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Archive 2020 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...

  
 
RustyBug
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p.1 #1 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


So, I've got my CL and 55-135 as my entry into Leica.

Now, I'm looking to the wider side and am considering the Q vs. the TL 23/2.
I'm also looking at adapting M's, but for this discussion, we'll keep it mostly to the AF options. There isn't a lot to choose from with the CL (could look at some Sigma / Panny stuff) for wide primes. I've never been a pancake guy, so the 18mm doesn't call to me, atm.

My main area of interest is the optical rendering differences, and to some degree the performance diff's.

Obvioulsy, the Q represents an added body into my bag. Good news, no lens change with two bodies. OTOH, it also means more space in the bag, etc. Also, there's the difference with FF sensor vs. APS-C sensor, and the option for the Macro mode.

So, there are a few things going for the Q.

The focal length differences make the 23/2 roughly a 35mm (equiv fov) vs. 28mm, but I can crop down on the 28. Does giving up some of those FF pixels, make it about a wash with using all of the APS-C pixels?

So, while those questions / perspectives are part of the puzzle ... my main question is what IQ differences between the Q vs. 23/2 exist, such that it might tip the scales in how I want to approach my next piece for the kit.

All thoughts are welcome ... (just know that M>L adapted lenses probably are discussion for another day).




Nov 11, 2020 at 10:52 AM
serhan_
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p.1 #2 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


You can get a used TL 23mm f2 cheaper than Q... 28mm vs 35mm is personal preference. Q might be sharper but when you crop to 35mm, it will be lower MP... Q has macro vs 23mm stops down to f2.8 at min focus 1'~30cm... Q has optical stabilization. You can also check Sony RX1R II or X100V as 35mm options but it will be out of Leica world...

You can read TL23mm reviews:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4247699
https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/leica-summicron-t-23mm-f2-asph



Nov 11, 2020 at 02:16 PM
GiantTristan
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p.1 #3 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


The Summilux 28/1.7 is very sharp and clear, even wide open, detail and color are excellent The lens has some barrel distortion with "baked in" correction. AF of the Leica Q is fast and accurate.


Nov 11, 2020 at 03:38 PM
flash
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p.1 #4 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


Assuming you intend to use as a 35mm, I see only one advantage of the Q and that's the faster aperture. You'll get no real improvement in the IQ as you'll effectively be using close to an APSC portion of the 24x36mm sensor.

Personally I'd get the TL23mm. It's a good peice of glass. If you want 28mm then the Q

Gordon



Nov 11, 2020 at 04:03 PM
SlowDriver
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p.1 #5 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


FWIW, at a given point in time I had the SL, the Q and the T and I sold the Q...

I had access to 2 ICL cameras and the fixed lens Q just was not getting enough use.

Also the (original) SL and the T (through the Visoflex) offered GPS which added to their appeal for travel.

And eventually the pancake 18mm sealed the fate of the Q...

That being said, if you are a 28mm guy you should probably buy (or at least try) the Q. The macro mode is cool as well and cleverly implemented. Image quality wise there will be very little difference between the Q and the CL.



Nov 11, 2020 at 05:10 PM
Donzo98
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p.1 #6 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


If you already have the CL... and like it, it makes no sense to spend on a second body. I would get the 23.


Nov 11, 2020 at 09:16 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #7 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


flash wrote:
Assuming you intend to use as a 35mm,
You'll get no real improvement in the IQ as you'll effectively be using close to an APSC portion of the 24x36mm sensor.


serhan_ wrote:
28mm vs 35mm is personal preference. Q might be sharper but when you crop to 35mm, it will be lower MP...


I'm not certain that I "want" 35mm, just something between 24 & 40. I figure the difference (for many things I shoot) between 28 and 35 I can make up with my feet. Right now, I've got the 15/1.7 (30mm equiv). The quality of this lens is what put me on the path to a "bigger Leica". So, either the 28 or the 35 is going to be either a kiss looser or a bit tighter from there.





Nov 12, 2020 at 03:04 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


SlowDriver wrote:
And eventually the pancake 18mm sealed the fate of the Q...


Was that for size / travel / ICL ... or for preferred / better IQ with the 18mm pancake?



