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Archive 2021 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Alex Phan
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

https://youtu.be/s-QRQMRcjZ0

Mar 10, 2021 at 05:28 PM

Vetteman
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Nice! Thanks for posting

Mar 10, 2021 at 05:39 PM

rji2goleez
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

I've been following you Alex here and on facebook with CIZ. It's very useful to extend the reach of our long Sony telephotos. I just purchased a Sigma 90/2.8 and thought, hmmm, how well does it work with this lens. Imagine having a reach of 270mm (90mm x 1.5 APS-C x CIZ 2.0) in a lens that is only 2-3" long. Amazing!

Full Frame 90mm

APS-C mode with CIZ 2.0

Mar 27, 2022 at 07:17 AM

mitesh
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

rji2goleez wrote:
I've been following you Alex here and on facebook with CIZ. It's very useful to extend the reach of our long Sony telephotos. I just purchased a Sigma 90/2.8 and thought, hmmm, how well does it work with this lens. Imagine having a reach of 270mm (90mm x 1.5 APS-C x CIZ 2.0) in a lens that is only 2-3" long. Amazing!

How about 600 GM + 2x TC + APS-C mode + 2x CIZ for an AOV equivalent to 3600mm? Not the clearest, sharpest shot ever due to atmospherics, but it’s better than no shot at all.

Mar 27, 2022 at 07:51 AM

rji2goleez
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

^ Yes, I need to try that on my 600 as well. Amazing shot and yes, much better than no shot at all.

Mar 27, 2022 at 07:54 AM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

I used that feature a few times in Ecuador for more reach. The only drawback, minor as it seems, is that the resulting files are only in JPG.

BTW, I programmed in the 2 necessary steps, changing RAW to JPG and Zoom Range (set as CLZ) in My Second Menu as a separate group for easy access without having to find them in the regular menu.

Mar 27, 2022 at 09:06 AM

mitesh
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

AGeoJO wrote:
I used that feature a few times in Ecuador for more reach. The only drawback, minor as it seems, is that the resulting files are only in JPG.

BTW, I programmed in the 2 necessary steps, changing RAW to JPG and Zoom Range (set as CLZ) in My Second Menu as a separate group for easy access without having to find them in the regular menu.

Another option to set it up is to save the configuration as one of your recall shooting modes. That way you can simply turn the mode dial from 1 to 2, for example, to enable the necessary options for CIZ.

Mar 27, 2022 at 09:24 AM

dclark
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

What is the advantage of CIZ JPG over cropping and processing a RAW file in post?

I can see the value of CIZ for video, but I see nothing of value for still images.

Am I missing something?

Mar 27, 2022 at 09:30 AM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

mitesh wrote:
Another option to set it up is to save the configuration as one of your recall shooting modes. That way you can simply turn the mode dial from 1 to 2, for example, to enable the necessary options for CIZ.

True but all of mine are occupied already with other settings that I used more frequently

. And I don't used the CLZ that often and I don't want to mess around with the Menu to get to it.

Mar 27, 2022 at 09:33 AM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

dclark wrote:
What is the advantage of CIZ JPG over cropping and processing a RAW file in post?

I can see the value of CIZ for video, but I see nothing of value for still images.

Am I missing something?

Unlike cropping and normal interpolation, you lose little, if any, detail when you zoom in, your file size remains unchanged, and there’s zero light loss—the maximum aperture of your f/1.4 lens remains f/1.4 even when you double the image magnification.

The difference from the usual is how Sony’s engineers leverage the information from the sensor to punch into the image effectively without losing detail. Without getting technical, Sony’s engineers describe the Clear Image Zoom function as being “interpolation on steroids” involving “advanced algorithms” and a “unique pattern recognition database” using Sony’s exclusive By Pixel Super Resolution Technology. Call it what you may, Sony Clear Image Zoom works and it works really well.

That's more Sony's description, of course. I consider that as an additional feature that I use to get more reach where everything else falls short. No, I didn't do any comparison, BTW.

Mar 27, 2022 at 09:44 AM

ruthenium
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

dclark wrote:
What is the advantage of CIZ JPG over cropping and processing a RAW file in post?

I can see the value of CIZ for video, but I see nothing of value for still images.

Am I missing something?

