Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Trip Location Advice & Meet-ups | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
  

Archive 2021 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?

  
 
The Rat
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


js47 wrote

It is extremely busy! I just found the right spots. Will report later!


When you find yourself in Kanab, if you don't have a 4x4 high clearance vehicle, get in touch with Grand Staircase Discovery Tours and have them take you out to White Pocket. It's pretty awesome!



Apr 25, 2021 at 09:31 AM
Charlie San
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


Last night I had diner with a pilot friend who said he had flown to Mexican Mountain in Utah. He has flown there before several times and camped out. From the discussion I got the impression that it would be a great place to explore and photograph with varied rock formations and petroglyphs, a place relatively unknown, but not really secret. Close to Moab, by plane.


May 02, 2021 at 06:48 PM
GroovyGeek
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


Charlie San wrote:
Last night I had diner with a pilot friend who said he had flown to Mexican Mountain in Utah. He has flown there before several times and camped out. From the discussion I got the impression that it would be a great place to explore and photograph with varied rock formations and petroglyphs, a place relatively unknown, but not really secret. Close to Moab, by plane.


The Mexican Mountain Wilderness is on my todo list next time I get to the San Raphael Reef (unlikely this year or in 2022 given other commitments). At least from the sat maps the areas around CR-1010 and CR-1030 look more interesting from a photographic viewpoint - lots of bentonite in the area



May 03, 2021 at 01:00 AM
msoomro
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


following


Sep 18, 2023 at 12:44 PM
elkhornsun
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


Highly recommend the photo travel guides by Laurent Martres that cover the entire region.

https://www.martres.com/books



Sep 18, 2023 at 05:26 PM
js47
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


msoomro wrote:
following


Well I totally forgot to update this. Wrote a trip report and everything. Will paste it into a comment below shortly.



Sep 18, 2023 at 07:07 PM
js47
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


[looks like FM stripped the formatting]

Moab
Maps for Canyonlands (White Rim Road is on the Island in the Sky Map): https://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/maps.htm

Map for Arches: https://npmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/arches-national-park-map.pdf

Maps for surrounding BLM land: https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/BLMUtahMoabCamping.pdf
https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/uploads/recreation_utah_MoabAreaCampgrounds%26Restrictions.pdf


Trip was 19 Apr 2021 - 11 May 2021


Day 1 (Monday 19 Apr 2021): BLM Canyon Rims Recreation Area
Needles Overlook
Anticline Overlook
Minor Overlook
Canyonlands Overlook (high clearance 4wd and some off-road driving skill required)
Visited Wilson Arch on the drive back to Moab to evaluate sunrise potential. Could be a decent less-crowded option, but I never made it back there.

Saw very few other people today — less than 15. Views as good or better than those from Island in the Sky.


Day 2 (Tuesday): Canyonlands Island in the Sky and Arches
Mesa Arch sunrise
Island in the Sky overlooks, including hike to Grand View
Drove back to Moab via the Shafer Trail and Potash Road
Afternoon: overlooks at Arches, including the hikes around Balanced Rock, The Windows, Double Arch, and the Delicate Arch viewpoints.

There were around a hundred other people at Mesa Arch for sunrise but 95% of them left within 15 minutes of the actual sunrise! Guess they didn’t know it just gets better after that.

I made it to the other I-Sky overlooks before 9am so I did not run into many people (less than 20 I’d say).

The Shafer Trail and Potash Road were also very sparsely traveled — I saw less than 10 other people the whole way back to Moab, which took about 4 hours. Shafer was exciting and Potash offers some great views, though I might not recommend driving the entire length of it — it is rough and not super interesting beyond the horseshoe bend. The only thing you miss by turning around is the potash evaporation ponds. Best to turn around and drive back up the Shafer after the bend, I think.

Arches was another story — hundreds if not thousands of people there, all parking lots and overlooks were completely full.


