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Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe

  
 
story_teller
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


PCN2039 wrote:
Sorry but there is absolutely no reason it is not "cost-effective" to fix a part that is prone to breakage. Imagine your mechnic saying you have to buy a new car because your struts/shocks were damaged.

the "ugly truth" is that Profoto will not fix a crucial part of a $429 device for whatever reasons they stated the first and second time.

And regarding Godox another guy who broke his hotshoe flash stated they sell the user-replaceable part for $17.

I pray you do not ever break any of your camera gear.




Your poor analogy comparing an expensive $20,000 auto to a $420 remote is not even close. But let's go there anyway. If your battery dies do they take the battery out, repair it and return it? If your starter dies do they take it out and repair that unit for you? If your electronic control unit (ecu) malfunctions do they take it out and repair it? If a shock absorber fails, etc. etc. The labor to repair a single item at a time would be very cost prohibitive. It's a lot more cost effective to take 100 or 500 failed starters and send them through remanufacture at one time than try to fix them individually.

Apple does indeed have disposable products. If you want a new battery for your iPad, you pay for it, but in reality, you turn in your existing iPad and get a refurbished one with a new battery. Apple has decided it's not cost effective to replace the battery for an individual's iPad. Your iPad gets remanufactured when they do a batch run of iPads and gets a new home when someone else needs a refurbished unit. Now that's a much closer analogy. Sony has been in the business of disposable electronics for years. Remember the Sony Walkman products? Disposable! Sometimes it's more cost effective to replace than repair and that varies from product to product.

I'm happy for you that Godox has a $17 replacement part and as I said earlier, you should sell your Profoto gear and buy Godox if that's what will give you peace of mind. Forget Profoto and drive on.

Personally, I'm happy with Profoto. They've taken good care of me and their products work well. If something breaks, I expect to pay for getting it fixed.



Jul 08, 2020 at 07:32 AM
PCN2039
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


My point exactly: " If something breaks, I expect to pay for getting it fixed"

I am willing to pay for getting it fixed but they won't fix the remote.


story_teller wrote:
If something breaks, I expect to pay for getting it fixed.





Jul 08, 2020 at 07:39 AM
Tartine
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


story_teller wrote:
Your poor analogy comparing an expensive $20,000 auto to a $420 remote is not even close. But let's go there anyway. If your battery dies do they take the battery out, repair it and return it? If your starter dies do they take it out and repair that unit for you? If your electronic control unit (ecu) malfunctions do they take it out and repair it? If a shock absorber fails, etc. etc. The labor to repair a single item at a time would be very cost prohibitive. It's a lot more cost effective to take 100 or 500 failed
...Show more

That is an excellent analogy. The other challenge is that increasingly with microelectronics it's sometimes not practical to repair them. People seem to think that because Profoto strobes are made to stand up to rigors of professional use that applies to everything they make. There's a reason why the Air triggers come with soft bags to carry them - they're not designed to be thrown around and shoved into hotshoes, and Profoto isn't liable for what increasingly in this thread sounds like user error.

Also just because a consumer feels that a product can be repaired, doesn't mean he or she knows better than the actual service technicians that repair them every day.



Jul 08, 2020 at 08:23 AM
Tartine
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Beni wrote:
Slight lack of reading comprehension? They are refusing to fix it and instead offering a discount on a new model. Our studio's moved on from profoto a while back due to their current business model practices and this does nothing to persuade me that we made a bad decision. Pro's buy into a system not just for features but also service. Profoto have been abandoning the high end pro market for a while now and this is just another symptom of the malaise.


The OP's overdramatic posting about how a single poorly designed shoe (that Profoto can't control) on a remote means the entire system is a dud, made me read/perceive his post differently. Why create a new account just to complain? There's no discussion here, just a guy on the internet yelling "I wanted it fixed, but they said it's broken". Well, I generally trust profoto when they say that, and the cost differential between a new discounted one that they're graciously offering is what like $50 between the repair? Doesn't make sense.



Jul 08, 2020 at 08:27 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Not doing repairs seems to be common practice in the current world, and often "repair" involves replacing all the internals in one piece and mounting it inside the old chassis. So one shouldn't wonder if the cost is high. Replacing some pins might be done by replacing the whole electronics of the unit and taking the unit apart and putting the new parts in might well increase the cost beyond that of the original. Repair personnel typically have to be able to perform any type of repair on any product so it's not as effective as on the factory's manufacturing line where one person assembles one device time and time again.



Jul 08, 2020 at 08:54 AM
PCN2039
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Tartine,

I would say you are probably more overdramatic and worked up about this situation without the benefit of even reading the title of the thread or original post. You might be even more upset than I am.

As Beni pointed out in his comment: ""Slight lack of reading comprehension? They are refusing to fix it and instead offering a discount on a new model."