I thought the same. To add another question: what is the advantage of CIS vs Topaz Gigapixel?
Has it been demonstrated that CIS results in better image quality over cropping in post and upscaling in Gigapixel?
If I remember this correctly, CIS gives a JPG output, thus the post-processing possibilities are a bit more limited, compared to working with the full-size RAW image.
The following does not sound right to me in the post above by AGeoJO: "Unlike cropping ... there’s zero light loss." I believe it must be exactly the same as cropping in this respect.

Mar 27, 2022 at 11:01 AM

tctmp
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

AGeoJO wrote:
Unlike cropping and normal interpolation, you lose little, if any, detail when you zoom in, your file size remains unchanged, and there’s zero light loss—the maximum aperture of your f/1.4 lens remains f/1.4 even when you double the image magnification.

The difference from the usual is how Sony’s engineers leverage the information from the sensor to punch into the image effectively without losing detail. Without getting technical, Sony’s engineers describe the Clear Image Zoom function as being “interpolation on steroids” involving “advanced algorithms” and a “unique pattern recognition database” using Sony’s exclusive By Pixel Super Resolution Technology. Call it what you...Show more →

Ok, so just another digital zooming algorithm after minus the marketing words. I think it's better to stay at the raw and apply it post processing then. Because there are multiple tools specifically for this purpose and software can get better in future too. Applying it in camera seems not reversible and loses the possibility of all future improvements.

Mar 27, 2022 at 11:17 AM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Guys, it is just a feature that Sony provides in the camera for FREE. No need to buy any additional software to get the effect. How do we know whether it is better or the same or worse, unless you ty it? After you have tried it and you don’t like it, then by all means, don’t use it anymore, as simple as that and no harm done. What I quoted is again from the formal description from Sony and not my own as I mentioned above. The last paragraphs is mine.

Mar 27, 2022 at 11:33 AM

dclark
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

I would say CIZ applied to still images is exactly like cropping and sophisticated interpolation. You retain the same amount of image information in the cropped pixels, and use the best interpolation and image information methods (a.k.a. AI) available to upscale to the original pixel dimensions.

There is no difference in the "light loss" between cropping in post and CIZ. The number of photo-electrons in the cropped pixels does not change regardless of whether you use in-camera cropping and interpolation or post processing crop and interpolation.

I agree that CIZ works really well, just as in-camera JPEG works really well. CIZ, applied to still images, is a nice extension of JPEG. I also agree that it can be convenient to have in-camera image processing rather than post process images. Regardless, I will continue to shoot RAW still images and do the cropping and any interpolation and upscaling in post.

Video is an entirely different matter. Most of the claims I see Sony making for "super-resolution technology" is for video applications (https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/research/technologies/super-resolution_technology/). It is easy to see that there is a lot of opportunity for improvements in cropped video images.

Dave

Mar 27, 2022 at 11:46 AM

Petegh
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Some peoples brains compose better when they have a black border around their final composition: so, use the digital zoom to compose, then switch back to RAW to shoot.

Mar 28, 2022 at 01:05 AM

Susurus
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Do I understand correctly that if CIZ is used, AF area settings are not usable at all? At least it happens on R4 and A9. Or am I missing something/ some setting?

Mar 28, 2022 at 05:44 AM

Dultimate
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

It does seem as though the AF areas are not useable at all. It has it's own wide focus area box and things like facial and eye recognition are non functioning.

This is on the A7IV, not the AI btw. It seems to function the same as pointed out in the video in the OP.

Mar 28, 2022 at 06:48 AM

Alex Phan
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Susurus wrote:
Do I understand correctly that if CIZ is used, AF area settings are not usable at all? At least it happens on R4 and A9. Or am I missing something/ some setting?

There is one big green focus area that cover the entire screen. It apply to all model.

Mar 28, 2022 at 08:43 AM

Susurus
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Alex Phan wrote:
There is one big green focus area that cover the entire screen. It apply to all model.

Thank you! Yes, that is what’s happening on both my cameras exactly! Thank you for confirming it. I just thought I might have missed some setting.

Mar 28, 2022 at 08:59 AM

Vtcats
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · A1 new feature: CIZ with AF-C and E-shutter now

Reading all this and trying it, it seems like it’s better suited for video. I believe I heard Mark Smith make a comment recently about using it with video on occasion. At least I thought it was Mark.

Mar 28, 2022 at 09:14 AM

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