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Archive 2020 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Bob_S
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p.11 #1 · p.11 #1 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Fred Miranda wrote:
The good news is that most 'reviewers' are saying 24mm is a strong focal length with this zoom. However, the Sigma 14-24/2.8 is also great at 24mm. (Just as good as my FE 24/1.4 GM at f/5.6)

I have the Voigtlander 12/5.6 + Sigma 14-24/2.8. The former does not help much with filters, so I was wondering if I could replace both lenses with the new GM. It would save me about 400g in weight and give me a much stronger and faster 12mm but it will cost way more. I will find out more when I do when I...Show more →

Is there a comparison between the 12-24 f4G and f2.8GM that demonstrates the flare characteristics?

I would pay more for significantly better flare control on my f4G.

I need 12mm so the Sigma isn't anything I want.

Jul 13, 2020 at 11:06 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.11 #2 · p.11 #2 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Bob_S wrote:
Is there a comparison between the 12-24 f4G and f2.8GM that demonstrates the flare characteristics?

I would pay more for significantly better flare control on my f4G.

I need 12mm so the Sigma isn't anything I want.

I've wondered about this as well Bob.

The FE 12-24/4G was my main ultra wide lens for a while and I was shocked by its resolution and contrast. My main negative was flare resistance, mainly ghosting, which I had to remove from my backlit images. Will the FE 12-24/2.8 GM have better flare resistance? I don't know because the front element is huge but flare control depends on the optical design as well.

Ideally it would be great to test all three lenses size by side.

The Voigtlander 12/5.6 III has the best flare resistance for this focal length but can't match the FE 12-24/4G's resolution and contrast especially away from center.
All lenses have compromises.

Jul 14, 2020 at 12:06 AM

Holger
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p.11 #3 · p.11 #3 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Bob_S wrote:
Is there a comparison between the 12-24 f4G and f2.8GM that demonstrates the flare characteristics?

I would pay more for significantly better flare control on my f4G.

I need 12mm so the Sigma isn't anything I want.
This review is very positive about the flare performance of the new GM
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/redefining-lens-clarity--andy-mann-test-drives-the-new-12-24mm-f-2-8-g-master/

Jul 14, 2020 at 01:08 AM

pdmphoto
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p.11 #4 · p.11 #4 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Holger wrote:
This review is very positive about the flare performance of the new GM
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/redefining-lens-clarity--andy-mann-test-drives-the-new-12-24mm-f-2-8-g-master/

Flare resistance and ghosting are two separate matters. My Sony 12-24/4G wouldn't always flare in backlit pictures, but ghosting was present. When I first got the lens I was very happy to have a sharp and well centered copy across the focal length. After testing it more against other lenses in the same focal length I noticed the ghosting. It can appear to be poor contrast, but it really is ghosting filing in the shadows. One reason I like the Sigma 14-24 a lot is that has handles ghosting, as well as flare, very well for a zoom lens.

Jul 14, 2020 at 01:37 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.11 #5 · p.11 #5 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Holger wrote:
This review is very positive about the flare performance of the new GM
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/redefining-lens-clarity--andy-mann-test-drives-the-new-12-24mm-f-2-8-g-master/

Brand artisans or ambassadors are paid to post favorable reviews.
Personally, I do not put to too much trust in it. It's possible that the FE 12-24/2.8 GM has great flare resistance but I would not trust a photographer being paid by Sony to tell me that.

Jul 14, 2020 at 02:02 AM

Holger
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p.11 #6 · p.11 #6 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Fred Miranda wrote:
Brand artisans or ambassadors are paid to post favorable reviews.
Personally, I do not put to too much trust in it. It's possible that the FE 12-24/2.8 GM has great flare resistance but I would not trust a photographer being paid by Sony to tell me that.

You have a point, of course. Nevertheless, the many reviews available so far have quite a few images with the sun in the frame and there are hardly any artefacts wrt ghosting, flares etc. to see. Unless all of them posted only flare/ghosting-free images, this is a promising indication.

Jul 14, 2020 at 02:42 AM

Bob_S
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p.11 #7 · p.11 #7 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Holger wrote:
This review is very positive about the flare performance of the new GM
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/redefining-lens-clarity--andy-mann-test-drives-the-new-12-24mm-f-2-8-g-master/

Thanks anyway, but it's gotta be a side by side review.
I'm sure someone has reviewed them both side by side, but I cannot find it.