Day 3 (Wednesday): Manti-La Sal National Forest and Arches
In the morning I drove the La Sal Mountains loop road as recommended by WestTexas here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1623071/0#15067878. The objective was to see alpine lakes such as Warner Lake and Oowah Lake, but the roads to them were still snowed in. Did get to see some dino tracks though!
Visited the Fisher Towers on the way back to Moab then drove to the Eye of the Whale Arch in Arches NP (requires high clearance 4wd but was not particularly challenging).
In the afternoon I did the hike out to Delicate Arch.

I saw less than 5 other people in the La Sals, and only 2 other people at the Eye of the Whale (even though the rest of the park was packed that day). Eye of the Whale was one of the highlights of my week! Highly recommend. I’d probably elect to continue driving north to Tower Arch next time, but ran out of time today.

There were a decent number of people at Delicate Arch, but fewer than I was expecting given past experiences. Wasn’t a problem getting people-free photos, just had to wait a few minutes between shots and be quick on the shutter.


Day 4 (Thursday): Dead Horse Point SP, Island in the Sky, Corona Arch
Sunrise at Dead Horse Point SP. Unfortunately the clouds did not cooperate this morning but it was an awesome location for sure. This is the point on my trip where I remembered I had ND grads in my backpack….
Got a White Rim Trail day permit from the Island in the Sky visitor center at 8:00am when they start handing them out, then drove the Shafer Trail into the White Rim as far as Washer Woman Arch before turning back. Did not go down the Lathrop Canyon Road as I was short on time and did not want to get stuck, but in hindsight I am sure it would have been fine and a worthwhile spur! Drove back up to I-Sky via Shafer and returned to Moab.
In the afternoon we drove over to Corona/Bowtie Arch and were not disappointed. Corona easily rivals Delicate and the hike was much easier. And there were far fewer people.

There were two other people at Dead Horse that morning, both photographers.

Saw maybe ten other people all day on the Shafer and White Rim Trails. The overlooks on the White Rim are great! Largely similar to what you get from Potash Road (up to the bend and excluding Musselman Arch, of course — that is unique). Day use backcountry permits are available here for $6, or free at the visitor center starting at 8am (but then you can’t start with sunrise): https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251904

Despite the packed parking lot for Corona Arch (we got the last parking space), there were only about ten other people at the arch itself. Not sure where everyone was.


Day 5 (Friday): Dead Horse Point SP, Island in the Sky, Arches
Back to Dead Horse for another sunrise. Was pretty good this time!
Got another White Rim permit at 8:00am. This time drove the opposite direction, starting on the Horsethief Trail/Mineral Canyon Road. Drove to Moses and Zeus, and then to near Candlestick Camp before turning around. Would not recommend the section past Hardscrabble Camp without a proper 4wd vehicle with low range. I had no problems in my Land Cruiser with 3-season old snow tires.
In the evening we went to Skyline Arch and then attempted to get to Tower Arch but the road was just too rough. We turned around about 200 feet from the end of the difficult section, just did not want to risk damage. Need a high clearance 4wd here for sure, with either a big lift or rock sliders or both. I’d still like to get out to Tower Arch one day but next time I will try to get there via the road to Eye of the Whale rather than via this perceived shortcut!


Day 6 (Saturday): Canyonlands Needles District and Island in the Sky
We hiked a few trails in the Needles and then drove out to the Colorado River (Confluence) Overlook. Surprisingly crowded at all trailheads, but only saw two other people at the overlook (high clearance 4wd required).
Finished the day at I-Sky, revisiting Mesa Arch (and noticing for the first time that Washer Woman was visible from there!), Candlestick Tower Overlook, and sunset at the Holeman Spring Canyon Overlook. These overlooks are marked on the park map but not at the pullouts so I had never been before!

Next time in Canyonlands I’d like to explore the Needles District off-road (the on-road portions are underwhelming compared to I-Sky), I’d like to complete the White Rim Road drive (ideally camping one night, but it should be doable in a single long day), and I would very much like to get out to the Maze district (but this requires approaching from the west from UT24 just north of Hanksville). While down there I’d check out the Horseshoe Canyon unit, which is approached from the north at Green River.