I also never said the "entire system is a dud". My issue is with Profoto refusing to repair the device and giving different reasons(no parts available, then.... cost prohibitive).

"The OP's overdramatic posting about how a single poorly designed shoe (that Profoto can't control) on a remote means the entire system is a dud, made me read/perceive his post differently."

So you "read/perceive" my post "differently" because of something I didn't say? You didn't even read the topic of the post.

I also never stated the cost of the repair since they never offered to repair it. Do you have inside knowledge of Profoto repair prices since you state their replacement offer was "like $50 between the repair?

"Why create a new account just to complain? There's no discussion here, just a guy on the internet yelling "I wanted it fixed, but they said it's broken"

Once again I quote Beni: "Slight lack of reading comprehension? They are refusing to fix it and instead offering a discount on a new model."

And yes, there is a discussion here from people who have read and responded thoughtfully.



Tartine wrote:
The OP's overdramatic posting about how a single poorly designed shoe (that Profoto can't control) on a remote means the entire system is a dud, made me read/perceive his post differently. Why create a new account just to complain? There's no discussion here, just a guy on the internet yelling "I wanted it fixed, but they said it's broken". Well, I generally trust profoto when they say that, and the cost differential between a new discounted one that they're graciously offering is what like $50 between the repair? Doesn't make sense.




Edited on Jul 08, 2020 at 09:47 AM · View previous versions



Jul 08, 2020 at 09:29 AM
PCN2039
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


"People seem to think that because Profoto strobes are made to stand up to rigors of professional use that applies to everything they make."

Air triggers are "not designed" to be "shoved into hotshoes"?

"Profoto isn't liable for what increasingly in this thread sounds like user error."

"just because a consumer feels that a product can be repaired, doesn't mean he or she knows better than the actual service technicians that repair them every day"

You really made me smile with these these comments.


Tartine wrote:
[
People seem to think that because Profoto strobes are made to stand up to rigors of professional use that applies to everything they make. There's a reason why the Air triggers come with soft bags to carry them - they're not designed to be thrown around and shoved into hotshoes, and Profoto isn't liable for what increasingly in this thread sounds like user error.

Also just because a consumer feels that a product can be repaired, doesn't mean he or she knows better than the actual service technicians that repair them every day.





Jul 08, 2020 at 09:38 AM
PCN2039
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Hi,

Profoto tech originally stated in the repair quote/work order that they do not have the spare parts to repair the remote.

Has anyone had their Air Remote TTL-N/S/C hotshoe repaired? I was willing to wait for spare parts due to lockdown but they then said it was cost prohibitive.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
Not doing repairs seems to be common practice in the current world, and often "repair" involves replacing all the internals in one piece and mounting it inside the old chassis. So one shouldn't wonder if the cost is high. Replacing some pins might be done by replacing the whole electronics of the unit and taking the unit apart and putting the new parts in might well increase the cost beyond that of the original. Repair personnel typically have to be able to perform any type of repair on any product so it's not as effective as on the factory's manufacturing
...Show more




Jul 08, 2020 at 09:42 AM
stevesanacore
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


I can understand it not being repairable as it's probably the bottom half of the plastic housing hard wired internally to the circuit board that needed replacement, (just an educated guess). Many electronic parts these days are not designed to be repaired as the cost to stock the spare parts and the labor to rebuild them isn't worth it. They probably just replace them for any warranty or out of warranty repairs and toss the bad one. $350 to replace a TTL remote with a new warranty is not unreasonable IMO.

From Canon to Nikon to Sony other than the LED issue with one of them, my Profoto remotes always worked without issue. I was overjoyed to be rid of terrible Pocket Wizards I was depending on previously. I had a set of twenty of them hoping ten would work when I got to my location. In comparison the Profoto remotes have been bullet proof.

Actually thinking back to those days, Mac Group who distributed and serviced Pocket Wizards did the same thing to me when I had broken radios, Offered me replacements at a discount which I took them up on a few times. Non repairable was always their response.

Use what you want but in this case I don't think Profoto was unreasonable.




Jul 08, 2020 at 04:52 PM
PCN2039
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


"$350 to replace a TTL remote with a new warranty is not unreasonable IMO. "

I guess that a $350 replacement instead of a repair is "not unreasonable" in Profoto country.

We can speculate all day about the degree of difficulty is repairing these items and the rocket science involved. Simple fact is I have not had any Nikon, Canon, Sony repair center engineer stumped at a hotshoe repair.

" In comparison the Profoto remotes have been bullet proof. "

I think this is an often overused word. Superman is bulletproof. The Profoto is certainly not.



stevesanacore wrote:
I can understand it not being repairable as it's probably the bottom half of the plastic housing hard wired internally to the circuit board that needed replacement, (just an educated guess). Many electronic parts these days are not designed to be repaired as the cost to stock the spare parts and the labor to rebuild them isn't worth it. They probably just replace them for any warranty or out of warranty repairs and toss the bad one. $350 to replace a TTL remote with a new warranty is not unreasonable IMO.

