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Archive 2020 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences

  
 
Autoxave
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Are there any theoretical disadvantages due to overheating in the long term, for instance malfunctioning of internal components? Any one of you who have knowledge of these kind of issues from other areas such as overheating of computers or other computerized gear?


Aug 08, 2020 at 01:32 PM
mogul
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Autoxave wrote:
Are there any theoretical disadvantages due to overheating in the long term, for instance malfunctioning of internal components? Any one of you who have knowledge of these kind of issues from other areas such as overheating of computers or other computerized gear?

I would worry about solder joints...extended warranty would help for piece of mind.



Aug 08, 2020 at 01:37 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Lifetimes of most electronic and mechanical components are reduced at higher temperatures for multiple reasons. Temperature cycling also potentially creates additional damage. I'm not sure if the camera stores the number of overheating events, but it would be nice to have. Only time will determine what if anything tends to fail more frequently.

EBH



Aug 08, 2020 at 01:42 PM
qc_mountain
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


There will more component failure's than usual in the long run that is why they have the shut down after certain temperature when the limit is reached . Heat is very bad for electronics.

The value of the used camera will decrease more due for those who use video only. I wouldn't buy a used camera that was used for videos only .

Francois.



Aug 08, 2020 at 02:00 PM
qc_mountain
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


EB-1 wrote:
Lifetimes of most electronic and mechanical components are reduced at higher temperatures for multiple reasons. Temperature cycling also potentially creates additional damage. I'm not sure if the camera stores the number of overheating events, but it would be nice to have. Only time will determine what if anything tends to fail more frequently.

EBH


Canon never cared about putting a ( simple shutter counter in their camera's ) beside the 1 series . I don't think that
they care about a temperature cycling counter at all . Doing so they would have to admit that they have not resolved the heat issue at all .

Francois.



Aug 08, 2020 at 02:09 PM
Maximus3D
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


It takes a long time before you will notice any form of component degradation, we're talking about numerous years. During product development this is always tested well and devices are released with this kept in mind. They work within their limitations.

My main job is to work with product development and heat testing is one of my daily missions. Modern hardware lasts a very long time, it's built to handle heat. The first thing that gets affected is usually the thermal paste if there is any, but even that process takes a long time.

/ Magnus



Aug 08, 2020 at 02:32 PM
guyharrison
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


What about image degradation even in stills mode as the camera progressively heats up? Has. anyone tested for this?


Aug 08, 2020 at 03:31 PM
Maximus3D
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Sensor noise usually increase when the sensor gets hot, but if it's within the manufacturing specifications it will not. This is also a new type of sensor from Canon so we don't have all the specs on the table yet. It's possible Canon drops down to 12bit RAW instead of 14bit to easier manage the higher temperatures and to avoid increasing sensor noise.

/ Magnus



Aug 08, 2020 at 04:13 PM
mdvaden
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


EB-1 wrote:
Lifetimes of most electronic and mechanical components are reduced at higher temperatures for multiple reasons. Temperature cycling also potentially creates additional damage. I'm not sure if the camera stores the number of overheating events, but it would be nice to have. Only time will determine what if anything tends to fail more frequently.

EBH


Maybe that's why the Three Blind Mice guy raised a concern on his A7S iii review video. He seemed bothered about the temperatures recorded in a couple tests people have done recently.

Maybe a couple brands are allowing bodies to run slightly too hot hoping to get away with it, and other maybe running too cool to err on the safe side.

On the other hand, I'm well aware how hot the interior of dark red, blue and black vans, cars and trucks get in summer. Inside the passenger compartment and under the hood, where there's scores of connections, electronics, sensors and computers. And the components of most last a decade or two, 100,000 to 300,000 miles. Obviously cameras look different. But I think manufacturing has stepped up its game across the board.




Aug 08, 2020 at 05:19 PM
Doug Vann
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


When it comes to heat - the more heat the worse it is for electronics. I would think it could shorten the camera life in the long term.....



Aug 08, 2020 at 05:24 PM
kezeka
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Perhaps canon has decided to err on the side of caution and has the camera shut down high temperature operations at a temperature that is safer in order to prolong the components of the cameras.

The flip side of this is Sony, who allow users to increase the temperature cut offs without explicitly informing them of the consequences of said decision. I know some of y’all want to die at the alter of Sony for some reason but they have overheating problems as well.



Aug 08, 2020 at 05:36 PM
CW100
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


kezeka wrote:
Perhaps canon has decided to err on the side of caution and has the camera shut down high temperature operations at a temperature that is safer in order to prolong the components of the cameras.

The flip side of this is Sony, who allow users to increase the temperature cut offs without explicitly informing them of the consequences of said decision. I know some of y’all want to die at the alter of Sony for some reason but they have overheating problems as well.


yes, just google "sony overheating" ... horror tales
people have to carry heat sinks in their pockets if they shoot video !




Aug 08, 2020 at 05:40 PM
dmcphoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


guyharrison wrote:
What about image degradation even in stills mode as the camera progressively heats up? Has. anyone tested for this?