I don't need to read about how nice the 12-24GM is, I know Sony would have done a great job. I just need to know what I'm getting for the $2K changeover cost (and the extra weight/size in the bag).

Does the 77mm CPL push in trick work for the GM like it did for the G?

Jul 14, 2020 at 04:37 AM

Chris_88
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p.11 #8 · p.11 #8 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

I too would like to see a more detailed analysis of the flare performance at different FL and aperture combinations. The sunstars look OK-ish, but that can't be helped thanks to the 9-rounded aperture blades. Also, it would be nice to get a more objective opinion on whether this lens really is (almost) as good at the long end than it is at the wide end. The two 16-35's and the 24-70 2.8 all show that tendency. Given the price tag of that 12-24 GM, it would be nice, if Sony managed to achieve a more uniform high level performance from 12 to 24mm this time around.

Jul 14, 2020 at 07:23 AM

Matti6950
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p.11 #9 · p.11 #9 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

As an UWA lover this lens certainly makes me drool.

But it's kinda good i got the Sigma 14-24mm DG DN earlier. That lens is imo a masterpiece of a lens. I think the Sony will equal it (perhaps a notch less sharp at 24mm if reviews are to be believed), while offering 2mm extra. Especially the weight is impressive!

But since i have lot of costs at the house the Sigma was an incredible deal to go from Nikon to Sony, and honestly, every image i take with it wows me. And if i really need wider i could always use panorama. But yeah 12mm is special

But so is 14mm compared to Tamron 17mm.

I agree with pdmphoto that flare/ghosting is very good on Sigma, so is CA. The Sony has very low amount of CA, but there are traces of it in images if you look hard, Sigma has even less i think. Colours are also very good on Sigma (their Arneo coating seems to be nice improvement).

So yeah both are epic lenses from optical standpoint i'm sure. But with the price, the Sigma is even more brilliant (i think lot of people don't realize how few 1450€ is for sure an UWA masterpiece.

If you ever get it FredMiranda Curiuos to your testing

But it's fine if you don't either.

I checked some images on Sony 20mm F1.8 and that lens really is masterpiece. Very sharp even close to wide open in corner. I think Sony did some heavy research to improve UWA lenses, starting with 24mm GM (or perhaps 16-35mm gm). It's showing! No longer the soft corners even at f9 like at DSLR lenses.

Jul 14, 2020 at 08:04 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.11 #10 · p.11 #10 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

For those who want the 12-24mm range, which one to get? f/2.8 or f/4?

The 12-24/4G is marvel for its resolution and contrast in a very small package.
I posted side by side comparisons vs many other lenses in 2017. Here is the link:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1498485

Jul 14, 2020 at 02:27 PM

Chris_88
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p.11 #11 · p.11 #11 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Fred Miranda wrote:
For those who want the 12-24mm range, which one to get? f/2.8 or f/4?

The 12-24/4G is marvel for its resolution and contrast in a very small package.
I posted side by side comparisons vs many other lenses in 2017. Here is the link:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1498485

Thanks, for posting this link again, Fred. I think plenty here (myself included) had forgotten how good a good copy of the 12-24 G was/is for resolution (with all the e-mount glass, we've become a bit spoiled, esp. to the early "which alt lens might work" days back in 2013/2014). I never considered buying the f4, because I didn't like the flare resistance and even though I hardly get to do any astro these days, f2.8 is nice to have just in case.

For me, the GM might be an option to reduce my kit on the wide end. However, given the lens' price, the question I want answers to is really whether this lens could replace several primes and the Sigma zoom, while ideally offering better flare and coma performance than the latter.

Jul 14, 2020 at 06:32 PM

GMPhotography
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p.11 #12 · p.11 #12 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

I’m not buying as I said earlier but watching this thread with great interest. You guys know I care about you but I would not just jump in bed with this just yet. I still think the Sigma 14-24 and a CV 12 might be the better option. I love love love 12mm but I’m very experienced with it and it’s a tough lens to control. But more than anything even as a wide lens whore I don’t use it that much. Love having it but do you need a 3 grand 12mm when a 1200 14-24 is killer good. Just wait till Fred tests this damn thing. You all know how I feel about reviews. I trust Fred and very little otherwise unless I’m testing too. So just hold on to your cash until we see some real tests. Need advice just ask. I’m still around but in a quiet zone now.