From Canon to Nikon to Sony other than the
...Show more




Jul 08, 2020 at 07:57 PM
 


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Tartine
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


PCN2039 wrote:
"People seem to think that because Profoto strobes are made to stand up to rigors of professional use that applies to everything they make."

Air triggers are "not designed" to be "shoved into hotshoes"?

"Profoto isn't liable for what increasingly in this thread sounds like user error."

"just because a consumer feels that a product can be repaired, doesn't mean he or she knows better than the actual service technicians that repair them every day"

You really made me smile with these these comments.




This isn't a conversation. You're not trying to learn anything or have a discussion. You're just whining constantly about how you're right and how outraged you are that Profoto doesn't accept your opinion on whether a part can be replaced. Grow up and buy a new trigger or use a system that is less expensive. No one is forcing you to use profoto.



Jul 08, 2020 at 09:00 PM
PCN2039
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


As Beni observed pointed out: "Slight lack of reading comprehension? They are refusing to fix it and instead offering a discount on a new model."

You expected to have a conversation when you didn't even read the actual title of the post and then made baseless arguments based on your "Slight lack of reading comprehension".


Tartine wrote:
This isn't a conversation. You're not trying to learn anything or have a discussion. You're just whining constantly about how you're right and how outraged you are that Profoto doesn't accept your opinion on whether a part can be replaced. Grow up and buy a new trigger or use a system that is less expensive. No one is forcing you to use profoto.





Jul 08, 2020 at 09:12 PM
PCN2039
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Using this reasoning: would you feel the same way if your laptop, camera, or lenses had to be replaced every time a button/key/trackpad/zoom ring malfunctioned just so you could spare the repair technicians.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
Not doing repairs seems to be common practice in the current world, and often "repair" involves replacing all the internals in one piece and mounting it inside the old chassis. So one shouldn't wonder if the cost is high. Replacing some pins might be done by replacing the whole electronics of the unit and taking the unit apart and putting the new parts in might well increase the cost beyond that of the original. Repair personnel typically have to be able to perform any type of repair on any product so it's not as effective as on the factory's manufacturing
...Show more




Jul 08, 2020 at 09:17 PM
leethecam
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Tartine wrote:
This isn't a conversation. You're not trying to learn anything or have a discussion. You're just whining constantly about how you're right and how outraged you are that Profoto doesn't accept your opinion on whether a part can be replaced. Grow up and buy a new trigger or use a system that is less expensive. No one is forcing you to use profoto.


mmm... It's very easy to spend other peoples' money isn't it. And seriously - buying a whole new system is your suggestion as to a solution?

I would be equally aggrieved if I discovered something similar. And we don't often find these issues until well immersed into a brand.

Things break, and manufacturers should allow for this in their design. To have a design where something is completely non-repairable is unacceptable for something like a remote. And for the cost of the Profoto remote, we should be looking at a modular design internally that allows this.

But alas Profoto is often unhelpful. I discovered this when I was deep into their ecosystem. Sure their gear is great, but their after service is less than stellar in many cases. Fortunately in London there is a marvellous independent repair company to turn to.

When I wanted to change my D1 1000W strobe to being a 500W strobe, (long story but it made sense), Profoto told me it was impossible. Luminary Lighting in London did the modification as an overnight job and didn't even charge me. Turns out the mod is extremely easy.

When I saw a Profoto part at an exhibition, (something to screw to the wall to store softboxes already set up), Profoto told me repeatedly that no such part existed. After pressing them on two occasions, they finally looked again and said oops - we've found it. After 3 weeks of waiting I'm still waiting on a suggestion from them as to why some of my strobes are not remembering power settings when switched off. Years ago when I had stability issues, Profoto took more than 4 weeks to offer any solution so I turned to my service guys who offered me a solution over the phone. (Profoto still to get back to me on this one - 2 yrs and counting...)

Not everything has to be a discussion. Sometimes it is useful to hear when a manufacturer falls short. It helps keep them on their toes if they think their market place has concerns.

But Tartine, in line with your suggestion - if you don't like the posts here, visit another forum. No one is forcing you to read them.



Jul 09, 2020 at 01:28 AM
Beni
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Tartine wrote:
The OP's overdramatic posting about how a single poorly designed shoe (that Profoto can't control) on a remote means the entire system is a dud, made me read/perceive his post differently. Why create a new account just to complain? There's no discussion here, just a guy on the internet yelling "I wanted it fixed, but they said it's broken". Well, I generally trust profoto when they say that, and the cost differential between a new discounted one that they're graciously offering is what like $50 between the repair? Doesn't make sense.