THAT is the question I've been wanting to see answered. It does not take a lot of heat to degrade IQ. Even my 5DSR gets pretty warm if you're in live view for a while. The R5 is always in live view and we know it gets hot in stills mode. Some say it reaches the thermal shutoff in stills mode, some say it does not. Regardless, it wouldn't be surprising to see noisy stills as the camera gets hot, or maybe less shadow detail when it's hot if the amount of baked-in NR ramps up with heat to make it less noticeable. AFAIK no one really knows any of this yet.



Aug 08, 2020 at 05:41 PM
kezeka
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


CW100 wrote:
yes, just google "sony overheating" ... horror tales
people have to carry heat sinks in their pockets if they shoot video !



This made me laugh out loud scrolling through the photos. Thanks.

In the words of Outcast “I know you like to think your shit don’t stink, but lean a little bit closer and see that roses really smell like ewww eww eww”



Aug 08, 2020 at 05:47 PM
qc_mountain
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Maximus3D wrote:
It takes a long time before you will notice any form of component degradation, we're talking about numerous years. During product development this is always tested well and devices are released with this kept in mind. They work within their limitations.

My main job is to work with product development and heat testing is one of my daily missions. Modern hardware lasts a very long time, it's built to handle heat. The first thing that gets affected is usually the thermal paste if there is any, but even that process takes a long time.

/ Magnus


Maybe in very specialized field like Aerospace or medical equipment like pace maker and other they have to do it . Assuming that Canon are mounting their PCB's with the best component is not feasible in their state of mind .Those are consumer products that as to be thrown away after 7 years because Canon wont fix them after that time laps .

But in real life company's for economy purpose will go for lesser grade component that wont last as long if they can cut corner's they will do it at every level switch , transistors , capacitors , resistors etc etc everything count's for making them as cheap as possible...you wont see the best in those products for sure .

Why is that we might ask ? : The answer is quite simple the R5 MkII will be available in 2025 .

Francois.



Aug 08, 2020 at 07:17 PM
Autoxave
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


2025 for R5 mkII? That seems too long. I would guess 2022. Canon need to do something fast with the overheating issue.


Aug 09, 2020 at 01:18 AM
kezeka
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Autoxave wrote:
2025 for R5 mkII? That seems too long. I would guess 2022. Canon need to do something fast with the overheating issue.


Canon doesn’t release cameras every two years like Sony. Maybe you should return your R5 and buy a different compact 8k non-cinema camera.



Aug 09, 2020 at 02:10 AM
dmcphoto
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Maximus3D wrote:
Sensor noise usually increase when the sensor gets hot, but if it's within the manufacturing specifications it will not. This is also a new type of sensor from Canon so we don't have all the specs on the table yet. It's possible Canon drops down to 12bit RAW instead of 14bit to easier manage the higher temperatures and to avoid increasing sensor noise.

/ Magnus


Sensor noise is directly related to temperature no matter what the temperature is. If you chill an image sensor the noise will keep getting lower the colder it gets, down to 0 degrees K (-459.67 degrees F). If you heat it up noise will increase. Thermal noise is well known and has no particular threshold where it starts. A hot image sensor is a noisy one and there's no way around it. This may be why Canon bakes noise reduction into the R5 RAW files.



Aug 09, 2020 at 04:20 AM
Simon Barker
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


Autoxave wrote:
Are there any theoretical disadvantages due to overheating in the long term, for instance malfunctioning of internal components? Any one of you who have knowledge of these kind of issues from other areas such as overheating of computers or other computerized gear?


Theoretical? Sure but you can't really tell without knowing the specific components involved and the conditions they are actually going to operate under.

If you're asking should we be concerned about the life expectancy of these cameras under normal usage then I would say probably not; consider the CPU or GPU in a computer, how hot are those things running constantly? Do you worry about them failing or having shortened lifespan because they often run at high temperatures?

Even under ideal conditions components can fail early and so I try to take reasonable care of my tools so they'll last a while (hopefully) but ultimately I don't want to spend extra time and energy worrying about those tools or perhaps worded better: my favourite tools are usually the ones that fade into the background when being used.



Aug 09, 2020 at 05:08 AM
slowdad
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · R5/R6 overheating issues - long term consequences


in my mind this heat issue and electronics is a big deal

Heat and electronics do not mix. Heat shortens lifespans of Electric equipment- This is a well known fact. Why do you think major companies have computers rooms that are temp controlled ?? We all know what happens with speed lights from rapid firing use which causes heat abuse to flash tubes. They fry flash tubes resulting in expensive repairs and speed lights slow down and Misfire for regular use....This is going to happen with these new released cameras...count on it....they are getting hot with 3 hours of use shooting stills. Hot enough to have white heat warn lights coming on

and the canon owners manual says things will happen while shooting stills..image degradation

also says you can shoot High ISO....really...what about event and wedding shooters who live at High ISO for 4-6 hours at wedding receptions ??

Canon need to recall and fix the issue




Aug 09, 2020 at 08:31 AM
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