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Archive 2020 · X1d II manual focus experience?

ZhanMing12
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · X1d II manual focus experience?

I'm considering getting an X1D II to replace my current Sony system (A7r II, a mix of FE and adapted M lenses) and am trying to figure out how good the manual focus experience is with the X1D and XCD lenses. I've test driven the X1D but only in a studio setting and mostly while the body was tethered, so I didn't get around to learning about manual focus.

Right now almost all of my lenses are manual and I'm hoping to shoot the X1D in the same way. I prefer mapping one of the back buttons to zoom in/out to 100% for finer adjustments and hand-track anything that's moving with focus peaking (and stop down as needed). I know that the SL is well optimized for this workflow but having shot a 645z for some time I'd love to get back into medium format.

For those of you who use the X system, how do you find the manual focus experience? I'd also super appreciate if someone could tell me a bit more about the control logic of the body in manual mode:

- In auto zoom model, does the camera return to the regular (non-zoomed in) live view after half pressing the shutter?
- Can I map the AE-L or the DOF preview button to zoom in/out of the live view?
- If I double tap the screen to go into 100%, does half pressing the shutter exit the zoomed live view?
- When I zoom in, does it go to the selected focus point or always to the center?
- How good is the peaking and is it accurate enough to use as a guide for DOF at, say, F4?
- For focus by wire XCD lenses, how much do you need to turn the focus ring to go from min distance to infinity?

I am definitely not expecting anything close to Leica M experience, but I'd prefer it if I can set the body up to quickly zoom in and fine tune focus as needed.

Aug 31, 2020 at 01:04 AM

KlausJH
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · X1d II manual focus experience?

I have the A7R II and the X1D. For me there is not much of a difference using manual focus with peaking or focus magnification between the two.
With focus magnifying I achieve better results than with focus peaking.
You can customize the focus behavior when using a XCD lens in manual mode to either zoom or peaking.

To your first three questions: yes, yes and yes
When zooming in, it goes to the focus point you have selected.
Peaking is OK, not as accurate as focus magnification when you stop down. For critical focussing I prefer magnification to 100%
The XCD 90 3.2 rotates about 90° from mfd to infinity. More would be better.
All in all, I can focus the X1D als fast as the A7R II, considering the rather slow AF, MF is many times faster than working in AF mode.

Aug 31, 2020 at 02:33 AM

zhangyue
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · X1d II manual focus experience?

I had X1DII, peaking is the worst I ever used in recent year, you can't trust it at all given too many stuff will be highlighted. (I no longer have Sony system, so my memory is mainly compare to SL2 and S1 Z7) However, it can certainly be used as guide for DOF. Other system usually let you select peaking sensitivity at least.

Focus by Wire is also worst I ever used. It is not usable per my standard. I had 21 and 80. I didnt use 21 much. But 80 otherwise would be one of best lens if I can at least use its manual focus well which I can't. My major complain is focus response delay and fine tune resolution. This is definitely worst FBW, nothing as bad.

Ergo and Menu are the best you can get. Very comfortable to hold, pleasing to view. For landscape or city even controlled portrait session, it is a good system. For some, it might be able to serve as sole system. The biggest flaw is I can't really adapt any glass on it, 1/3s read out is actually still usable because that is whole sensor read out spec. (E-shutter is read out line by line.) The problem is delay and black out with each click, 2~3s? I don't mind either Manual focus or Auto Focus, but I mind half baked AF which cant be used as manual focus, if Leica S AF get a 4 out of 10 due to focus accuracy, it at lest gets 8/10 for real focus ring implementation. this one is get about the same for AF with motor vibration, sloppiness, and back focus often but get 1~2 out of 10 for manual focus implementation. I mainly talk about 80mm, I guess there are lots of glasses inside need to be moved. I don't have experience on 45/30/90.

If you like the idea of this system, then my writing will not scare you away anyway. Especially answer to most of your question are it can

As I mentioned this is one of best implementation for control, menu and ergo.