In terms of camping near Moab, your best bet is BLM land where you are pretty much allowed to plop wherever you want. Camping within the parks themselves is impossible unless you reserve 6 months in advance. I have slept at Canyon Rims Recreation Area (south of Moab on US191) and also off Island in the Sky Rd before entering the NP. There is also the Manti-La Sal National Forest not too far away.


Day 7 (Sunday): Drive from Moab to Escalante, Capitol Reef NP
Sunrise at Dead Horse Point
Drove through Capitol Reef NP and Dixie NF on the way to Escalante — very scenic drive. Capitol Reef was extremely busy.




Escalante
Map of BLM Land: https://www.blm.gov/sites/default/files/documents/files/BLMUtahGrandStaircaseEscalanteNationalMonumentTravelMap.pdf


Day 1 (Monday): Devil’s Garden and Cosmic Eye
Devil’s Garden was interesting to walk around for about an hour and I saw zero other people. Kind of creepy.
Cosmic Eye was hands down one of the most interesting things I have ever seen — and also, zero other people there. Fun driving there in the sand. Reschedule if it is a windy day.


Day 2 (Tuesday): HWY12 and Calf Creek Falls
Rainy day. Plan was to take the loop from Highway 12 onto the USFS Hell’s Backbone dirt road, but it started blizzarding the second I left the pavement. Plus I was in a cloud so couldn’t see anything anyway. Bailed on that and just returned back to Escalante the way I came on hwy12.
Did the 7.5 mile round trip hike to Calf Creek Falls. Pretty good falls! Not many people. Smelled suspiciously like the Hudson River.


Day 3 (Wednesday): Bryce NP
This was my first time at Bryce and was absolutely blown away. Sunrise at Inspiration Point. Fairly crowded, probably about 20 other people there. Note there are 3 overlooks at Inspiration Pt— you want to be at the highest one! Very snowy this morning.
Checked out all the viewpoints on the park road. Got progressively busier until around 10-11am when there were no more parking spots left in any of the lots.
Hiked the “Figure-8” combination trail from Sunset Point to Sunrise Point. The Peekaboo Loop was pretty quiet but the other parts of the trail were busy.


Day 4: Phipps Arch, Cedar Wash Arch, Covered Wagon Bridge, and Peekaboo and Spooky slot canyons
Phipps was crawling with people but instead of physically going to the arch I went to an overlook across the canyon (no people on my trail at all). Next time I’d try to go to the arch itself, but the way I went had some super secret cave paintings that are in really good shape since no one ever goes down that way. Locals are very protective and told me not to tell anyone where they are.
Cedar Wash Arch and Covered Wagon Bridge were both deserted. You’ll want 4wd for Cedar Wash Arch — deep sand. Again I had no problems with my balding snow tires.
Peekaboo and Spooky were excellent! My first slot canyons and they did not disappoint. There were several people there but I would not say it was crowded. Recommend a wide lens, I could not fit everything I wanted at 27mm equivalent.


Day 5: Capitol Reef via Burr Trail
This was pretty cool but honestly my time probably would have been better spent going back to Bryce.


Day 6: Cosmic Eye and Bryce again
Really windy at the Eye this time. Very unpleasant!


Day 7: Bryce sunrise and drive to Kanab
No snow at Bryce this time.


There should be plenty of BLM land around here for camping. Next time I’d like to drive all the way out to Hole in the Rock. There are also tons of other slot canyons to explore.

Next time I am in the area I’d like to explore Bears Ears/Indian Creek/Dark Canyon/Natural Bridges/Valley of the Gods, Monument Valley, and the Grand Canyon North Rim (in addition to anything previously mentioned).




Kanab
Day 1: Sunrise at Coral Pink Sand Dunes SP, Peekaboo Slot Canyon
- Arrived before 6am but because the dunes are in a small canyon, nothing really interesting happened until about 8am.
- In the afternoon drove to Peekaboo slot canyon. Note this requires driving on a deep sandy road, but my stock 1999 Land Cruiser did it with no issues. Did reduce tire pressure to 20psi and lock the center differential (aka “put it into 4wd”). High clearance and 4wd (NOT awd — they are not the same thing) are definitely required. According to the park rangers, this road is as bad as it gets near Kanab. The Kanab Peekaboo is a lot less interesting than the Escalante Peekaboo.

