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Archive 2020 · help with waterfowl identification

kwilliam8
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · help with waterfowl identification

I could use some help with the identification of a bird that I saw the other day. The first image below is the bird that I am asking about. I have included some other images from the same afternoon, for your general information. My mystery bird (to me) was amongst these other birds, but I don't believe that it is a Goldeneye. My best guess is some type of scoter, but I have not seen a scoter that matches this specific bird. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Update on 12/08/20: After some great help below, my best guess is that the first image below is of a 1st winter Common Goldeneye, probably a female. A big thanks to Geoff, Ron, Tony, and Birdie, for their assistance! The second and third images are Barrow's Goldeneye (male and female).

Keith W.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Things/Waterfowl/i-DgzJ67r/0/301cafe2/X2/20201202-_D509944-Edit-X2.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Things/Waterfowl/i-q5pqWXP/0/7e96bd0e/X2/20201202-_D500073-Edit-X2.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Things/Waterfowl/i-pbphn5c/0/ac78f018/X2/20201202-_D509873-Edit-X2.jpg

Edited on Dec 08, 2020 at 02:06 PM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2020 at 01:36 AM

birdied
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · help with waterfowl identification

Lovely set. m Love the last one.

I am not positive, but I think you have Male and Female Barrows Goldeneye.

https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Barrows_Goldeneye/id

Birdie

Dec 07, 2020 at 03:46 PM

arbitrage
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · help with waterfowl identification

I think the first one is still a Barrow's Goldeneye (or a Common) but beak color more like a Barrow's. Probably the slicked back/wet head is making it look a little different than the female in the 3rd shot.

The male is for sure a Barrow's Goldeneye with the teardrop shaped white patch (vs circular for Common). I think the female is likely a Barrow's also.

Nice shots. We mostly have the Common ones here but further up island I've seen more Barrow's.

Dec 07, 2020 at 04:02 PM

kwilliam8
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · help with waterfowl identification

birdied wrote:
Lovely set. m Love the last one.

I am not positive, but I think you have Male and Female Barrows Goldeneye.

https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Barrows_Goldeneye/id

Birdie

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arbitrage wrote:
I think the first one is still a Barrow's Goldeneye (or a Common) but beak color more like a Barrow's. Probably the slicked back/wet head is making it look a little different than the female in the 3rd shot.

The male is for sure a Barrow's Goldeneye with the teardrop shaped white patch (vs circular for Common). I think the female is likely a Barrow's also.

Nice shots. We mostly have the Common ones here but further up island I've seen more Barrow's.

Birdie and Geoff,

Thanks for your feed-back! I was aware that the second image is of a male Barrow's Goldeneye, and that the third image is of a female Barrow's Goldeneye. What I was wondering about was the identification of the bird in the first image. While that one was with the others, its beak just does not seem to match the others - in relative size (to head) and in its shape. It had occurred to me that the head feathers might be flattened down. However, I have several other images of this bird (not as good as this image) over a longer period of time. The shape of its head never seemed to change. If the feathers had been flattened down (e.g., due to being wet from diving), then wouldn't they have eventually gone back to a more normal position? That led me to think that the beak on this bird indicated some species other than a Goldeneye. Perhaps I am over thinking this... Who knows, maybe this is a hybrid. But thanks again for taking the time to offer your thoughts. Much appreciated!
Keith W.

Edited on Dec 07, 2020 at 05:40 PM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2020 at 05:37 PM

REMAC
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · help with waterfowl identification

I too am having difficulty with that first image...

Dec 07, 2020 at 05:39 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · help with waterfowl identification

Looks like a scaup to me. With first year youngsters migrating south with adults now, the youngsters still have quite different markings from the adults. Just my guess.

Dec 07, 2020 at 07:59 PM

kwilliam8
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · help with waterfowl identification

Imagemaster wrote:
Looks like a scaup to me. With first year youngsters migrating south with adults now, the youngsters still have quite different markings from the adults. Just my guess.

Tony, I had not considered that possibility. You may very well be right! Thanks so much!
Keith W.

Dec 07, 2020 at 08:23 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · help with waterfowl identification

Keith, most of the scaups around here stay out in the nearby bay. It seems a number find it easier to dive for snails, etc. in our adjoining freshwater ponds. Probably because the ponds are non-tidal, so they don’t have to dive deeper at high tides.

Since I have seen a lot of adult scaups in the ponds accompanied by slightly different coloured divers of similar size, I guessed they were their kids.