Edit: I also want to add its EVF looks big and bright, however glass design is poor, anything away from center looks not sharp. This is another flaw for manual focus users. Not a problem for many I am sure, but want to mention.

Aug 31, 2020 at 10:24 AM

ZhanMing12
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · X1d II manual focus experience?

KlausJH wrote:
I have the A7R II and the X1D. For me there is not much of a difference using manual focus with peaking or focus magnification between the two.
With focus magnifying I achieve better results than with focus peaking.
You can customize the focus behavior when using a XCD lens in manual mode to either zoom or peaking.

To your first three questions: yes, yes and yes
When zooming in, it goes to the focus point you have selected.
Peaking is OK, not as accurate as focus magnification when you stop down. For critical focussing I prefer magnification to 100%
The XCD 90 3.2 rotates about...Show more →

Thank you for the detail response! Overall the behavior sounds pretty close to the Sony system and I can live without AF for the most part.

Do you have any experience with the 65mm and the new 45mm by any chance? And is it true that the sensor blackout is limited to the physical cycling of the shutter when all previews are turned to off? I don't recall blackout being a concern for me when I attended their demo session last year, but I only shot about 10 images off of a tripod that day.

Aug 31, 2020 at 11:18 AM

ZhanMing12
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · X1d II manual focus experience?

zhangyue wrote:
I had X1DII, peaking is the worst I ever used in recent year, you can't trust it at all given too many stuff will be highlighted. (I no longer have Sony system, so my memory is mainly compare to SL2 and S1 Z7) However, it can certainly be used as guide for DOF. Other system usually let you select peaking sensitivity at least.

Focus by Wire is also worst I ever used. It is not usable per my standard. I had 21 and 80. I didnt use 21 much. But 80 otherwise would be one of best lens if I...Show more →

Thanks for the writeup. I don't plan on using the 80mm (or the 21) in the foreseeable future, given the cost of those optics I would probably opt to just keep a Sony body to shoot fast tele's and reserve the X1d ii for 25-70mm.

I don't recall the EVF being anything less than excellent though, have you tried any other copies of the body to see if it was a hardware issue?

Aug 31, 2020 at 11:33 AM

zhangyue
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · X1d II manual focus experience?

ZhanMing12 wrote:
Thanks for the writeup. I don't plan on using the 80mm (or the 21) in the foreseeable future, given the cost of those optics I would probably opt to just keep a Sony body to shoot fast tele's and reserve the X1d ii for 25-70mm.

I don't recall the EVF being anything less than excellent though, have you tried any other copies of the body to see if it was a hardware issue?

I didnt try different copy but It is highly unlikely due to copy variation as there is no decenter I can detect and center was just fine. It is very similar look you will get from DK17 magnify glass on Nikon's SLR body that you have bigger mag but lower quality away from center. It could be the eye point design.

Out of all MILC I used recently, GFX, SL2, S1, Z7, without talking about JPEG feeding quality and resolution, I feel Z7 has the most analog like panel for viewing. (pure EVF optic glass talking) SL2 and S1 are not lag much with different plus. GFX is quite similar to X1DII, less bright but don't have issue on corner.

My attention on hardware is not main stream though, so it may not bother you or others at all.

Aug 31, 2020 at 12:13 PM

KlausJH
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · X1d II manual focus experience?

ZhanMing12 wrote:
Thank you for the detail response! Overall the behavior sounds pretty close to the Sony system and I can live without AF for the most part.

Do you have any experience with the 65mm and the new 45mm by any chance? And is it true that the sensor blackout is limited to the physical cycling of the shutter when all previews are turned to off? I don't recall blackout being a concern for me when I attended their demo session last year, but I only shot about 10 images off of a tripod that day.

