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Archive 2020 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

chez
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

shadow9d9 wrote:
Can't really be compared to Sigma. The 2mm here makes a difference. Just my opinion.

I think it can, especially for those that don't shoot at 12mm much. If the Sigma is better between 14-24 and you shoot mostly at those focal lengths...then the comparison is very real.

Jul 07, 2020 at 07:23 PM

nhsonyshooter
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

pdmphoto wrote:
Since when isn't the Sigma 14-24 no longer state of the art? The Sigma is the proven standard, that has set the bar higher. Real user results are needed before that will change.

The "Why would anyone own a 14-24 to begin with?" seems like snobbery to me. 16-35 gm instead? Sharpness and centration across the focal length are all over the place, too copy dependent. Even the best copies have too much astigmatism compared to the Sigma at the same focal lengths, and 25-35 is nothing to brag about. 35mm can be downright poor.

Couldn't have said it better myself! Well done.

Jul 07, 2020 at 07:37 PM

ftllens
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

I think if you prefer all-in-one solution the 1224 GM is better than the sigma (vs carrying one wider with the sigma so you eliminate lens swap), though I think most people will have this perma-mounted on one body and another zoom on another one. I think this + A7R4 would be a beast travel solution.

I bet this is gonna be like $2699 EDU pricing on BH anyway, and lightly used one will be like 2000ish. Thatd be 70-200/100-400 price range and wide angles are harder to design than telephotos. Is everyone forgetting what Nikon used to charge for their 13mm lol

But if you don't need the 12 extra FOV, then yeah Sigma is no brainer. I do like it for keystoning though.

Jul 07, 2020 at 07:39 PM

BenUES
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

For me this ultimately comes down to whether 2mm on the wide end is worth the extra $1600 (!!) over the Sigma lens. In my case, absolutely not; that money can be far better spent on another lens or even two.

Jul 07, 2020 at 09:54 PM

Justin Stone
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Like you, I think this lens represents the potential for a very capable jack of all trades ultra wide—we need testing to confirm of course. For that reason, (assuming it is really good) I don’t think we’ll see a lot of used lenses hitting the boards anytime soon as it represents a “final destination” lens that not that many people are going to be buying in the first place.

Could be wrong. But I think it would be years before the BuySell board would deliver $2000 samples of this lens. The Hypothetical person selling the lens is a hobbyist with deep pockets and is fed up with the weight (which isn’t that extreme To begin with) and wanting a filter thread. There are a lot of ultra wide options with e mount so it’s possible there will be some, but I doubt very many.
ftllens wrote:
I think if you prefer all-in-one solution the 1224 GM is better than the sigma (vs carrying one wider with the sigma so you eliminate lens swap), though I think most people will have this perma-mounted on one body and another zoom on another one. I think this + A7R4 would be a beast travel solution.

I bet this is gonna be like $2699 EDU pricing on BH anyway, and lightly used one will be like 2000ish. Thatd be 70-200/100-400 price range and wide angles are harder to design than telephotos. Is everyone forgetting what Nikon used to charge for their...Show more →

Jul 07, 2020 at 10:06 PM

chez
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Justin Stone wrote:
Like you, I think this lens represents the potential for a very capable jack of all trades ultra wide—we need testing to confirm of course. For that reason, (assuming it is really good) I don’t think we’ll see a lot of used lenses hitting the boards anytime soon as it represents a “final destination” lens that not that many people are going to be buying in the first place.

Could be wrong. But I think it would be years before the BuySell board would deliver $2000 samples of this lens. The Hypothetical person selling the lens is a hobbyist...Show more →

There are a lot of people that get caught up in the hype and buy a lens only later to determine the lens is not for them. I've seen plenty of Voight 40 1.2, Sony 135 GM and even lately Sony 24 1.4. The going price might prevent some of this impulse buys...but I'm sure we'll see some of it occurring.

