture, influences where one might want to start on the capture ... thus the "system" to aid with the math of working it backwards from the finish to the start.

All aspects of photographic luminance values are rooted in the physics and math of light. Folks don't want to do the actual math, so systems are developed f-stop, ISO, Zone, etc.

So, where lens A has different light transmission qualities from lens B (back to the OP) ... yes, the amount reaching the film plane may yield a different starting point. So, an adjustment in our capture exposure may need to be made for those variables, since there are limits (0-1) that can be reached, and the mathematic operations we have for achieving them as a final, may require more "finesse" than is typical.

The values we start with, and the manipulations to those values determine where we wind up. So, it's a math puzzle ... both conceptually, and literally. And within our realm of operations lies A + Bx + C^y = Z. Some manipulation aspects are linear (A), others are multiplication (Bx) and some are exponential (C^y). In certain regard, the processes we employ in our post-capture manipulations influence where we may want to start from, as well ... as well as how we approach / combine those operations.

For most folks, they find a combination that "works for them" and then pretty well stick to it. Sometimes, a given combination may turn out to not be ideal for everything. Since we don't all adhere to the same approach, we're gonna have variation in what works / doesn't work for different scenarios.

Long story, short ... more than one way to skin the cat.




Jun 06, 2021 at 07:21 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


But still the end result for Adams the final print was the most important part of the process. The zone system is just a tool to get to the final print.

When talking math in photography most everything is based on the inverse square law of light. But again that knowledge is just a tool to get to the end result, the print.



Jun 06, 2021 at 07:50 AM
RustyBug
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


airfrogusmc wrote:
But still the end result for Adams the final print was the most important part of the process. The zone system is just a tool to get to the final print.

When talking math in photography most everything is based on the inverse square law of light. But again that knowledge is just a tool to get to the end result, the print.


+1 ISL, et al.

Yup, the end goal is the end goal. Everything else is part of the journey to the destination. Which tool(s) / path(s) one chooses to get there is up to them.

So, back to the OP, using the "in camera math" to pull with might not be the best solution for every scenario. And, if you are gonna use the "in camera math", you might need to make an adjustment to accommodate the exponential factor. If the pull is going to be exponential, and you're already up against the thresholds, the power of exponential math can push things over the edge. May be better to save the math for post, where you have linear, multiply and exponential tools that can be % applied. Whereas a 1 stop x^2 adjustment is rather crude by comparison ... particularly if you're playing on the edge of thresholds to begin with.




Jun 06, 2021 at 08:59 AM
 


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Fred Miranda
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


highdesertmesa wrote:
I havenít tried a TTArtisan. Having to calibrate them for the M rangefinder has given me pause, though I shouldnít be so lazy I suppose.


That's the beauty of it though. You can calibrate the lens yourself (if needed) to be perfectly aligned with your body. I tried it and it was not a difficult process.
My current Voigtlander 40/1.2 is back focusing and I wish I could easily align it with the rangefinder.



Jun 06, 2021 at 09:45 AM
RustyBug
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


If it helps ... one might consider that different (chemical) developers worked at a different "rates", which would in turn render differently, but also would be adjusted / compensated by time & temp, etc.

So, where we have different mathematical operators applied to the base information, it essentially allows us to formulate our own "rates", much like using different developers / parameters in concert with our varying levels of capture information.



Jun 06, 2021 at 09:58 AM
genji
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's the beauty of it though. You can calibrate the lens yourself (if needed) to be perfectly aligned with your body. I tried it and it was not a difficult process.
My current Voigtlander 40/1.2 is back focusing and I wish I could easily align it with the rangefinder.


+1

I found the 7Artisans 28/1.4 very easy to calibrate while two copies of the TTArtisan 50/1.4 (I foolishly sold the first one) didn't require calibration at all.



Jun 06, 2021 at 07:59 PM
LBJ2
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Leica M10 and M10-P: Stay way from ISO 100 in contrasty lighting


highdesertmesa wrote:
I havenít tried a TTArtisan. Having to calibrate them for the M rangefinder has given me pause, though I shouldnít be so lazy I suppose.

Agree about CV APOs on the M10-R, so canít imagine how they must look on the M10M given the insane central sharpness I saw on the Q2M. I still may flip at the last minute and get a 28 Summilix-M instead of the M10M. Leica Miami is doing 90% of retail value trade of Leica gear toward M10M (or the R) versus their regular 80% for other gear, so the M10M is a tough deal to
...Show more

Okay. I didn't know about calibrating the TTArtisan lens, if needed. Had to look it up. I do like the option to be able to calibrate if needed. Interesting.

https://leicarumors.com/2020/07/20/how-to-calibrate-the-manual-focusing-of-the-ttartisan-50mm-f-0-95-lens-for-leica-m-mount-video.aspx/



Jun 07, 2021 at 05:24 AM
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