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Archive 2021 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

biodan
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

While I've had the Olympus 150-400 for about 3-weeks, I haven't spent much time shooting with it (that work thing). A few days ago, I got my Sony A1 so today I went to a local park with boring ducks. After an hr, the weight difference is really noticeable. Also, the Sony 200-600 becomes a F9 lens when the 1.4x is attached while the 150-400 with the 1.25x engaged becomes a F5.6 lens so I think both rigs and systems will have their use-cases. Particularly if the rumored high-end/pixel OMD body appears in the near future. But today, the A1's 50 Mpixels certainly compensates for the 'short' 200-600+1.4x.

http://biodan.org/pix25/Bidwell/Bidwell.html

Mar 14, 2021 at 01:59 AM

biodan
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

Pictures from my first 150-400 outing at Wavecrest. (this link is also at the bottom of the above link)

http://biodan.org/pix24/olympus150400/Oly150-400_test1.html

Also, about 2 yrs ago, I compared the A9+600/F4 with the E-M1X+300/F4 - both with 2x extenders

http://biodan.org/pix25/compare1200mm.html

Mar 14, 2021 at 02:07 AM

mitesh
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

Appreciate the effort to do the comparisons and post them, but I am finding it hard to draw any conclusions because of the deep crops and heat shimmers affecting some of the images.

Mar 14, 2021 at 07:05 PM

Robin Smith
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

EMIX shots look a lot sharper to me.

Mar 15, 2021 at 09:34 AM

biodan
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

Mitesh, point taken. I think these indoor pics of stuffed birds show the obvious - the cropping the A1's 50MP sensor output combined with the 200-600 + 1.4x slightly exceeds the magnification of the E-M1X with the 150-400 with the 1.25x TC engaged (the gray eye is from the M1X image). All shots were taken at a fixed 1/50 sec, auto-ISO and on a tripod. However, note the difference in ISO and aperture (2000 vs 5000 and F5.6 vs F9).

The first pic below is a montage of full-sized images, resized to fit FM specs. The 2nd pic is a difference image of the Sony 840mm region atop the M1X image in exclusion mode. The details are on this web page.

http://biodan.org/misc/compareA1M1X/Resize.html

Montage of full images (resized)

Difference image of Sony 840mm image and 150-400 1000mm-equivalent image

Edited on Mar 16, 2021 at 12:34 AM · View previous versions

Mar 15, 2021 at 09:54 PM

biodan
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

These are the regions-of-interest, 100% crops pasted into a new image and then resized to 1800pix horizontal to fit FM specs.

Mar 15, 2021 at 10:30 PM

lbloom
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

Nice birds ^.

Mar 15, 2021 at 10:52 PM

biodan
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

After realizing that shooting indoor, stuffed birds, I can evaluate the use of an external 1.4x (560mm, 1120mm-equivalent) and combining the external 1.4x and the internal 1.2x extender (700mm, 1400mm-equivalent).

In the 3rd image, it appears that the Olympus 560mm image size is nearly equivalent to the Sony 840mm image - but with better ISO (iso4000 vs 5000) and aperture (7.1 vs 9)

Resized full images

Region-of-interest images from the Sony A1+200-600+1.4x or the Olympus 150-400 with extenders

Difference between A1+200-600+1.4x (840) vs Olympus 150-400+1.4x (560mm)

Mar 16, 2021 at 12:33 AM

galenapass
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

biodan wrote:
After realizing that shooting indoor, stuffed birds, I can evaluate the use of an external 1.4x (560mm, 1120mm-equivalent) and combining the external 1.4x and the internal 1.2x extender (700mm, 1400mm-equivalent).

In the 3rd image, it appears that the Olympus 560mm image size is nearly equivalent to the Sony 840mm image - but with better ISO (iso4000 vs 5000) and aperture (7.1 vs 9)

Plug some of your parameters into this FM pixels per duck spreadsheet.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1635612

Then you can see at least what is theoretically expected. The final pixels per duck across sensor formats is highly dependent on effective focal length and the sensor pixel density. But, so far what you have shown is that the new 150-400 makes a good case for m43 and wildlife shooting. Thanks for the effort.