Yea and that 12 -24 F4 is still smoking hot

Jul 14, 2020 at 06:49 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.11 #13 · p.11 #13 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Chris_88 wrote:
Thanks, for posting this link again, Fred. I think plenty here (myself included) had forgotten how good a good copy of the 12-24 G was/is for resolution (with all the e-mount glass, we've become a bit spoiled, esp. to the early "which alt lens might work" days back in 2013/2014). I never considered buying the f4, because I didn't like the flare resistance and even though I hardly get to do any astro these days, f2.8 is nice to have just in case.

For me, the GM might be an option to reduce my kit on the wide end. However,...Show more →

---------------------------------------------

GMPhotography wrote:
I’m not buying as I said earlier but watching this thread with great interest. You guys know I care about you but I would not just jump in bed with this just yet. I still think the Sigma 14-24 and a CV 12 might be the better option. I love love love 12mm but I’m very experienced with it and it’s a tough lens to control. But more than anything even as a wide lens whore I don’t use it that much. Love having it but do you need a 3 grand 12mm when a 1200 14-24 is killer good....Show more →

The FE 12-24/4 G's advantage is price, size and weight. You still get great resolution/contrast from 12mm until 24mm in one lens...and yes, it's better than primes at the wide range.

The new 12-24/2.8 GM is a stop faster which makes it a better 'milky-way' lens. If that's your thing and you want 12mm, the choice is easy...and expensive.

There are other differences like the number of apertures blades (7 vs 9) which gives them a different sunstar shape. the GM will have 18 points and the G 14-point stars. From the images I've seen so far, the GM's sunstars seem to have better definition at small apertures but I have not seen any side by side comparison. There is also flare resistance to keep in mind which is still a question mark.

If you rarely shoot 12mm, the Sigma 14-24/2.8 DN DG is the lens to get for the IQ and price. It even performs even better than the G zoom but we are splitting hairs. They are both fantastic lenses. The Sigma's aperture has 11 blades which means 22-point sunstars.

The first question is: How much do you shoot at 12mm. Would you be happy with 14mm as your widest focal length? if the answer is yes, just get the Sigma 14-24/2.8 DN DG and you're done.

Here is sunstar example with the Sigma 14-24/2.8 @14mm:

(One separate exposure at f/18 just for the 22-point sunstar)

Jul 14, 2020 at 08:11 PM

GMPhotography
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p.11 #14 · p.11 #14 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Fred your last few lines was exactly where I was going. 12mm is a specialty and if it’s not going to set your hair on fire than look at the Sigma 14-24. All this hype and such is great but don’t get caught up in it. Figure out what works best for you. You can buy two lenses compared to this Sony 12-24.

I have too find my arch photo. I got lucky with snow on it. Great spot but became a tourist trap.

Jul 14, 2020 at 09:08 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.11 #15 · p.11 #15 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

GMPhotography wrote:
Fred your last few lines was exactly where I was going. 12mm is a specialty and if it’s not going to set your hair on fire than look at the Sigma 14-24. All this hype and such is great but don’t get caught up in it. Figure out what works best for you. You can buy two lenses compared to this Sony 12-24.

I have too find my arch photo. I got lucky with snow on it. Great spot but became a tourist trap.

10-12mm is nice to have as an option but most of my shooting is done above 14-15mm.

These two arches were at 10mm:

Jul 14, 2020 at 09:20 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.11 #16 · p.11 #16 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Another way to looks at this is in terms of value and convenience. Most of us think $3,000 is a lot of money for a zoom lens but consider that if you want to add a 12mm f/2.8 prime to complement your 14-24/2.8 lens, you would pay $950 for it. (Laowa 12mm f/2.8 Zero-D Lens for Sony E)

So, the Sigma 14-24/2.8 + Laowa 12/2.8 would cost $2,400 and you would have to carry 2 lenses for a total weight of 1,410 grams vs only 850 grams for the GM. On top of that the 12mm performance would not be as good as the GM.