Day 2: White Pocket
- Really cool spot and completely empty before 11am. After that the tour groups stared pouring in and by the time we left around 1 there were over 20 cars in the parking lot. Note this requires about 5 miles of sand driving, but it also was no problem in my car. In fact, it was a lot easier than the road to Peekaboo. High clearance definitely required, 4wd probably required though you *might* be ok with AWD here depending on conditions. Thanks to @The Rat for the recommendation!

Day 3: Rock climbing with some friends near St. George

Day 4: THE WAVE
- Won the in-person lottery — one of 4 groups chosen for today out of 79 applicants. Ranger said the win-rate is approximately 4% circa 2021 (this was our 4th day signing up for the lottery). The ranger recommendation of 4 liters of water per person is no joke — I drank over 7 liters today, plus ate most of a watermelon. I don’t need to tell you that this was an amazing spot!

Day 5: Recovery from yesterday, and the “White Wave”
- The road to White Wave starts off the same as for Peekaboo canyon, but instead of turning left onto the wash continue straight. This is pretty serious deep sand — high clearance 4wd and some off-road skill definitely required. Thanks to @The Rat for the recommendation!

Day 6: Great Chamber, Campsite over Glen/Grand Canyon, and Horseshoe Bend/Glen Canyon Dam
- Great Chamber was very cool and not crowded. Deep sand road but not as bad as Peekaboo or White Pocket, though high clearance 4wd for sure still required. Big thanks to @jeremywilburn for the recommendation!
- Horseshoe Bend was like Times Square! Super crowded. The only thing outnumbering the people were the flies!
- We camped on BLM land near “Ten Mile Rock” which is perched right on the edge of the magnificent Marble Canyon, which is technically now part of Grand Canyon NP.

Day 7: Valley of Fire SP
- Honestly pretty underwhelming after Kanab, though the “Fire Wave” was quite nice. No crowds.

Day 8: Cedar Breaks NM
- Like a mini Bryce Canyon, definitely worth a visit. This is the “top step” of the Grand Staircase.

Edited on Sep 21, 2023 at 06:41 AM · View previous versions



Sep 18, 2023 at 07:11 PM
Greyscale71
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


Just spent 5days in Moab. Would need a Lifetime to see it all. Now in Richfield for 4days.


Sep 18, 2023 at 09:53 PM
AZHeaven
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


js47 wrote:
I will be spending the next month in southern Utah and was wondering if the collective FM photo hive mind has any suggestions for great spots!

I’ll be in Moab for a week (Arches/Canyonlands/mountains), Escalante for a week (Capitol Reef/Grand Staircase/Bryce/Glenn Canyon?), Kanab for a week (Bryce/Zion/Capitol Reef/Grand Canyon North Rim?), and then I have a fourth week still TBD.

Ideally, I am looking for less trafficked spots due to covid (and also the insane crowds here!). I have a high clearance 4x4 vehicle (old land cruiser) so light/moderate off-road is no problem.

Thanks in advance.


I started watching the PBS show Outside Beyond The Lens. The first season they drove Cottonwood Canyon Rd from just outside Big Water, UT to Kodachrome Basin State Park. I drove this with my son in law 2 years ago and was blown away by the beauty of this 47 mile drive. Season 2 they drove UT 12 to Capitol Reef. I quote Jeff the lead guy of the show. "The 2 hour drive to Capitol Reef NP took us 6 hours. Everywhere there were places to stop to take photos!"

So I would say Cottonwood Canyon Rd. But check the road conditions. It's 40 miles plus of dirt roads. We were lucky as they had just graded it. Also, 10 miles from Kodachrome Basin is Grosvenor's Arch you can check out.

Please note. The North Rim visitor center, restuarants, etc. close for the winter on October 15th. The North Rim is my favorite by far due to lack of crowds vs the South Rim. Too bad i'm a 6+ hour drive away vs 2 for the South Rim!



