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Archive 2020 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

k-h.a.w
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

Imagemaster wrote:
Thanks. About the only difference where I find the III better is the EVF is a lot better.

Thanks Tony, interesting. That would help my aging eyes.
Somebody found his III does better with his FT lenses, like little (150/2) and big tuna (300/2.8).
As I also have those lenses I ought to find out about that.

Imagemaster wrote:
For tracking action, the A9 leaves Oly in the dust.

Yup, the A9 is sure special. I got mine when it first was available about 3 years ago IIRC.

Imagemaster wrote:
The advantages of the Oly are size, weight, Pro Capture, and the in-camera bracketing options.

Agreed. Thanks again, K-H.

Jul 19, 2020 at 12:28 PM

galenapass
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

somersettr wrote:
I switched from Olympus E-M1 MkIII + 300mm + MC-14 to Sony A9 II + 200-600mm + SEL14 for birding for most of the reasons that you give. My main gripe with Olympus C-AF is its consistency. Some shots sharp, some not.

In terms of sharpness, I find the two lenses indistinguishable. Which is pretty good for a mid-range zoom. My biggest fear in swithcing systems was that the lens would be soft or have CA but it's fine. However, on the A9, the Sony gathers about 60% more light and that does make a difference in the amount of noise...Show more →

Hi. Thanks for the comments.

Jul 19, 2020 at 01:10 PM

galenapass
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

arbitrage wrote:
Thanks for the detailed write-up.

Now....you should get an A9 and 1.4TC

....as Birdie alludes to above....the A6400 is nowhere close to a mini-A9 when it comes to AF....the A9 is on another level....many levels above. And of course the blackout free, always silent, no distortion (cough, cough...R5...cough, cough) is unmatched anywhere in the camera industry despite this being 2017 tech.

OK, I probably did exaggerate. But coming from Olympus AF-C I guess the A6400 seemed good enough to call it a mini-A9. However, based on some of the comments here maybe I need to get that A9 sooner than later.

Jul 19, 2020 at 01:12 PM

birdied
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

galenapass wrote:
OK, I probably did exaggerate. But coming from Olympus AF-C I guess the A6400 seemed good enough to call it a mini-A9. However, based on some of the comments here maybe I need to get that A9 sooner than later.

I felt the same way about the A6400 after coming from Olympus !! I HATED the lay out of the A6400, but the A/F was so much better than the Olympus, I was willing to deal with it

. Heck, I dealt with it for over a year .

However, the first time I shot with the A9 , I was totally sold and kicking myself for waiting so long . The ergonomics are wonderful compared to the A6400 and really there is no comparison . The A/F is truly amazing . All the accolades you read are well deserved.

Not to say one can not get great shots with the A6400, as you most certainly can. You just have to work harder for them and they are fewer and farther between.

The ability to set the A9 up with so many different ways and have focus come from so many buttons with each set up really makes things so much easier. No more fiddling around with the small dial on the back of the A6400 and hope you pushed when you need to and hit the right spot .

The size of view finder on the A9 is a big help compared to the A6400 as well, plus it is not off set to the left.

I also notice a difference in working the files with A9 , seems much more forgiving .

I have only had the A9 for about 4 days now, still learning it , but REALLY enjoying taking action shots again.

Birdie

Jul 19, 2020 at 01:37 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

Let’s look at some stats - number of AF points:

R5/R6: 1053
A9/A9II: 694
A6400: 425
Z7: 493
Z6: 273
E-M1X: 121

To a degree, that does speak to how well, accurate and reliable the eye AF will work, especially when it’s trying to find, lock onto, and track the eye of a distant/approaching small bird in the frame. I am sure the A9 III will eventually catch up to the R5/R6 but it won’t happen anytime soon.