Jul 07, 2020 at 10:16 PM

shadow9d9
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

BenUES wrote:
I'm excited about new technology too, but I don't see the utility in criticizing people who are wary about paying for a lens that costs as much as a decent used car. Especially during a global economic collapse! It strikes me as poor timing to release a lens like this right now. I know you can't speed up development of technology but if I were Sony's marketing team, I think it would be extremely tough to sell this lens to all but those who are most shielded from what's going on around us.

The US has 1/4 of the entire world's virus. Japan, Sk, Canada, most of Europe, China are beginning to go back to normal. Why should a Japanese country withhold release when their own country is doing absolutely fine? It isn't their fault that things are out of control in the single country-the US.

So they should keep warehouses full of lenses that have been produced over many months unsold because of one country? Let them sell to anyone who will buy. Canada's government is paying every citizen 2k a month. UK is paying 80% of everyone's salary. And of course, taiwan, japan, and sk have all but eradicated the virus. As have many others. The world doesn't revolve around the US and shouldn't be forced to put everything on hold for a single country.

Oh, and I'm from the US and I'm buying the lens.

Jul 07, 2020 at 10:19 PM

Dustin Gent
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

trstahly wrote:
This discussion is silly and has drifted into people comparing a similar but lesser lens being a Sigma 14-24 to a very exciting and state-of-the-art Sony 12-24 2.8 GM zoom. Sigma does not make a 12-24 lens so end of story.

Why would anyone own a 14-24 to begin with? How many "serious" Sony shooters do not already own a far more useful 16-35 GM?

There are real differences between 12mm and 14mm and any UWA shooter understands this. 12mm is an entirely different perspective than 14mm not to mention benefits in post for architecture and other.

I find most threads involving Sigma...Show more →
pdmphoto wrote:
Since when isn't the Sigma 14-24 no longer state of the art? The Sigma is the proven standard, that has set the bar higher. Real user results are needed before that will change.

The "Why would anyone own a 14-24 to begin with?" seems like snobbery to me. 16-35 gm instead? Sharpness and centration across the focal length are all over the place, too copy dependent. Even the best copies have too much astigmatism compared to the Sigma at the same focal lengths, and 25-35 is nothing to brag about. 35mm can be downright poor.

pdmphoto, i agree with you! There are "photographers" out there that buy the best, and think it makes them better; but the honest truth is that the gear exceeds their ability. I haven't even come close to master my gear to be honest (or outgrow it, if you will) Personally I am fairly certain that, other than the extra 2mm, I would get the same results with either the Sony lens or the sigma. My Nikon 14-24 was phenomenal, and it still is a fantastic lens.

I am not saying that about the person who thinks the Sigma is trash. But I don't shoot brick walls. I am just a guy that drives sometimes 7-8 hours to a location, then hikes another 10 miles to a location and has fun. And the results I have gotten with my lowly A7r3 and waste of time Sigma 14-24 to be amazing.

Edited on Jul 07, 2020 at 10:44 PM · View previous versions

Jul 07, 2020 at 10:43 PM

BenUES
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

shadow9d9 wrote:
The US has 1/4 of the entire world's virus. Japan, Sk, Canada, most of Europe, China are beginning to go back to normal. Why should a Japanese country withhold release when their own country is doing absolutely fine? It isn't their fault that things are out of control in the single country-the US.

So they should keep warehouses full of lenses that have been produced over many months unsold because of one country? Let them sell to anyone who will buy. Canada's government is paying every citizen 2k a month. UK is paying 80% of everyone's salary. And of course,...Show more →

My point is not about coronavirus caseload. It's about the economic fallout of the pandemic, which is hurting every nation, rich or poor. This is not the time nor place for this discussion but the reason governments are bankrolling salaries of businesses and establishing UBI is because people are at risk of financial collapse. Everything doesn't revolve around the US, of course, but no reasonable argument can be made that the rest of the developed world successfully eradicated the virus and recovered the health of its economy. The world over is tightening purse strings and selling non-essentials until better days come, and in that environment it will be difficult to sell this very expensive lens to any of the thousands of potential buyers who've been hit by the consequences of purposefully locking down economies.