[Edit] - "biodan", why does that sound so familiar to me? Are you in the biotech industry?

Mar 16, 2021 at 01:07 PM

biodan
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

[Edit] - "biodan", why does that sound so familiar to me? Are you in the biotech industry?

Yes, originally biotech, now big Pharma. I've been through multiple re-structurings and buyouts over 6 companies.
Trained as a molecular/cell biologist, but have been doing bioinformatics/computational biology for the last 24yrs.

Carrying big 600mm lenses is getting less comfortable with each yr. And I've been known to carry the 600/F4, 200-600 and 2 tripods on short day hikes. Thats where the F4.5 of the Olympus 150-400 may really make a difference. I would certainly welcome more pixels in a new m4/3 body tho. And with Topaz DeNoiseAI, I don't worry so much about shooting at 6400 in m4/3.

Edit- I've entered the numbers into the spreadsheet. I've messaged the owner of the file, 'hillg' but did a screenshot below. BTW, the E-M1X+150-400 is 6.5lb while the A1+grip+200-600+1.4x is 8lb (hand-scale)

Horizontal Pixels Per Duck

Mar 16, 2021 at 01:26 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

biodan wrote:
Yes, originally biotech, now big Pharma. I've been through multiple re-structurings and buyouts over 6 companies.
Trained as a molecular/cell biologist, but have been doing bioinformatics/computational biology for the last 24yrs.

Carrying big 600mm lenses is getting less comfortable with each yr. And I've been known to carry the 600/F4, 200-600 and 2 tripods on short day hikes. Thats where the F4.5 of the Olympus 150-400 may really make a difference. I would certainly welcome more pixels in a new m4/3 body tho. And with Topaz DeNoiseAI, I don't worry so much about shooting at 6400 in m4/3.

Edit- I've entered the...Show more →

We probably crossed paths in "real life" or maybe on a stock investment board. I went from big pharma (Merck and Amgen) to biotech, and then to my own consulting company. Trained as a medicinal chemist but now doing work modeling pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics. I just moved away from m43 to Sony, but considering buying back some Oly gear for travel. I have a condo in San Jose Costa Rica, and a lot of my trips involve flying down to home base then jumping on small planes to get to various locations in CR. The Sony 600mm is light lens for what it is, but not as light as the 150-400. Your comparisons have certainly caught my attention.

Mar 16, 2021 at 02:42 PM

Geoff D F
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

Interesting comparison. Very expensive Sony body, with not so expensive Sony lens verses a not so expensive (anymore) Olympus body and a very expensive Olympus lens.

I guess if one has money to burn and no weight constraint the Sony 600 f4 would probably win the day, but the Oly 150-400 might appeal to cashed-up weaklings

Mar 16, 2021 at 10:30 PM

molson
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

Geoff D F wrote:
I guess if one has money to burn and no weight constraint the Sony 600 f4 would probably win the day, but the Oly 150-400 might appeal to cashed-up weaklings

.

Or people who don't want to use a tripod - the Olympus system has (at least) a 3 or 4 stop advantage over Sony in image stabilization performance.

Mar 17, 2021 at 09:29 AM

visualpauses
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

I’m often confused when IS is used in connection with wildlife (I’m assuming the discussion is for wildlife because we are comparing long FL lenses) because I usually attempt wildlife images only if the subject is in motion.

Does the IS matter for cases when the subject is moving ( eg tigers walking, birds flying or landing, whales breaching, monkeys dangling) ?

molson wrote:
Or people who don't want to use a tripod - the Olympus system has (at least) a 3 or 4 stop advantage over Sony in image stabilization performance.

Mar 17, 2021 at 02:09 PM

JasonTheBirder
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

visualpauses wrote:
I’m often confused when IS is used in connection with wildlife (I’m assuming the discussion is for wildlife because we are comparing long FL lenses) because I usually attempt wildlife images only if the subject is in motion.