You were wrong. You accused the OP based on your incorrect or simple lack of reading what he wrote. He cannot be blamed for you 'perceiving' his post other than what it actually said. You owe him an apology and I would suggest some introspection before sharing your opinion further either here or anywhere else on the forum if your responses are to be based on your creative perceptions of a post rather than its actual contents.



Jul 09, 2020 at 04:53 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


PCN2039 wrote:
Using this reasoning: would you feel the same way if your laptop, camera, or lenses had to be replaced every time a button/key/trackpad/zoom ring malfunctioned just so you could spare the repair technicians.


I value products that are repairable, and have gotten excellent service from Nikon and Elinchrom.

Nikon sometimes cover the cost of repairs even when the product is out of warranty, and I've been very happy with the service provided overall. I do have insurance which means that usually I don't have to pay more than 150 even when there is a larger charge to the repairs, however if the product is old and damage is extensive then the coverage can be less.

With Elinchrom, one of my Quadra batteries went dark and I contacted Elinchrom's importer and they told me to bring it in. They used a newer battery generator to revive the battery. It took an hour of the service guy's time, and he charged nothing. In fact he kept talking to me all that time and we discussed modifiers, etc.

However, service is dependent on the mother company and local practices, I wouldn't be able to say what kind of service Elinchrom have in your country. I don't how they would react to a broken transmitter, as I haven't had that kind of a problem.

I suspect Profoto is a bit like Porsche in that you can buy it if you are wealthy enough so that if there is damage you don't mind the cost since the cost would not affect your life. The rest of us buy less expensive brands. ;-) (I get it, Profoto make very nice gear.)



Jul 09, 2020 at 06:23 AM
rico
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Profoto does not manufacture every product they sell, and never did. These Air controllers in particular are probably sourced from China and cost $50 tops. I recognize such items aren't worth labor-intensive attention when they break, but Profoto can perform the "repair" by throwing them in the trash, charging you $100 for a replacement, and racking up the kudos.


Jul 09, 2020 at 02:43 PM
PCN2039
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Thanks, Beni. I won't be holding my breath waiting for an apology from Tartine. I'm not sure what stake he/she has in defending Profoto to the point where he/she is basing their argument on what they perceived I wrote.

Beni wrote:
You were wrong. You accused the OP based on your incorrect or simple lack of reading what he wrote. He cannot be blamed for you 'perceiving' his post other than what it actually said. You owe him an apology and I would suggest some introspection before sharing your opinion further either here or anywhere else on the forum if your responses are to be based on your creative perceptions of a post rather than its actual contents.





Jul 10, 2020 at 08:41 PM
PCN2039
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


Yes, their profit margin is probably quite generous on these units. I read on the other thread on this forum that Adorama even replaced out of warranty items for a Flashpoint user. Considering the profit margin is probably less with Godox this makes Profitos cash grab on this repair look even worse. In the long run they will lose more as I am not investing another penny in their system.

rico wrote:
Profoto does not manufacture every product they sell, and never did. These Air controllers in particular are probably sourced from China and cost $50 tops. I recognize such items aren't worth labor-intensive attention when they break, but Profoto can perform the "repair" by throwing them in the trash, charging you $100 for a replacement, and racking up the kudos.





Jul 10, 2020 at 08:45 PM
Simon Barker
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Warning: Profoto will not fix Air Remote hot shoe


leethecam wrote:
I've found that its customer service is somewhat lacking in the UK and problems I've had or queries I've made have been sorted by an independent repair company in London, (Luminary Lighting), rather than Profoto.


Profoto doesn't repair anything, they authorise third parties to repair their gear like Luminary Lighting or Fixation in the UK, they're not exactly unique in this regard, see what your options are for Broncolor in the UK but my point being some of the most knowledgeable people you can get access to are to be found outside Profoto.

leethecam wrote:
Of late Profoto seem to have been concentrating on a less pro market, with products that suit i-Phone users. Even their newer strobes leave the user without ability to replace tubes and so needing costly and slow servicing where other manufacturers allow user replacement.


As I keep saying, Profoto can't compete with Godox on price and (as far as us end users are concerned) there's not much of a difference in the general technical ability of their products. So taking that into consideration what should Profoto do to expand sales? I think they've saturated their core market so their only choice is to look for new ones.

leethecam wrote:
I think Profoto have become complacent. They're forgetting their pro roots, and all that entails.


Perhaps but what can they really do? They could try and fight on price but it is a battle they're going to lose eventually, Godox used to make junk but technically they're close enough for most people for it to not matter now and they've been making some nice original products like the AD200 no one else had thought to.

Tough times for traditional brands.



Jul 12, 2020 at 09:03 PM
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