Jul 07, 2020 at 10:44 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Dustin Gent wrote:
pdmphoto, i agree with you! There are "photographers" out there that buy the best, and think it makes them better; but the honest truth is that the gear exceeds their ability. I haven't even come close to master my gear to be honest (or outgrow it, if you will) Personally I am fairly certain that, other than the extra 2mm, I would get the same results with either the Sony lens or the sigma. My Nikon 14-24 was phenomenal, and it still is a fantastic lens.

I am not saying that about the person who thinks the Sigma is...Show more →

The Sigma 14-24/2.8 will never be trash. I could be wrong but from my experience testing many GM lenses and the Sigma zoom, I have the feeling that the new Sony zoom won't match the Sigma at the wider FLs.
If it does, Sony should really be proud of this one.

Jul 07, 2020 at 10:57 PM

ajamils
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Sony looks like an amazing lens but definitely not for me. Neither need anything that wide.... nor have a wide enough bank account to pay for it

Jul 07, 2020 at 11:43 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Like I said at the beginning of this thread, good luck versus the Sigma 14-24. If this lens is better in the 14-24 range, you’re going to need very high res sensor/heavy crops to see it. And I doubt there’s a ton of demand to the tune of an extra 1.8K for that 12 & 13mm

I get the 12 vs. 14mm, but I don’t really feel like this was a hole Sony needed to fill. I (and many others) would like a 15/2 GM or a nice 28mm option. A wide relatively compact 10 or 12mm would have been more enticing to me as well.

It’s always good to have options though, and I am sure some people will appreciate this lens. I am always interested in contrast and colors, and good work on electronic variable ND filters Sony.

Maybe Sony will release a 35mm f1.1 lens and charge 2.5x the Sigma 35 1.2 😂

Edited on Jul 08, 2020 at 01:59 AM · View previous versions

Jul 08, 2020 at 12:10 AM

esanchez
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

YouTube is flooded with video reviews of this lens. What does Sony do with all those returned lenses? Destroys them, sells them as used?

Jul 08, 2020 at 12:21 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

It's ironic that if you really love 12mm and want ultimate resolution/contrast, you have to go with a zoom instead of a prime lens.
Some prime lenses like the Voigtlander 12/5.6 III will perform better in other aspects (sunstar definition, flare resistance) but can't match the resolution of any of the Sony ultra wide zooms away from the center area even at smaller apertures.

Jul 08, 2020 at 12:21 AM

DavidBM
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's ironic that if you really love 12mm and want ultimate resolution/contrast, you have to go with a zoom instead of a prime lens.
Some prime lenses like the Voigtlander 12/5.6 III will perform better in other aspects (sunstar definition, flare resistance) but can't match the resolution of any of the Sony ultra wide zooms away from the center area even at smaller apertures.

On thing which very slightly depresses me is that I notice this lens has four independent focus motors, which means four focus groups moving independently, and in any pattern the firmware dictates. That's floating elements on complete steroids.

Well that's the good news. But making the kind of nice mechanical lens of the sort I love and I think you do to you just can't complete with that sort of tech. So we may have to get used to this phenomenon of fancy zooms being better, especially at FLs where optimisation changes over the focus distance the way it seems to with wides.

Jul 08, 2020 at 12:34 AM

DavidBM
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

nehemiahphoto wrote:
Like I said at the beginning of this thread, good luck versus the Sigma 14-24. If this lens is better in the 14-24 range, you’re going to need very high res sensor/heavy crops to see it. And I doubt there’s a ton of demand to the tune of an extra 1.8K for that 10-12mm.

I get the 10 vs. 12mm, but I don’t really feel like this was a hole Sony needed to fill. I (and many others) would like a 15/2 GM or a nice 28mm option. A wide relatively compact 10 or 12mm would have been more enticing to...Show more →

I'm agree that even if the Sony is measurably better than the Sigma, it won't be visibly better.
And personally I wouldn't want 12mm; but hell, personally I don't want f2.8 at this FL either.