Sep 19, 2023 at 07:01 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


AZHeaven wrote:
...II would say Cottonwood Canyon Rd. But check the road conditions. It's 40 miles plus of dirt roads. We were lucky as they had just graded it. Also, 10 miles from Kodachrome Basin is Grosvenor's Arch you can check out.


Don't try the complete through-drive on Cottonwood if it has rained or if rain is expected. There can be drive-ending "issues."

The North Rim visitor center, restuarants, etc. close for the winter on October 15th.

I have a funny story about that... ;-)



Edited on Sep 19, 2023 at 10:10 AM · View previous versions



Sep 19, 2023 at 09:34 AM
msoomro
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


@js47 Great write up and nice portfolio


Sep 19, 2023 at 09:49 AM
AZHeaven
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Don't try the complete through-drive on Cottonwood if it has rained or if rain is expected. There can be drive-ending "issues."

I have a funny story about that... ;-)



My son in law has a Subaru Outback. Tricked out for off roading. There were a couple of places of concern on Cottonwood Canyon Rd. One that I remember was about half way ish through we had to climb a hill of soft dirt. We did of course make it!

And please!! Do tell the funny story!



Sep 20, 2023 at 06:35 AM
js47
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


AZHeaven wrote:
My son in law has a Subaru Outback. Tricked out for off roading.


Cottonwood Canyon Rd looks pretty tame in the dry, but it should be noted for people reading this who may not know any better: no matter how tricked out someone's Subaru is, it will never be a 4x4/4wd vehicle. Thinking otherwise can land you in trouble out there very quickly.

AWD ≠ 4WD. In addition to the more obvious ground clearance issues.



Sep 21, 2023 at 05:59 AM
js47
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


msoomro wrote:
@js47 Great write up and nice portfolio


Thanks a lot, I appreciate that!

I've just noticed that the report I posted was incomplete and did not include our week in Kanab. I'll paste that below.


Kanab
Day 1: Sunrise at Coral Pink Sand Dunes SP, Peekaboo Slot Canyon
- Arrived before 6am but because the dunes are in a small canyon, nothing really interesting happened until about 8am.
- In the afternoon drove to Peekaboo slot canyon. Note this requires driving on a deep sandy road, but my stock 1999 Land Cruiser did it with no issues. Did reduce tire pressure to 20psi and lock the center differential (aka “put it into 4wd”). High clearance and 4wd (NOT awd — they are not the same thing) are definitely required. According to the park rangers I spoke with, this road is as bad as it gets near Kanab. The Kanab Peekaboo is a lot less interesting than the Escalante Peekaboo.

Day 2: White Pocket
- Really cool spot and completely empty before 11am. After that the tour groups stared pouring in and by the time we left around 1 there were over 20 cars in the parking lot. Note this requires about 5 miles of sand driving, but it also was no problem in my car. In fact, it was a lot easier than the road to Peekaboo. High clearance definitely required, 4wd probably required though you *might* be ok with AWD here depending on conditions. Thanks to @The Rat for the recommendation!

Day 3: Rock climbing with some friends near St. George

Day 4: THE WAVE
- Won the in-person lottery — one of 4 groups chosen for today out of 79 applicants. Ranger said the win-rate is approximately 4% circa 2021 (this was our 4th day signing up for the lottery). The ranger recommendation of 4 liters of water per person is no joke — I drank over 7 liters today, plus ate most of a watermelon. I don’t need to tell you that this was an amazing spot!

Day 5: Recovery from yesterday, and the “White Wave”
- The road to White Wave starts off the same as for Peekaboo canyon, but instead of turning left onto the wash continue straight. This is pretty serious deep sand — high clearance 4wd and some off-road skill definitely required.