Does the IS matter for cases when the subject is moving ( eg tigers walking, birds flying or landing, whales breaching, monkeys dangling) ?

A little for stabilizing the viewfinder and keeping video less jittery. And you can still add a bit of motion blur in addition to the blur from the animal's movement, so there may be a very small improvement. But generally, if the animal is moving, you need a high shutter speed. E.g. walking bird, about 1/600th or higher.

Mar 17, 2021 at 03:18 PM

molson
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

visualpauses wrote:
I’m often confused when IS is used in connection with wildlife (I’m assuming the discussion is for wildlife because we are comparing long FL lenses) because I usually attempt wildlife images only if the subject is in motion.

Does the IS matter for cases when the subject is moving ( eg tigers walking, birds flying or landing, whales breaching, monkeys dangling) ?

It depends if you are anticipating the animal's behaviour and capturing the "decisive moment", or just spraying and praying that you capture a good pose...

Mar 17, 2021 at 04:30 PM

Paul_100A
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

molson wrote:
It depends if you are anticipating the animal's behaviour and capturing the "decisive moment", or just spraying and praying that you capture a good pose...

i am always anticipating the animal's behavior...i'm 100% correct all of the time in that i anticipate that the animal is going to leave sooner or later and most often it is sooner.
i prefer to capture a useable image before the animal exits the area.
i leave IBIS on (lens and body) at all times unless i am specifically shooting a session of BIFs in good light.
-i shoot bursts ("spray and pray" if you like) and i use Auto-ISO
my minimum shutter speed setting for Auto-ISO is 1/250.
when light levels are low enough to warrant the camera using 1/250...not having IBIS/IS on results in far less keepers to choose from.
as has already been mentioned I also prefer the viewfinder to be steady when looking through it so...another reason for IBIS/IS on at all times.
i do not use tripods/monopods and i use the 4/300 with either of the MCs.

Mar 18, 2021 at 11:26 AM

biodan
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

More 150-400/F4.5 and 200-600/F5.6-6.3 comparisons. I'm still getting used to both systems, more ducks at Bidwell Park http://www.biodan.org/pix25/Bidwell/bifBidwell.html. (2200 pixels wide, not friendly to the recommended FM format)

Apr 12, 2021 at 08:11 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

Paul_100A wrote:
i am always anticipating the animal's behavior...i'm 100% correct all of the time in that i anticipate that the animal is going to leave sooner or later and most often it is sooner.

Agreed. The kicker of course is that nobody can capture those moments when action suddenly occurs 100% of the time,even when they anticipated it is going to happen. Anyone claiming they can is dislusional.

A couple of examples:

1. You want to capture the baseball crossing over the plate. No matter how much you anticipate, using single shot, you will miss that instant 99% of the time. The same photographer using spray and pray will have much better odds, but still miss most pitches. A video photographer will capture that moment 100% of the time. The more frames per second you shoot that scenario, the better the odds of capturing that moment.

Anyone who can't grasp that concept should study math and physics.

2. You anticipate an animal or something is about to move. No matter how good you are at anticipating, there is a reaction time between the start of that movement and when you press the shutter button. During that short reaction time, you miss the initial action. Anyone who can't grasp that concept should learn why a photographer using Pro Capture will have far more success at capturing those first movements.

Apr 14, 2021 at 02:45 PM

biodan
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · E-M1X+150-400 and Sony A1+200-600

FYI, I did a bokeh comparison test under controlled, indoor conditions. As expected at F4.5 the m43 rig's DOF is similar to the F9 of the full-frame setup with the 200-600 with 1.4x.

EDIT: However, the shutter speed was 1/10 with the 200-600 vs 1/40 sec for the 150-200 rig. Granted, while ISO5000 may not be equivalent between the Sony and Olympus bodies, the faster shutter speed would be welcome under dim light.

Apr 14, 2021 at 06:01 PM

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