Currently I only own the XCD 3.2/90 with the 4/45p on backorder. A 4/21 or 3.5/30 might be added later. The 90 is fairly easy to focus and a nice lens for walking around. The 1.9/80 is a different story, size, weight and balance make it less suitable for me as a traveling lens. There are also a couple of manual lenses that work very well (for me) and can be shared between the X1D and the A7R II. Heliar 15 f4.5, Distagon 35 f1.4 ZM, Contax 35-70, Contax 100-300 and for macro work the C/V Macro Apo-Lanthar 125 f2.5. Of course, the manual lenses are not for moving objects.
The EVF on my X1D is tack sharp from corner to corner. I don't find the blackout time very disturbing for my style of shooting, it might be around 1/2 second. Read out time and shutter cycle determine the blackout time. It all depends on where you come from, what you are using the camera for and what you expect. I worked many years with a Rollei SL66 and like the X1D very much.

Sep 01, 2020 at 02:13 AM

ZhanMing12
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · X1d II manual focus experience?

KlausJH wrote:
Currently I only own the XCD 3.2/90 with the 4/45p on backorder. A 4/21 or 3.5/30 might be added later. The 90 is fairly easy to focus and a nice lens for walking around. The 1.9/80 is a different story, size, weight and balance make it less suitable for me as a traveling lens. There are also a couple of manual lenses that work very well (for me) and can be shared between the X1D and the A7R II. Heliar 15 f4.5, Distagon 35 f1.4 ZM, Contax 35-70, Contax 100-300 and for macro work the C/V Macro Apo-Lanthar 125 f2.5....Show more →

Thank you for the input! My plan is pretty similar although I prefer 50 equivalent for walking around, and I'll add a 90mm and 45mm later down the road if I decide to buy into the X system. Do you use a macro adapter ring for macro or just the CV lens?

A little blackout is fine, the A7r II also has that. I shot a 645N before the 645Z which probably isn't as slow as the Rollei but definitely also on the very deliberate side of things.

I'd probably

Sep 01, 2020 at 05:13 PM

KlausJH
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · X1d II manual focus experience?

ZhanMing12 wrote:
Thank you for the input! My plan is pretty similar although I prefer 50 equivalent for walking around, and I'll add a 90mm and 45mm later down the road if I decide to buy into the X system. Do you use a macro adapter ring for macro or just the CV lens?
...

I'd probably

My Macro Apo-Lanthar 125mm has a C/Y mount, it's mounted to a Novoflex C/Y to XCD adapter. The image circle is large enough to serve the 44x33 sensor without a trace of vignetting.

Sep 02, 2020 at 05:20 AM

wdshuck
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · X1d II manual focus experience?

Did you end up buying into X1D system? How did you find it? Thinking of adding one to my Sony A7RIV

ZhanMing12 wrote:
Thank you for the input! My plan is pretty similar although I prefer 50 equivalent for walking around, and I'll add a 90mm and 45mm later down the road if I decide to buy into the X system. Do you use a macro adapter ring for macro or just the CV lens?

A little blackout is fine, the A7r II also has that. I shot a 645N before the 645Z which probably isn't as slow as the Rollei but definitely also on the very deliberate side of things.

I'd probably

Nov 23, 2021 at 05:10 AM

ZhanMing12
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · X1d II manual focus experience?

wdshuck wrote:
Did you end up buying into X1D system? How did you find it? Thinking of adding one to my Sony A7RIV

I did - now I have two bodies (a X1D II and a 4116 that I picked up for cheap), and the 45, 65, and 90. I'm not much of a wide person so I'm not sure if I want the 30, but a 28mm equivalent would be pretty tempting since that's as wide as I go on the Sony system back when I had it.

I ended up really liking the system - it's slow but not anything I can't live with (the 4116 I wouldn't use for the main body, it works fine as a backup). Sync at 1/2000 with cheap manual flashes opens up a lot of possibilities, and the 45p kit is just light enough to carry regularly. The files are incredible to work with.

If you like 4:3 or use strobes or just want a different shooting experience, I would go for it.

Nov 23, 2021 at 05:48 PM

theHUN
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · X1d II manual focus experience?

Is the focus by wire non-linear as on the Sony, as in: the amount of focus change depends not only on the amount of focus travel but also on the speed at which you turn the helicoid?

Edited on Nov 23, 2021 at 07:15 PM · View previous versions

Nov 23, 2021 at 06:23 PM

Jaree
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · X1d II manual focus experience?