The Voigtlander 10mm and 12mm are not cheap either and two stops slower at f/5.6.

Jul 14, 2020 at 09:31 PM

Justin Stone
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p.11 #17 · p.11 #17 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

That’s how I’m thinking about it. Except I’d probably still want a small light ultra wide even if I had the 12-24 for different applications and shooting priorities.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Another way to looks at this is in terms of value and convenience. Most of us think $3,000 is a lot of money for a zoom lens but consider that if you want to add a 12mm f/2.8 prime to complement your 14-24/2.8 lens, you would pay $950 for it. (Laowa 12mm f/2.8 Zero-D Lens for Sony E)

So, the Sigma 14-24/2.8 + Laowa 12/2.8 would cost $2,400 and you would have to carry 2 lenses for a total weight of 1,410 grams vs only 850 grams for the GM. On top of that the 12mm performance would not be...Show more →

Jul 14, 2020 at 09:52 PM

ftllens
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p.11 #18 · p.11 #18 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

Completely unrelated, but is it possible to make bulbous front filters for UWA stuff? lol

Jul 14, 2020 at 10:26 PM

Chris_88
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p.11 #19 · p.11 #19 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

GMPhotography wrote:
Just wait till Fred tests this damn thing. You all know how I feel about reviews. I trust Fred and very little otherwise unless I’m testing too. So just hold on to your cash until we see some real tests. Need advice just ask. I’m still around but in a quiet zone now.

This is my game plan, Guy. No intention of spending all that money based on "reviews" by artisans, brand ambassadors, whatever. I like Albert's (Dros) work a lot and I think he is honest and straight forward, but I'd like to see more systematic tests, which is what among other things, Fred excels at.

Fred Miranda wrote:
[The new 12-24/2.8 GM is a stop faster which makes it a better 'milky-way' lens. If that's your thing and you want 12mm, the choice is easy...and expensive.

There are other differences like the number of apertures blades (7 vs 9) which gives them a different sunstar shape. the GM will have 18 points and the G 14-point stars. From the images I've seen so far, the GM's sunstars seem to have better definition at small apertures but I have not seen any side by side comparison. There is also flare resistance to keep in mind which is still...Show more →

Impressive shots as always, Fred. The sunstars on the official Japanese Sony page for the GM looked OK (at f8), but as you mention flare performance is still a bit of a mystery.

May be it's because I've been using 14mm primes for years to do astro, but I don't find 14mm extremely wide (even though compositions at those FL's definitely need to be handled with care).

I kinda miss the option of going all the way to 12mm. The shot below was taken with the CV 12, when I still had that. I wasn't happy with the corner perfromance on the r3's 42MP sensor and since sold mine, but I end up missing the 12mm more than I thought I would.

Fred Miranda wrote:
Another way to looks at this is in terms of value and convenience. Most of us think $3,000 is a lot of money for a zoom lens but consider that if you want to add a 12mm f/2.8 prime to complement your 14-24/2.8 lens, you would pay $950 for it. (Laowa 12mm f/2.8 Zero-D Lens for Sony E)

So, the Sigma 14-24/2.8 + Laowa 12/2.8 would cost $2,400 and you would have to carry 2 lenses for a total weight of 1,410 grams vs only 850 grams for the GM. On top of that the 12mm performance would not be...Show more →

I was thinking along similar lines, Fred. I currently have too many ultra-wide/wide lenses. No matter what I will keep the Loxia 21, but if I sell all the others, the GM might be within reach as allow me to slim down my kit a bit.

Jul 15, 2020 at 08:31 AM

trstahly
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p.11 #20 · p.11 #20 · Now In-Stock: Sony FE 12-24mm f/2.8 GM ($2,998)

I ordered the GM and if it is about dollars which it is isn't its about a break even deal for me.

12-24 F4 which I already sold on ebay for $1,249
and can get another $1,500 for these two is so inclined so it is about a bust out and less stuff to mess with.
CV 21 Nokton 1.4
Sony 20 1.8 G

Frankly owning a 24GM and 16-35 GM I have not used the 20 at all and rarely use the 21 Nokton the way I see it is I am replacing three lenses with one for next to nothing.

Will I miss the Norton? Possibly but I will live. I will not miss the other two at all.

Jul 15, 2020 at 06:49 PM

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