Jul 19, 2020 at 02:35 PM

whumber
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

bobbytan wrote:
Let’s look at some stats - number of AF points:

R5/R6: 1053
A9/A9II: 694
A6400: 425
Z7: 493
Z6: 273
E-M1X: 121

To a degree, that does speak to how well, accurate and reliable the eye AF will work, especially when it’s trying to find, lock onto, and track the eye of a distant/approaching small bird in the frame. I am sure the A9 III will eventually catch up to the R5/R6 but it won’t happen anytime soon.

The number of AF points listed seems to be a slightly misleading number though. The number of almost always an artificial construct where large numbers of actual OSPDAF AF points are grouped together in software; in the E-M1ii/X/iii the PDAF pattern covers pretty much the entire sensor with millions of individual PDAF sensors. If you look at the exif data Olympus reports, the number of AF points for any of the fixed pattern modes does indeed match up to the 121 point grid, but if you switch the Eye-AF or Tracking modes it appears to activate intermediate points.

Jul 19, 2020 at 03:08 PM

Jack Kelley
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

Hey, whumber --

I'm not following. Could you clarify?On an E-M1X the visible AF grid remains at 11x11 whether Eye-AF and/or Subject Tracking is active or inactive. Where are you seeing EXIF that suggests otherwise? Thx.

Jul 19, 2020 at 04:13 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

This is for you, Mike .... the R5 compared. Granted the comparison is strictly based on the specs of each camera, as production copies have not hit the market en masse.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/the-canon-eos-r5-compared?utm_medium=Email%201817267&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Sony%20200719&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=the-canon-eos-r5-compared&encEmail=95EBA7037B91815CF36AFF0F5B788BCB5E81DB4DAD874F30168DDBB865C0FBD0

Jul 19, 2020 at 04:25 PM

nandadevieast
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

Canon counts their number of (Dual pixel) points the way Sigma counts their megapixels?
Honestly who falls for this marketing hype? No chance. I wonder if even Sony can surpass their a9 in any meaningful way.

Edited on Jul 19, 2020 at 04:55 PM · View previous versions

Jul 19, 2020 at 04:40 PM

galenapass
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

bobbytan wrote:
This is for you, Mike .... the R5 compared. Granted the comparison is strictly based on the specs of each camera, as production copies have not hit the market en masse.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/the-canon-eos-r5-compared?utm_medium=Email%201817267&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Sony%20200719&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=the-canon-eos-r5-compared&encEmail=95EBA7037B91815CF36AFF0F5B788BCB5E81DB4DAD874F30168DDBB865C0FBD0

Bobby...you are killing me

Jul 19, 2020 at 04:48 PM

Imagemaster
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

All AF points of different cameras are not identical, just as all pixels of different cameras are not identical.

So what is the point of saying camera A is better because it has more pixels or AF points than camera B?

Marketing is the only point.

Jul 19, 2020 at 05:30 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

galenapass wrote:
Bobby...you are killing me

OK I am starting to wonder about Canon again. I have been looking around on the web but do we know if the R5 can shoot in a crop mode and what that crop will be - 1.5x or 1.6x or....? What I am trying to figure out is what FOV do I get @500mm@@@@@ in crop mode? How many pixels?

The Canon crop mode is 1.6x so your 100-500L becomes 160-800 in the APS-C mode with 17 or 18MP which also increases your buffer size. I would probably get the 1.4x TC (but not the 2x TC) as that will extend my reach to 1120mm.

The review by Jared Polin should be out real soon (possibly within a week) and I am sure he will be comparing the R5 to the A9. I will be sure to look out for that! Meanwhile, here's an image comparison between the 100-500L (3lbs) and the 200-600G (4.65lbs).

Edited on Jul 19, 2020 at 05:56 PM · View previous versions

Jul 19, 2020 at 05:38 PM

galenapass
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

birdied wrote:
I felt the same way about the A6400 after coming from Olympus !! I HATED the lay out of the A6400, but the A/F was so much better than the Olympus, I was willing to deal with it

Jul 19, 2020 at 05:54 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

Take the stats with a large grain of salt. And where did I say that Camera A is better than Camera B? I have tremendous respect for the A9/A9 II and it would not surprise me at all if independent testers can prove that the A9 AF is still the best one out there.