Tony

Dec 07, 2020 at 09:18 PM

arbitrage
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · help with waterfowl identification

kwilliam8 wrote:
---------------------------------------------

Birdie and Geoff,

Thanks for your feed-back! I was aware that the second image is of a male Barrow's Goldeneye, and that the third image is of a female Barrow's Goldeneye. What I was wondering about was the identification of the bird in the first image. While that one was with the others, its beak just does not seem to match the others - in relative size (to head) and in its shape. It had occurred to me that the head feathers might be flattened down. However, I have several other images of this bird (not as good as this image)...Show more →

I have Goldeneye photos when wet that look exactly like your first shot. I'll try to look for one to show you.
There is variation in the beak color for all Goldeneyes but especially with the Barrow's.
Otherwise beak shape is normal.

I'm about 99.9999999% sure that it is a Barrow's goldeneye....the eye gives it away

Dec 07, 2020 at 09:22 PM

REMAC
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · help with waterfowl identification

The images I'm finding (can't show as I am not "Upload&Sell") support "Common Goldeneye," but I look forward to seeing the images of arbitrage referenced in the previous post.

Dec 07, 2020 at 09:53 PM

louie champan
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · help with waterfowl identification

Looks like you are getting excellent advice on ID, about all I can say it very nicely done Keith. Haven't seen you around here for some time, all OK?

Dec 07, 2020 at 10:15 PM

kwilliam8
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · help with waterfowl identification

arbitrage wrote:
I have Goldeneye photos when wet that look exactly like your first shot. I'll try to look for one to show you.
There is variation in the beak color for all Goldeneyes but especially with the Barrow's.
Otherwise beak shape is normal.

I'm about 99.9999999% sure that it is a Barrow's goldeneye....the eye gives it away

Geoff, you may be right about this. After doing some more google searches, I did find an image of a (male 1st winter) common goldeneye that looks pretty close to my image. It is the second image in the following webpage:

http://www.windowtowildlife.com/common-goldeneye-greater-lesser-scaup-ducks-lakeshore-state-park-milwaukee-wisconsin-december-7-2014/

Thanks again, Geoff!

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REMAC wrote:
The images I'm finding (can't show as I am not "Upload&Sell") support "Common Goldeneye," but I look forward to seeing the images of arbitrage referenced in the previous post.

Ron, thanks for sharing your thoughts! Common Goldeneye is definitely a possibility, as I mention above.

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louie champan wrote:
Looks like you are getting excellent advice on ID, about all I can say it very nicely done Keith. Haven't seen you around here for some time, all OK?

Louie, thanks. I am well. I backed off doing photography a bit. I have also gotten back into macro and drone photography. I do photography less frequently now, but I seem to enjoy it more now.

I hope things are well with you!

Keith W.

Dec 08, 2020 at 01:48 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · help with waterfowl identification

A good article that mentions the very different head shape when wet:
https://www.sibleyguides.com/2010/01/distinguishing-female-barrows-and-common-goldeneyes/

I don't believe the 1st image is a 1st winter male as all the ones around here show part of their white patch by now.

However looking more at the bill shape of your 1st image I'm starting to lean to Common Goldeneye female. Likely a 1st winter as hasn't fully developed the dark bill with yellow tip yet.

Dec 08, 2020 at 08:10 AM

REMAC
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · help with waterfowl identification

I found the following link to be of interest and helpful to me. It probably does not add anything to the discussion as there seems to be a consensus for the Common Goldeneye, but I thought I would share this anyway:

https://dantallmansbirdblog.blogspot.com/2019/12/common-and-barrows-goldeneye.html

Dec 08, 2020 at 12:30 PM

kwilliam8
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · help with waterfowl identification

arbitrage wrote:
A good article that mentions the very different head shape when wet:
https://www.sibleyguides.com/2010/01/distinguishing-female-barrows-and-common-goldeneyes/

I don't believe the 1st image is a 1st winter male as all the ones around here show part of their white patch by now.

However looking more at the bill shape of your 1st image I'm starting to lean to Common Goldeneye female. Likely a 1st winter as hasn't fully developed the dark bill with yellow tip yet.

Geoff, thanks for that link - that was especially helpful! I am also leaning to a 1st winter common goldeneye. Not sure whether male or female, but as you suggest, perhaps a female is more likely. Thanks again. I really appreciate the help!

---------------------------------------------

REMAC wrote:
I found the following link to be of interest and helpful to me. It probably does not add anything to the discussion as there seems to be a consensus for the Common Goldeneye, but I thought I would share this anyway:

https://dantallmansbirdblog.blogspot.com/2019/12/common-and-barrows-goldeneye.html

Ron, thank you for the link! I really appreciate your input to the discussion!

Keith W.

Dec 08, 2020 at 01:55 PM


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