Nov 12, 2020 at 03:06 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #9 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


Donzo98 wrote:
If you already have the CL... and like it, it makes no sense to spend on a second body. I would get the 23.


Actually, I do want two bodies, so I can reduce the number of lens changes. Right now, I've got the GX8 + PL 15/1.7 in the bag as #2. Would like to move up from m43 for the wide to either APS-C or FF.

Whether it winds up being one fixed lens and one ICL, or two ICL ... is flexible.



Nov 12, 2020 at 03:10 PM
flash
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p.1 #10 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


RustyBug wrote:
I'm not certain that I "want" 35mm, just something between 24 & 40. I figure the difference (for many things I shoot) between 28 and 35 I can make up with my feet. Right now, I've got the 15/1.7 (30mm equiv). The quality of this lens is what put me on the path to a "bigger Leica". So, either the 28 or the 35 is going to be either a kiss looser or a bit tighter from there.




In that case it's easy. Get the Q. The CL is fun but the Q is funner....

Gordon

p.s. seriously, there is something special about how enjoyable the Q is to use.



Nov 12, 2020 at 04:13 PM
Donzo98
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p.1 #11 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


RustyBug wrote:
Actually, I do want two bodies, so I can reduce the number of lens changes. Right now, I've got the GX8 + PL 15/1.7 in the bag as #2. Would like to move up from m43 for the wide to either APS-C or FF.

Whether it winds up being one fixed lens and one ICL, or two ICL ... is flexible.


If you want two bodies.... then get the Q. It's great...



Edited on Nov 13, 2020 at 05:43 PM · View previous versions



Nov 12, 2020 at 04:15 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #12 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


How are you getting along with the 55-135, Kent?

Personally, I'm not much for fixed-lens cameras. I'd rather have a second CL with the 23, which would cut down on lens changes and provide a full back-up in the event of a primary failure.



Nov 12, 2020 at 04:17 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #13 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


freaklikeme wrote:
How are you getting along with the 55-135, Kent?

Personally, I'm not much for fixed-lens cameras. I'd rather have a second CL with the 23, which would cut down on lens changes and provide a full back-up in the event of a primary failure.


A pair of CL's ... crossed my mind, also. That, or a TL2... or an SL for more FF options, or etc.

So far, the 55-135 seems to be nice. Could quibble a bit about the manual focus (by wire) experience, though. I've got my FN button set for switching focus modes. Haven't quite got the hang of the magnification coming / going / staying. Trying it without peaking now. Works well, when magnified, but the "by wire" thing might take some getting used to.


As to kit build:
OR ... I could go with the 11-23 and the 23/2 or 35/1.4 sandwiched between the two zooms (11-23 in lieu of Q 28mm FL, 23/2 in lieu of Q 1.7).

The prime could be the "fixed" lens on one body, and I could switch out the zooms ... leap-frogging either side of the prime with the other body. Basically, I'm looking for a prime body and a zoom body kind of setup. One for convenience-range, one for IQ-low light (and quick switch, fewer dust bunny lens changes). The zoom has a nice draw to it. I imagine the prime will draw even better.

Other than using my GX8 to test the 50-200, I've shot it "fixed" with just the PL 15/1.7 (my only m43 lens). Last night, I pulled it out (switching to it for wider from the CL) after shooting the CL and mentally didn't want to put the CL down (read on).


On the CL itself ...

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like the shutter release on the CL. The shutter release stages like a nicely worked 1911 trigger ... crisp, clean, light break around say 2.5 lbs - 3.5 lbs. Not a touchy hair trigger, <2 lbs. Not a heavy pull trigger >4 lbs.. Just the right amount that you don't accidently release it while you've got it half pressed ... yet, it requires no "effort", when you reflex on target acquisition. Super, super nice.

It really makes for an excellent engagement between the eye and the hand. I mean, it feels like a "camera" should, imo. Might sound silly or overly romanticized to the mechanical era, but ... dang, it feels just right.

It's a different hold, and sometimes I'm a little fiddly with figuring out the hold still. But, that release sets the bar for me, going forward. Makes me wonder how a Q or SL will feel in my (largish) hands, and if the release is as nice as the CL. Then, it makes me wonder if Leica can adjust the tension in the shutter release (like a gunsmith changing springs or adjusting the break) of different models. M shooters are probably laughing at me about now.