Day 6: Great Chamber, Campsite over Glen/Grand Canyon, and Horseshoe Bend/Glen Canyon Dam
- Great Chamber was very cool and not crowded. Deep sand road but not as bad as Peekaboo or White Pocket, though high clearance 4wd for sure still required. Big thanks to @jeremywilburn for the recommendation!
- Horseshoe Bend was like Times Square! Super crowded. The only thing outnumbering the people were the flies!
- We camped on BLM land near “Ten Mile Rock” which is perched right on the edge of the magnificent Marble Canyon, which is technically now part of Grand Canyon NP.

Day 7: Valley of Fire SP
- Honestly pretty underwhelming after Kanab, though the “Fire Wave” was quite nice. No crowds.

Day 8: Cedar Breaks NM
- Like a mini Bryce Canyon, definitely worth a visit. This is the “top step” of the Grand Staircase.



Sep 21, 2023 at 06:39 AM
AZHeaven
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


js47 wrote:
Cottonwood Canyon Rd looks pretty tame in the dry, but it should be noted for people reading this who may not know any better: no matter how tricked out someone's Subaru is, it will never be a 4x4/4wd vehicle. Thinking otherwise can land you in trouble out there very quickly.

AWD ≠ 4WD. In addition to the more obvious ground clearance issues.


We were lucky in many ways. It hadn't rained in quite a while so Cottonwood Canyon Rd. was dry the entire way. Plus they had just graded it.

As for my son in laws Subaru Outback? It is tricked out for off road travel. Special off road tires. 2 inch lifts on top of that to give it a nice clearence, I'm guessing 15 inchs plus of clearence. Steel bars all around the base and front. Stainless steel or aluminum protection underneath to help protect the vitals under the car. Satellite GPS. To name some. You don't need a Jeep for everything off road. I'd trust my son in laws Subaru over any other 4x4.



Sep 24, 2023 at 07:09 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


AZHeaven wrote:
We were lucky in many ways. It hadn't rained in quite a while so Cottonwood Canyon Rd. was dry the entire way. Plus they had just graded it.

As for my son in laws Subaru Outback? It is tricked out for off road travel. Special off road tires. 2 inch lifts on top of that to give it a nice clearence, I'm guessing 15 inchs plus of clearence. Steel bars all around the base and front. Stainless steel or aluminum protection underneath to help protect the vitals under the car. Satellite GPS. To name some. You don't need a Jeep for
...Show more

I drive something a bit more heavy-duty these days, but I previously had two Subaru Outbacks. I drove that route in one of them (and I've been over it several times in various vehicles) and in normal conditions an Outback will have no problems at all with Cottonwood Canyon. It isn't like this is a remote single-track going over super-steep and difficult terrain. It is an unpaved _road_.

Things that could get you into trouble on that route are more about the conditions and your experience than about the vehicle.

If it has been raining more than a tiny bit — or if rain is likely — go somewhere else. The surface in places is extremely slippery when wet and any vehicle, even a " 4x4/4wd vehicle," is gong to have some real issues. Beyond that, I think it is more about knowing your abilities (and having sufficient of them) to avoid doing dumb stuff.

Oh, and not driving like you see in TV ads for AWD and 4WD vehicles — crashing over terrain at high speeds, running straight through streams without caution, flying over big bumps, sliding through gravelly turns. Slow, steady, careful, conservative driving gets you, your camera gear, and your vehicle there and back in one piece.

It is true that an Outback is not a tricked-out jeep, a new Bronco, an FJ, or any number of other truckish vehicles with old-school
4WD. But in the hands of a skillful and experienced driver, an Outback can go just about anywhere that most people in this forum are likely to go.

I love what I drive now, but I also miss my Outbacks pretty often!


Edited on Sep 25, 2023 at 08:12 AM · View previous versions



Sep 24, 2023 at 09:09 AM
msoomro
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


@dan. So you dont recommend us drive like a tv ad. Thats what inspired me to buy 4x4. Haha. Just joking. what r u driving now after outback?

And thanks for the valuable nuggets as always,



Sep 24, 2023 at 09:26 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


msoomro wrote:
@dan. So you dont recommend us drive like a tv ad. Thats what inspired me to buy 4x4. Haha. Just joking. what r u driving now after outback?