But I totally see why Sony have released it. They need to stake out the premium end of the market which is where the $$ are; it's important - even if sales of this lens don't justify it, though I think they might - to have a lens which can be spruiked as "better" than the Sigma - and being a fair bit wider and having even better looking MTF does that for them. It's about protecting the GM brand.

So yeah, a 1.1/35 (1.2/28?) for 2.5x Sigma is is not out of the question!

Jul 08, 2020 at 12:39 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

DavidBM wrote:
I'm agree that even if the Sony is measurably better than the Sigma, it won't be visibly better.
And personally I wouldn't want 12mm; but hell, personally I don't want f2.8 at this FL either.

But I totally see why Sony have released it. They need to stake out the premium end of the market which is where the $$ are; it's important - even if sales of this lens don't justify it, though I think they might - to have a lens which can be spruiked as "better" than the Sigma - and being a fair bit wider and having...Show more →

Yeah, I get it. But I don’t like it! I’d love to see the lenses I listed, or a host of other products, like a compact RF ff body, an RX1r3, premium compact f1.8/2 primes, medium format fixed lens etc.

And thus far, the GM’s have been pretty impeccable, except I was unimpressed by the GM 70-200. Not at all a bad lens, but doesn’t strike me as special at it’s tier.

Jul 08, 2020 at 12:54 AM

DavidBM
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

nehemiahphoto wrote:
Yeah, I get it. But I don’t like it! I’d love to see the lenses I listed, or a host of other products, like a compact RF ff body, an RX1r3, premium compact f1.8/2 primes, medium format fixed lens etc.

And thus far, the GM’s have been pretty impeccable, except I was unimpressed by the GM 70-200. Not at all a bad lens, but doesn’t strike me as special at it’s tier.

Yes, that's my impression too about the GMs. Roger Circala seems to think the issue there was they just couldn't manufacture the design to its potential (which means maybe there are some copies out there? But I wouldn't try to play that golden copy game...)

We seem to agree on dream products. The compact RF style ff body might come in a couple of months if the chatter is correct. That would be a likely purchase for me, especially if it has an EVF, for hiking purposes.

Jul 08, 2020 at 01:03 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

DavidBM wrote:
Yes, that's my impression too about the GMs. Roger Circala seems to think the issue there was they just couldn't manufacture the design to its potential (which means maybe there are some copies out there? But I wouldn't try to play that golden copy game...)

We seem to agree on dream products. The compact RF style ff body might come in a couple of months if the chatter is correct. That would be a likely purchase for me, especially if it has an EVF, for hiking purposes.

Did he find any excellent copies? Seems like other 70-200 2.8 from Canon and Nikon are regarded better (I haven’t used them), I wonder why Sony couldn’t nail it.

Jul 08, 2020 at 01:17 AM

Holger
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

nehemiahphoto wrote:
Like I said at the beginning of this thread, good luck versus the Sigma 14-24. If this lens is better in the 14-24 range, you’re going to need very high res sensor/heavy crops to see it. And I doubt there’s a ton of demand to the tune of an extra 1.8K for that 10-12mm.

I get the 10 vs. 12mm, but I don’t really feel like this was a hole Sony needed to fill. I (and many others) would like a 15/2 GM or a nice 28mm option. A wide relatively compact 10 or 12mm would have been more enticing to...Show more →

I am sure Sony did a market query/analysis before developing the lens. Priorities differ between people. Yours aren't mine. We don't know exactly as to why the price is higher by this factor (but still comparable to the Canon 11-24/4), although fluorine coating, the special lens elements etc. will add up costs. We don't know what extra development effort is required to get the 12 vs. 14mm to a similar performance. The diameter is clearly different and developing the largest XA element ever made is not a simple task.
Being engineer tells me, it might not be that easy as many here think it to be. Therefore, I can't understand that so many here are generalising their priorities or think they can do a simple cost analysis without having the data.

Jul 08, 2020 at 01:32 AM

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