Imagemaster wrote:
All AF points of different cameras are not identical, just as all pixels of different cameras are not identical.

So what is the point of saying camera A is better because it has more pixels or AF points than camera B?

Marketing is the only point.

Jul 19, 2020 at 06:02 PM

galenapass
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

bobbytan wrote:
The Canon crop mode is 1.6x so your 100-500L becomes 160-800 in the APS-C mode with 17 or 18MP which also increases your buffer size. I would probably get the 1.4x TC (but not the 2x TC) as that will extend my reach to 1120mm.

The review by Jared Polin should be out real soon (possibly within a week) and I am sure he will be comparing the R5 to the A9. I will be sure to look out for that! Meanwhile, here's an image comparison between the 100-500L (3lbs) and the 200-600G (4.65lbs).

Ideally I would like 20-24 MP for cropping. I am worried about 17-18 MP, that reminds me too much of the EM5II I used to shoot. I would be inclined to wait and see how a TC works with that 100-500L.

Jul 19, 2020 at 06:19 PM

birdied
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

galenapass wrote:

Hey Birdie,

Thanks for the comments. The only thing I worry about is the lack of reach with the A9. Ideally, I would get an A7rIV and shoot in crop mode, but comments about that not working with the 200-600 are very common. Not ready to buy that 600 f/4! We are in the middle of a remodel right now and my wife would kill me.

Originally when I purchased the A6400, that was my biggest concern as well. The 200-600 was not out at that time .All I had was the 100-400 plus 1/4 TC. That is why I purchased the A6400.

Now, with the the 200-600 with or without TC, I have not felt that to be an issue. I can crop more heavily than I could with the A6400.

Please , I am not trying to persuade you one way or the other, just trying to relay my feelings and experience with both cameras. I firmly believe there are no bad cameras. One just has to find the camera that meets ones needs, budget, etc.
I see no sense in bashing brands or models . Just pick the tool that you can afford and does the job for you and go out and have fun.

Birdie

Jul 19, 2020 at 06:29 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

Get the A7R IV then.

galenapass wrote:
Ideally I would like 20-24 MP for cropping. I am worried about 17-18 MP, that reminds me too much of the EM5II I used to shoot. I would be inclined to wait and see how a TC works with that 100-500L.

Jul 19, 2020 at 06:49 PM

galenapass
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

bobbytan wrote:
Get the A7R IV then.

Doesn't work well with the 200-600. Lot's of posts on the Sony forum with unhappy users.

Jul 19, 2020 at 07:12 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

Then get the 600/4 GM lens!

galenapass wrote:
Doesn't work well with the 200-600. Lot's of posts on the Sony forum with unhappy users.

Jul 19, 2020 at 07:21 PM

tzhang4284
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · EM1x + 300mmpro/1.4xTC vs. Sony A6400 + 200-600mm

bobbytan wrote:
The Canon crop mode is 1.6x so your 100-500L becomes 160-800 in the APS-C mode with 17 or 18MP which also increases your buffer size. I would probably get the 1.4x TC (but not the 2x TC) as that will extend my reach to 1120mm.

The review by Jared Polin should be out real soon (possibly within a week) and I am sure he will be comparing the R5 to the A9. I will be sure to look out for that! Meanwhile, here's an image comparison between the 100-500L (3lbs) and the 200-600G (4.65lbs).

The photo comparison is a bit misleading. The 200-600mm is an internal zoom design which allows it to balance well on a gimbal. The Canon 100-500mm is more closely related to the Sony 100-400mm which zooms in and out. The sony is also a slightly shorter design while the canon goes out to 500mm vs 400mm and peaks at 7.1 vs f5.6. The Canon looks like a solid zoom lens but don't think there's any magic applied here - just a different set of design tradeoffs based on what they think customers want.

Jul 19, 2020 at 07:57 PM

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