And thanks for the valuable nuggets as always,


For the last... God Lord, has it been almost a decade!?... I have been using a Toyota 4Runner Trail for that kind of stuff. It has been super reliable and gets me everywhere I want to go... and I can sleep in the back. (Plus the interior is decent enough that my wife doesn't mind driving it.)

(We pair a "Bigmobile" like the 4Runner with something small with better mileage. That other vehicle is now a Tesla 3.)

For maybe 5%-10% of what I do, the 4Runner gives me some capabilities that the Outbacks couldn't quite match. For one thing, bigger wheels and beefier tires are an easier option. Back when I had the Outbacks it wasn't really practical to put the kinds of tires on them that I would have preferred, and I drove enough on backcountry roads that I felt that I wanted something more sturdy.

On the other hand, for the majority of my driving the Outbacks were way more comfortable and got much better gas mileage. I regularly got a bit more than 30MPG from them, while with the 4Runner I'm lucky to get 20+ on long drives.

As with cameras and just about everything in life, there are trade-offs...

One more thing. I understand the differences between "AWD" and "4WD," at least in the context in which they are usually mentioned. One thing that trips folks up though is that while "real 4WD" (with locking hubs and a low gear range, etc.) is a meaningful thing to hard-core off-roaders... the great majority of people doing things like driving Cottonwood Canyon will be absolutely fine with "AWD" vehicles.

OK, one more one more thing: I understand that the "serious" off-road folks, at least many of them, are pretty resistant to considering the possibility that vehicles other than what they use will work pretty well. And some of then certainly do driving in places and in ways that most photographers won't... and they may well need such vehicles.

:-)

YMMV.



Sep 24, 2023 at 11:38 AM
AZHeaven
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


gdanmitchell wrote:
I drive something a bit more heavy-duty these days, but I previously had two Subaru Outbacks. I drove that route in one of them (and I've been over it several times in various vehicles) and in normal conditions an Outback will have no problems at all with Cottonwood Canyon. It isn't like this is a remote single-track going over super-steep and difficult terrain. It is an unpaved _road_.

Things that could get you into trouble on that route are more about the conditions and your experience than about the vehicle.

If it has been raining more than a tiny bit — or
...Show more

My comment about jeeps was kind of a dig to actual commercial jeeps. We drove Schnebly Hill Rd. from Sedona to the I-17 outside of Flagstaff. We passed no less than 6 Pink Jeep tour jeeps and a couple of other tour jeeps sitting on the side of the road broken down.
Now in all honesty we didn't get away unscathed! In the rough parts I'm out trying to guide my son in law around large rocks in the road, which there are many places on this road! Anyway in one area that had very little room for error he slipped off a rock which dispite plates under the car pushed the muffler pipe into the drive shaft. All was ok after we called an off road mechanic and pry barred the pipe away. This of course happened on Labor Day Sunday!



Sep 25, 2023 at 06:45 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Favorite/Secret Spots in Southern Utah and Moab?


AZHeaven wrote:
My comment about jeeps was kind of a dig to actual commercial jeeps. We drove Schnebly Hill Rd. from Sedona to the I-17 outside of Flagstaff. We passed no less than 6 Pink Jeep tour jeeps and a couple of other tour jeeps sitting on the side of the road broken down.
Now in all honesty we didn't get away unscathed! In the rough parts I'm out trying to guide my son in law around large rocks in the road, which there are many places on this road! Anyway in one area that had very little room for error he
...Show more

I hear you. I see them all the time in DEVA.

I know that some pretty competent drivers rent them since they. are flying in rather than driving in their own vehicles, but there are also folks without much experience renting them for fun and driving them in places and ways that are... not so great.

Your point about not getting away unscathed is an important reminder that there are risks even for folks who do have experience driving such vehicles in such places and — again! — that slow and careful driving is way smarter than the thrill-seeking speed that a few employ. As you also mention ("little room for error") the margin between getting through in good shape and running into trip-ending (or at least expensive damage) is smaller out there.



Sep 25, 2023 at 08:17 AM
1      
2
       3       end




FM Forums | Trip Location Advice & Meet-ups | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.