Still adjusting to other things, but overall, the progression is in a good direction, I think. Just some learning curve / adjusting stuff. Time will tell if the CL becomes my main, or secondary. I figure it'll be a matter of finding the right combo of things. I just started on this journey ... long way to go, yet.

I just wish I didn't have to "buy to try" everything for finding out what I like. And, renting everything to find out, ain't much better. Such is life in Kornfield Kounty.



Nov 12, 2020 at 05:26 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


flash wrote:
The CL is fun but the Q is funner....


From the land of OZ:

https://memes.yarn.co/yarn-clip/484ebee7-f357-4434-a558-c1ebab38207e/text




Nov 12, 2020 at 06:03 PM
SlowDriver
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p.1 #15 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


RustyBug wrote:
[I'm not certain that I "want" 35mm, just something between 24 & 40.


If you are open to 24mm eq the Sigma 16mm f1.4 is very good as well and at $419 (currently) a lot more affordable than the Leica lenses.



Nov 12, 2020 at 09:07 PM
SlowDriver
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p.1 #16 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


RustyBug wrote:
Was that for size / travel / ICL ... or for preferred / better IQ with the 18mm pancake?

Size, weight, convenience. I do like the lens as well, good documentary lens, fast autofocus.

I frequently travel with the 35mm and the 18mm, a very light set-up.

I use the 35mm most of the time, the 18mm when I need to go wider, when weight is a concern or in the evening (restaurants, bars).



Nov 12, 2020 at 09:10 PM
geoffreyg
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p.1 #17 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


The 23 is a very nice lens. I was shooting with it the other day, and forgot to exchange it for the 18-56 zoom and really enjoyed it. Good Leica feeling to it. I could see wanting the Q instead of the CL, but managing both could be a bit cumbersome - sibling quarrels.


Nov 13, 2020 at 07:39 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #18 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


geoffreyg wrote:
The 23 is a very nice lens. I was shooting with it the other day, and forgot to exchange it for the 18-56 zoom and really enjoyed it. Good Leica feeling to it. I could see wanting the Q instead of the CL, but managing both could be a bit cumbersome - sibling quarrels.


Sibling quarrels

That's probably why I won't shoot an 18-56. With a jump between 28/35 (Q or 23) to 80-200 (55-135), not a lot to quarrel about.



Now, about that 35/1.4 ... that might induce some quarreling.



Nov 13, 2020 at 10:02 AM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #19 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


RustyBug wrote:
A pair of CL's ... crossed my mind, also. That, or a TL2... or an SL for more FF options, or etc.

So far, the 55-135 seems to be nice. Could quibble a bit about the manual focus (by wire) experience, though. I've got my FN button set for switching focus modes. Haven't quite got the hang of the magnification coming / going / staying. Trying it without peaking now. Works well, when magnified, but the "by wire" thing might take some getting used to.


FBW generally sucks. It would be nice if the mirrorless makers would give us a method to fine tune the performance to our preferences via a dock or through the cameras.

RustyBug wrote:
As to kit build:
OR ... I could go with the 11-23 and the 23/2 or 35/1.4 sandwiched between the two zooms (11-23 in lieu of Q 28mm FL, 23/2 in lieu of Q 1.7).

The prime could be the "fixed" lens on one body, and I could switch out the zooms ... leap-frogging either side of the prime with the other body. Basically, I'm looking for a prime body and a zoom body kind of setup. One for convenience-range, one for IQ-low light (and quick switch, fewer dust bunny lens changes). The zoom has a nice draw to it. I imagine
...Show more

If anyone's laughing at you, it's only because we've been there. There's a lot of BS about Leica gear floating around, both from detractors and users, but the quality of the mechanical engineering and builds is typically beyond reproach.



Nov 15, 2020 at 04:20 PM
SlowDriver
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p.1 #20 · Leica Q vs. TL 23/2 ...


RustyBug wrote:
Sibling quarrels

That's probably why I won't shoot an 18-56. With a jump between 28/35 (Q or 23) to 80-200 (55-135), not a lot to quarrel about.

Now, about that 35/1.4 ... that might induce some quarreling.


11-23mm, 35mm and 55-135mm is also a very nice travel kit...



Nov 15, 2020 at 05:57 PM
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