Good choice with the X1DII!

It may be slow and a bit clunky in operation BUT, can't argue with the results. After having used the X1DII for several months now, I don't feel like using any other gear.

Nov 23, 2021 at 06:59 PM

flash
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · X1d II manual focus experience?

theHUN wrote:
Is the focus by wire non-linear as on the Sony, as in: the amount of focus change depends not only on the amount of focus travel but also on the speed at which you turn the helicoid?

No linear option, unfortunately. But manual focus is reasonably easy to get spot on. Star button defaults to zoom and can be set at 50 or 100%. AF override is available in MF mode as well which is really useful. Kind of like back button focus on the Leica SL system.

Gordon

Nov 24, 2021 at 02:41 AM

SlowDriver
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · X1d II manual focus experience?

Adding to this that the 45P has mechanical focusing, it is not focus by wire and it is really easy to focus, the X1D II w/ the 45P works well for me for travel and documentary type of shooting.

Nov 24, 2021 at 05:53 AM

flash
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · X1d II manual focus experience?

SlowDriver wrote:
Adding to this that the 45P has mechanical focusing, it is not focus by wire and it is really easy to focus, the X1D II w/ the 45P works well for me for travel and documentary type of shooting.

I learned something today! Thanks. It's the only XCD lens I don't own.

Would you get this if you already had the original 45?

Gordon

Nov 24, 2021 at 02:35 PM

SlowDriver
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · X1d II manual focus experience?

flash wrote:
I learned something today! Thanks. It's the only XCD lens I don't own.

Would you get this if you already had the original 45?

Gordon

Probably not although I do own both, the 45P is slightly smaller and lighter but all in all not that much either.

I kind of wish Hasselblad would have made the 45P a 35P. That would have given us and additional focal length, a 28mm equivalent, and it would have reduced the fairly big native focal length gap that you currently have between the 30mm and the 45mm/45P.

I am very happy with the X1DII. If I had to sell all my gear it probably would be the last one to go...

Nov 24, 2021 at 03:14 PM

ZhanMing12
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · X1d II manual focus experience?

flash wrote:
I learned something today! Thanks. It's the only XCD lens I don't own.

Would you get this if you already had the original 45?

Gordon

To offer an alternative answer, I'd consider it. A friend of mine has an X1DII and she shoots with the 45, and I've compared the two lenses. The 45p is transformative in how light and small the package is. I think it's like having the same FL in a F1.4 and F2.4 on FF, one for serious shoots and one for travel and walking around.

The 45p is the only X lens that is small enough for me to throw in a bag and carry around regularly. That said, I would definitely also buy a 35p, since I personally also prefer 28 to 35 for day to day shooting.

Nov 24, 2021 at 03:19 PM

SlowDriver
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · X1d II manual focus experience?

ZhanMing12 wrote:
To offer an alternative answer, I'd consider it. A friend of mine has an X1DII and she shoots with the 45, and I've compared the two lenses. The 45p is transformative in how light and small the package is. I think it's like having the same FL in a F1.4 and F2.4 on FF, one for serious shoots and one for travel and walking around.

The 45p is the only X lens that is small enough for me to throw in a bag and carry around regularly. That said, I would definitely also buy a 35p, since I personally also...Show more →

I do actually agree with this as well. The X1DII with the 45P is always in my bag and I even hardly notice it... I will definitely not take the 80mm or the zoom everywhere...

That being said, if a small footprint was Gordon's main goal he probably would already have bought the 45P I am guessing...

Nov 24, 2021 at 03:34 PM

flash
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · X1d II manual focus experience?

SlowDriver wrote:
I do actually agree with this as well. The X1DII with the 45P is always in my bag and I even hardly notice it... I will definitely not take the 80mm or the zoom everywhere...

That being said, if a small footprint was Gordon's main goal he probably would already have bought the 45P I am guessing...

More that a 35mm equivalent isn’t my main lens. I’m a 50mm guy. I REALLY wish there was a 65mm f4P.

Gordon

Nov 25, 2021 at 12:07 AM

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